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St. John's IceCaps 2012-13

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11-06-2012, 07:33 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
i would tend to agree with you, but, it certainly appears the icecaps' coaching staff and jets' management is not concerned at all about developing prospects. they want to win the calder cup, and that's their sole focus.
I won't put words in Jet's mouth but I don't think that's what he was thinking/saying...

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11-06-2012, 07:36 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Boreal View Post
I agree that Burmistrov's lack of goals is a little bit of an eyebrow raiser, but he is playing on a team that is struggling on offense more or less top to bottom. He is the leading scorer on the team, the last I checked. I'm not trying to brush any criticisms off, but to me him being the leading point getter on a currently below-average team is better then him being the 6th leading scorer on a high offensive output team. I'm just not overly concerned. We'll see how the season progresses.
i'd say the team is struggling to score largely because their most talented player has only 1 goal in 11 games. he's a big part of the problem, and he's responsible for his own production, or lackthereof.

but you're right not to be too concerned. bottom line is, he's not trying very hard. that's why he's not producing. and why would he try too hard? there's not much in it for him. he's just killing time until the lockout ends.

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11-06-2012, 07:50 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
i would tend to agree with you, but, it certainly appears the icecaps' coaching staff and jets' management is not concerned at all about developing prospects. they want to win the calder cup, and that's their sole focus.
Care to elaborate? Seems like Jets and Ice Caps management is following the balanced approach to me.

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11-06-2012, 08:00 PM
  #554
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People complaining about the Caps toughness need to try and remember that this team exists to develop players for the Winnipeg Jets. Sure you want to protect those investments, and have a winning product in St. John's to foster that attitude amongst the players and keep Caps fans happy, but you can't take your eyes off of the bigger prize.

Make deals to try and get the Ice Caps tougher, but don't in any way sacrifice the ultimate goal: NHL player development.
No one is saying that they shouldn't develope players.That's the league. We get that.

I don't just want Jaffray fighting considering what he has been through.Chariot,Sawada,Arsene, someone...

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11-06-2012, 08:28 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Care to elaborate? Seems like Jets and Ice Caps management is following the balanced approach to me.
the team is literally overloaded with veterans. so many that they can't dress them all every game. the older guys get all the "important" ice time, there's very little reliance on younger players.

in all interviews i've ever heard with mccambridge or heisinger since the team arrived in st.john's, i've never heard any mention of developing players. its strictly, 100% about winning the calder cup. heisinger never won a cup with the moose, and he desperately wants one with the icecaps. i honestly think the calder cup means more to him than the stanley cup at this point.

over time that might change, it should change, but but now i think he still think of himself as an ahl guy, and the calder cup is his focus.

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11-06-2012, 09:13 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
the team is literally overloaded with veterans. so many that they can't dress them all every game. the older guys get all the "important" ice time, there's very little reliance on younger players.

in all interviews i've ever heard with mccambridge or heisinger since the team arrived in st.john's, i've never heard any mention of developing players. its strictly, 100% about winning the calder cup. heisinger never won a cup with the moose, and he desperately wants one with the icecaps. i honestly think the calder cup means more to him than the stanley cup at this point.

over time that might change, it should change, but but now i think he still think of himself as an ahl guy, and the calder cup is his focus.
I can't speak to the ice time, but I wouldn't consider guys like O'Dell, Gregoire, Cormier, Telegin, Machacek, Klingberg, Postma, Chiarot, O'Neill, Redmond, Melchiori, or Pasquale to be vets. That's 12 guys on the roster that I wouldn't consider vets. Pretty balanced overall to me. An AHL team can't be made up entirely of vets, and I don't think any NHL team has enough prospects to ice an entire AHL roster either. Besides the prospects above, who do we have in the system that could even be added to the Ice Caps that isn't already there, and could handle the AHL?

As for interviews with McCambridge or Heisinger in St. Johns, I don't know what else they would be expected to say to the fans that they are hoping will pay money to go see the Ice Caps. Of course I would expect them to want to get a feeling in Ice Caps fans that the team had a chance to compete, they are trying to develop a fan base of Ice Cap fans after all.

It's petty obvious that Heisinger wanted to win an AHL championship with the Moose. Thinking that he would make moves to win an AHL championship with the Ice Caps makes perfect sense. Thinking that Heisinger, or anyone in Jets management would make moves that they felt were for the benefit of the Ice Caps, to the detriment of the Jets is fantasy to me. I don't believe that for a second.

