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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: NHL and GJ, Put Up or Shut Up!

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Old
11-23-2012, 01:24 PM
  #401
Naurutger
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Now that is a sale I would stand in line for....you know if I was rich

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11-27-2012, 06:32 AM
  #402
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The city counsel vote is tonight and we're trying to get as many fans to go as possible. Please try and come out to show your support! Wear Coyotes gear!

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11-27-2012, 11:07 AM
  #403
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This will be an interesting vote.

We've got three YES votes in the bag and two certain NO votes.

Councilwoman Knaack is the swing vote. If she votes NO the tie goes to the Mayor (who is a NO vote), and the current proposed AMF/Lease agreement with JIG will be dead in the water. If Knaack votes YES than the JIG lease/AMF will be approved by the council and we can begin the referendum attempts by Cobb/Jones all over again, as well as the almost certain reemergence of GWI attempts to derail the process. Add in the fact that the current Mayor/Council is about to be ousted for a new set, and things get awfully tricky.

I had sort of a strange idea this morning that I wanted to float out to you guys and see what you think.

If this deal gets a YES tonight, I still have a hard time seeing it succeed in the face of what will be numerous challenges from multiple groups and attempts to delay the whole thing until a hostile council takes over in mere weeks. There is just so much working against this deal, and the only saving grace it has is a lame duck city council barely passing the agreement at the very last possible moment. It doesn't look good. Not at all.

HOWEVER, if Knaack votes NO, there is will be all sorts of back patting on the main boards and the great white north will exclaim hallelujah! Most folks will agree that this is the death blow. I'm not so certain, though. I'm almost wondering if a NO vote isn't almost a little bit better for our chances. This is probably insane, but hear me out. YES gets us delayed for another eternity. NO sort of forces the NHL's hand, no? If the AMF/Lease gets voted down by the friendliest council the Coyotes are ever going to see than the NHL is going to have to make a choice. Do they accept defeat and relocate the team, or do they facilitate a sale to JIG that allows him to agree to a more appropriate AMF/Lease agreement with COG. Basically, does the NHL now decide to drop the sale price, or defer the payment? Does the NHL bend a little more on revenue sharing amounts in CBA negotiations going forward?

I don't have much hope for success with a fly by night, last minute, shoe horning in of the proposed AMF/Lease agreement by a lame duck council. Strikes me as a weak, ill-conceived effort bound to fail when challenged.

However, an absolute NO to this JIG deal will force the NHL to finally ess or get of the pot.

Anyone see it this way at all? Am I totally off my rocker, here?

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11-27-2012, 11:09 AM
  #404
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A "no" vote and the Coyotes relocate next year. End of story....

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11-27-2012, 11:17 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
A "no" vote and the Coyotes relocate next year. End of story....
I'm inclined to agree, however, the homer in me still thinks there might be the slightest glimmer of hope. We've learned quite a bit about the NHL via CBA negotiations. They aren't going to move in the other side's direction even an inch until they've reached an absolute pressure point in negotiation timelines. Why would the NHL simply volunteer to give Jamison a sweetheart deal if there is still hope that COG will fork over enough cash, on their own accord, to make this thing work for JIG? Why would the NHL even consider that they might maybe even hint at possibly being flexible with the purchase terms if it looks like they've got a local government about to fork over a bunch of dough?

If the COG tells the NHL to kick rocks than the NHL has to make a choice. Do they do what they should've done all along and sell the team for fair market value (instead of insisting that the local government make up the difference) or do they give up on the Phoenix market they've been hanging onto all of this time despite all of the turmoil?

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11-27-2012, 01:53 PM
  #406
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Keep in the back of your mind its going to be much harder for a referendum this time. Why? well we just had a very competitive Glendale Mayoral race, so 5% of THIS electorate, versus 4 years ago when the Mayor ran unopposed. Total votes city wide was 58,947 or they would need to collect a minimum 2947 signatures. Add a 30% failure rate and reasonably the opposition would have 30 days to collect ~3831 signatures, versus the ~1400 they got in July this year. yup I'm not worried about a referendum.

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11-27-2012, 02:02 PM
  #407
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It will still delay the process. They only care about delays.

Also, are we 100% sure that they won't go off of the previous election if the referendum is filed before 2013?

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11-27-2012, 02:37 PM
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
It will still delay the process. They only care about delays.

Also, are we 100% sure that they won't go off of the previous election if the referendum is filed before 2013?
"they" can argue anything they want. The delay is 30 days from this evening.

Quote:
Number of Required Signatures [Ariz. Const. Art. IV Pt. 1 1]
The number of signatures required for initiatives is outlined in the Arizona Constitution. An
initiative to amend the Arizona Revised Statutes requires 10% of all votes cast for Governor at
the last preceding election. An initiative to amend the Arizona Constitution requires 15% of all
votes cast for Governor at the last preceding election. A referendum requires 5% of all votes
cast for Governor (or Mayor in this instance) at the last preceding election
.
The last election as of Nov 6th preceded today's vote by all accounts.