It may also come down to differing opinions on just what is the best way to "develop prospects." I don't think making up an AHL squad almost entirely of prospects and having them get blown out night after night is an effective strategy. Having an AHL squad with some of your core prospects, surrounding them with talented AHL vets, and putting that team into playoff races, the playoffs, pressure situations, etc, seems like a better strategy to me. That's what I think Jets management is doing.

YMMV obviously.

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11-06-2012, 09:17 PM
  #557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
the team is literally overloaded with veterans. so many that they can't dress them all every game. the older guys get all the "important" ice time, there's very little reliance on younger players.

in all interviews i've ever heard with mccambridge or heisinger since the team arrived in st.john's, i've never heard any mention of developing players. its strictly, 100% about winning the calder cup. heisinger never won a cup with the moose, and he desperately wants one with the icecaps. i honestly think the calder cup means more to him than the stanley cup at this point.

over time that might change, it should change, but but now i think he still think of himself as an ahl guy, and the calder cup is his focus.
I know of one such interview that is against your opinion:



Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Apparently Zinger was on 1290 the other day.
He said they don’t want to keep youngsters in the press box. He also said they did that with Chiarot last year and it was a mistake.
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Yea I heard Zinger talk about this and he said if players have a fear of getting burried in the ECHL and not getting noticed Craig said the only way that would happen is if they don't product. He said it was important for a guy like Sol to get the minutes so that they could improve.

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11-06-2012, 09:51 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I can't speak to the ice time, but I wouldn't consider guys like O'Dell, Gregoire, Cormier, Telegin, Machacek, Klingberg, Postma, Chiarot, O'Neill, Redmond, Melchiori, or Pasquale to be vets. That's 12 guys on the roster that I wouldn't consider vets. Pretty balanced overall to me. An AHL team can't be made up entirely of vets, and I don't think any NHL team has enough prospects to ice an entire AHL roster either. Besides the prospects above, who do we have in the system that could even be added to the Ice Caps that isn't already there, and could handle the AHL?
i don't consider many of those guys to be "developing prospects". they're not veterans, but they're not developing prospects either. maybe two or three. as i said, the team is literally overloaded with veterans, and i have no doubt heisinger would add more if he could.

Quote:
As for interviews with McCambridge or Heisinger in St. Johns, I don't know what else they would be expected to say to the fans that they are hoping will pay money to go see the Ice Caps. Of course I would expect them to want to get a feeling in Ice Caps fans that the team had a chance to compete, they are trying to develop a fan base of Ice Cap fans after all.
i'd give the fans a little more credit than that. i would hope that mccambridge and heisinger are not simply saying what they think the fans want to hear. surely they aren't stupid enough to give different views to fans in st.john's and fans in winnipeg.

trying to develop a fan base in st. john's? they've had to do or say nothing to help develop the fans base in st.john's. its been sold out since day 1.

fact is, all they ever talk about is winning, and to this point their actions have reflected their words 100%.

Quote:
It's petty obvious that Heisinger wanted to win an AHL championship with the Moose. Thinking that he would make moves to win an AHL championship with the Ice Caps makes perfect sense. Thinking that Heisinger, or anyone in Jets management would make moves that they felt were for the benefit of the Ice Caps, to the detriment of the Jets is fantasy to me. I don't believe that for a second.
i think heisinger is absolutely focused only on an ahl championship. in his mind, he's strictly an ahl guy. i think he views this team as his baby, and he'll do whatever it takes to try to win.

Quote:
It may also come down to differing opinions on just what is the best way to "develop prospects." I don't think making up an AHL squad almost entirely of prospects and having them get blown out night after night is an effective strategy. Having an AHL squad with some of your core prospects, surrounding them with talented AHL vets, and putting that team into playoff races, the playoffs, pressure situations, etc, seems like a better strategy to me. That's what I think Jets management is doing.
i don't disagree with that at all. i think that's the only way to do it.

i just responded to the post from "jet" who wanted to remind people (i assume fans in st.john's) that the icecaps exist solely to develop players for the jets. i think that criticism (or reminder) should be aimed not at fans, but at the coaching staff and management, because they want to win the calder cup above all else.

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11-06-2012, 09:55 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I know of one such interview that is against your opinion:
fair enough. if he admitted to a mistake with a kid like chiarot last year, that's a change of tune.

over time, i suspect this focus on winning in the ahl will change. but right now i think its their entire focus, and player development is barely on their radar.