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11-27-2012, 03:04 PM
  #409
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Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

In the event of four YES votes, I still expect there to be a referendum effort and a subsequent 30 day delay. Do you?

Also, it's just about time for GWI to slither out of their hole, is it not?

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11-27-2012, 03:09 PM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

In the event of four YES votes, I still expect there to be a referendum effort and a subsequent 30 day delay. Do you?

Also, it's just about time for GWI to slither out of their hole, is it not?
they're waiting but the deal should hold up. The fact that it's a fee that is within acceptable scope and written to withstand the Gift Clause makes me feel better. I do not see this ending soon but it I do feel this will cross the finish line with the Yotes in Glendale.

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11-27-2012, 03:44 PM
  #411
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Mod Warning: since tonight could go south visitors must remember:

Quote:
Do not visit team forums to cheer against or demean their team, or cheer for their opponent
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/fa...aq_forum_rules

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Old
11-27-2012, 03:57 PM
  #412
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Something will happen tonight, though. So at least that's nice. I'm also glad I won't be able to check up until maybe 8:30ish. Knaack will have voted by then, right?

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11-27-2012, 03:57 PM
  #413
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May I ask? When will be known the result of this vote.. or on what time is this vote settled for... I'm from Europe excuse me for not knowing that....

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11-27-2012, 04:06 PM
  #414
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Facts about the Coyotes situation (stuff that I have seen people get wrong or confused on; does not include BK stuff):
1. Phoenix was the second choice for a location spot after Minnesota
2. The Phoenix Coyotes had a $1M operating income in 1999 (actual profit unknown)
3. The Coyotes almost moved to Portland before Glendale stepped up (they wanted to leave to secure the revenue streams they didn’t get in Phoenix and why they had to turn profits over to the building holders; not to mention the mess in Scottsdale).
4. Joyce Clark was against the Hulsizer deal
5. Jamison has the money


Last edited by Naurutger: 11-27-2012 at 04:10 PM. Reason: Format
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Old
11-27-2012, 04:20 PM
  #415
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I went through my notes and with public comments plus the casino issue, the actual vote did not take place until after 11pm (may meeting to extend the NHL deal). So I am going to guess that around 10pm we could know for sure.

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11-27-2012, 04:22 PM
  #416
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Tonight is the big one, I haven't looked at the agenda yet to see when the Coyotes portion of the meeting starts.

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Old
11-27-2012, 06:06 PM
  #417
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Quote:
David Kimmerle, Sanderson Ford, stated as a graduate of Glendale High School, a major employer and tax payer in Glendale, his company has supported hockey in Arizona ever since the Road Runners were in town and now support the Coyotes. He noted he did not want to see a big vacant building in the middle of Westgate. He commented on the excitement that is felt in the arena and by the people who work there. He stated they were a major league city and they needed to keep acting like a major league city.
from December 14, 2010 council minutes

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Old
11-27-2012, 07:24 PM
  #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTippett View Post
from December 14, 2010 council minutes
Ha, great find. Skimmed right over it.

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Old
11-27-2012, 08:00 PM
  #419
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Tonight is the big one, I haven't looked at the agenda yet to see when the Coyotes portion of the meeting starts.
It's always been the last part of the evening.

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11-27-2012, 08:20 PM
  #420
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Discussing it now. Have been for the past few minutes. Skeete going over details of amended agreement right now.

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11-27-2012, 08:21 PM
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
If the COG tells the NHL to kick rocks than the NHL has to make a choice. Do they do what they should've done all along and sell the team for fair market value (instead of insisting that the local government make up the difference) or do they give up on the Phoenix market they've been hanging onto all of this time despite all of the turmoil?
Good question. I certainly don't know the answer, but I take into consideration that the league was in large part committed to the arena deal the CoG had huge coin invested in. The PHX (hockey) market is unfortunately questionable. Plenty of reasons for that but that doesn`t change a thing about greener pastures in other cities...

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11-27-2012, 08:25 PM
  #422
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Saw this on twitter:

@Why_Zee

Knaack walked in greeting Maloney Jamison and the rest of the boys with a handshake and a smile ...


Hope it means good things for us.

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11-27-2012, 09:14 PM
  #423
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watch the council meeting live

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11-27-2012, 09:38 PM
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZflyingPuck View Post
Saw this on twitter:

@Why_Zee

Knaack walked in greeting Maloney Jamison and the rest of the boys with a handshake and a smile ...


Hope it means good things for us.
Hope it's not the kiss of death. Judas kissing Jesus.

How has the meeting looked thus far? Just started watching it before the recess.

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Old
11-27-2012, 09:46 PM
  #425
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Alvarez would not stop talking. Loved Jamison's respect to the council on making such a huge decision. Beyond that, been killing 10 year olds on halo, haven't paid too much attention.

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