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11-06-2012, 10:13 PM
  #560
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Frankie, it's obvious that with this organization they want to win an AHL championship. And lets remember, the season is young and in my opinion, STJ will do well this year when its all said and done. At the end of the year they will be there. This reminds me of when everybody wanted to nail Wheeler to the coffin at the start of last year, and look how he turned out at the end of the year.

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11-06-2012, 10:36 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
fair enough. if he admitted to a mistake with a kid like chiarot last year, that's a change of tune.

over time, i suspect this focus on winning in the ahl will change. but right now i think its their entire focus, and player development is barely on their radar.
Even if that is true, that his desires are 100% AHL product and nothing but, he still has incentives to develop the younger players as they are going to be future IceCap players. I think very few Jets' prospects will not go through SJ.

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11-06-2012, 10:49 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
i don't consider many of those guys to be "developing prospects". they're not veterans, but they're not developing prospects either. maybe two or three. as i said, the team is literally overloaded with veterans, and i have no doubt heisinger would add more if he could.
We might be saying similar things then and just disagreeing on degree. I do think those guys are the Jets Prospects. Which is why I think the team is employing a balanced system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
i'd give the fans a little more credit than that. i would hope that mccambridge and heisinger are not simply saying what they think the fans want to hear. surely they aren't stupid enough to give different views to fans in st.john's and fans in winnipeg.

trying to develop a fan base in st. john's? they've had to do or say nothing to help develop the fans base in st.john's. its been sold out since day 1.

fact is, all they ever talk about is winning, and to this point their actions have reflected their words 100%.
I'm not implying that TNSE is being anything but truthful in their message to St. John's fans. What I am saying is that I don't expect an organization to say anything different to their fans regarding trying to win. I certainly wouldn't expect TNSE to tell the people in St. Johns that the Ice Caps will be lucky to ever win 10 games because we're only going to ice nothing but prospects. But I also don't see how developing prospects and trying to win have to be one or the other.

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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
i think heisinger is absolutely focused only on an ahl championship. in his mind, he's strictly an ahl guy. i think he views this team as his baby, and he'll do whatever it takes to try to win.
I agree that Heisinger would dearly love to win an AHL championship, but to think that he would do anything to win in the AHL to the detriment of the Jets makes little sense to me, and I have seen nothing from TNSE in any of their moves to indicate that they would act this way.

Quote:
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i don't disagree with that at all. i think that's the only way to do it.

i just responded to the post from "jet" who wanted to remind people (i assume fans in st.john's) that the icecaps exist solely to develop players for the jets. i think that criticism (or reminder) should be aimed not at fans, but at the coaching staff and management, because they want to win the calder cup above all else.
[/QUOTE]

Gotcha, IMO I don't see the Ice Caps as being on either extream myself. It's not there solely to let prospects play, and it's not there as a vet organization trying to win AHL championships to the detriment of the NHL parent org (Chicago Wolves anyone?).

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11-06-2012, 10:59 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Even if that is true, that his desires are 100% AHL product and nothing but, he still has incentives to develop the younger players as they are going to be future IceCap players. I think very few Jets' prospects will not go through SJ.
Gotta agree with that. Good call.

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11-07-2012, 06:14 PM
  #564
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St. Johns Icecaps vs Manchester Monarchs (LA) starting at 6pm cst, just a reminder

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11-07-2012, 07:13 PM
  #565
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Anyone know if theres a stream for this game?

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11-07-2012, 07:19 PM
  #566
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Anyone know if theres a stream for this game?
I'm trying to find one as well. First row has nothing.

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11-07-2012, 07:36 PM
  #567
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Hopefully this one works. http://www.usagoals.com/live/249764-...ivo/tv/gratis/

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11-07-2012, 07:44 PM
  #568
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tyvm

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11-07-2012, 07:49 PM
  #569
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Something tells me whatever system it is that Noel and McCambridge use on special teams doesn't work too well.

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11-07-2012, 07:55 PM
  #570
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Plenty of good seats still available tonight in Manchester.

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11-07-2012, 07:59 PM
  #571
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Another **** effort so far.

Burmistrov can't stay out of the box.

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11-07-2012, 08:11 PM
  #572
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The PP is awful. 1 for 36.

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11-07-2012, 08:12 PM
  #573
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absolutely terrible powerplay...

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11-07-2012, 08:16 PM
  #574
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No excuse for this crap.We have had a few days off.Nothing changed.

Are we going to be shut out by every goaltender in the league?

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11-07-2012, 08:39 PM
  #575
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What's the lineup tonight?

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