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10-08-2012, 12:50 PM
  #276
steelcityassault
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
were we mislead about the idea of Dumoulin being anywhere close to NHL ready?
No. He would be in the AHL if it weren't for the lock out. He's looked great. But it's a numbers game.

I predict they will decide it's better that he plays 40 minutes a night in Wheeling rather than 8-10 on certain nights in WB/S.

And Grant is by far a better player at this point in time, established himself as one of the top 3 offensive forces from the blue line in the league

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10-08-2012, 12:54 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by steelcityassault View Post
No. He would be in the AHL if it weren't for the lock out. He's looked great. But it's a numbers game.

I predict they will decide it's better that he plays 40 minutes a night in Wheeling rather than 8-10 on certain nights in WB/S.

And Grant is by far a better player at this point in time, established himself as one of the top 3 offensive forces from the blue line in the league
Is Wheeling going to actually help him get better though? I look at the AHL team differently than you probably do as an actual AHL fan. I honestly don't care about doing what is best for the WBS Penguins. I care what is best for the Pittsburgh Penguins. In that sense, I would have Dumoulin playing over Reese in the AHL. And Grant could be the best player in the AHL. I'd still sit him. I want Morrow playing that role.

Strait - Bortuzzo
Dumoulin - Despres
Reese - Morrow

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10-08-2012, 12:57 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Is Wheeling going to actually help him get better though? I look at the AHL team differently than you probably do as an actual AHL fan. I honestly don't care about doing what is best for the WBS Penguins. I care what is best for the Pittsburgh Penguins. In that sense, I would have Dumoulin playing over Reese in the AHL. And Grant could be the best player in the AHL. I'd still sit him. I want Morrow playing that role.
I'm not an AHL fan either. I watch them so I know what Pittsburgh could have in the future.

Just telling you that the coaching staff isn't going to give out jobs to Morrow and Dumoulin because they're big names. They look at frickin Joey Mormina as an every day player. It's a weird concept, but it's what they do

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10-08-2012, 12:58 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by steelcityassault View Post
I'm not an AHL fan either. I watch them so I know what Pittsburgh could have in the future.

Just telling you that the coaching staff isn't going to give out jobs to Morrow and Dumoulin because they're big names. They look at frickin Joey Mormina as an every day player. It's a weird concept, but it's what they do
I hope Shero or whoever tells them to do otherwise since these are special circumstances with the lockout.

I'm not saying I think you're wrong. I'm saying I hope you're wrong

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10-08-2012, 01:06 PM
  #280
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If they send Morrow and Dumoulin to the ECHL, I question this organization's decision making. The NHL prospects should be given the time with the AHL, especially considering guys like Despres, Morrow, and Dumoulin will all be in the NHL within the next 3 seasons. No reason to give career minor leagues those spots.

Strait, Bortuzzo, Despres, Dumoulin, and Morrow should all be in WBS. Pick whatever 6th defenseman you want.

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10-08-2012, 01:30 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
If they send Morrow and Dumoulin to the ECHL, I question this organization's decision making. The NHL prospects should be given the time with the AHL, especially considering guys like Despres, Morrow, and Dumoulin will all be in the NHL within the next 3 seasons. No reason to give career minor leagues those spots.

Strait, Bortuzzo, Despres, Dumoulin, and Morrow should all be in WBS. Pick whatever 6th defenseman you want.
Pretty much this. My assumption would be that the WBS coaches are putting winning ahead of player development this season, and view guys that they have more experience with (Mormina is going into his 4th season with the team and is alternate captain) to be a better fit on the the team than a guy like Dumoulin who has no experience on the AHL level. It may be a dumb move by WBS but I think it won't be a hard decision for them when they have to let a few guys go to Wheeling.

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10-08-2012, 01:34 PM
  #282
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Wish Strait and Bortuzzo had gone to Europe now.

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10-08-2012, 01:57 PM
  #283
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Wish Strait and Bortuzzo had gone to Europe now.
I agree. Can't blame them for going to WBS though.

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10-08-2012, 02:00 PM
  #284
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Pretty much this. My assumption would be that the WBS coaches are putting winning ahead of player development this season, and view guys that they have more experience with (Mormina is going into his 4th season with the team and is alternate captain) to be a better fit on the the team than a guy like Dumoulin who has no experience on the AHL level. It may be a dumb move by WBS but I think it won't be a hard decision for them when they have to let a few guys go to Wheeling.
And this is the AHL balancing act times 10 right now. That team is a business, and they do have to win, but at the same time, they are obligated to their NHL team to develop talent.

That being said, it may be rough going for a bit with all the young guys in the lineup, but those guys as they start to progress are going to be WAY better than the normal minor leaguers that play with WBS in normal circumstances.


And I dont like the "big mins in the ECHL better than lower mins in the AHL" argument. I don't think a guy like Dumoulin or Morrow gets anything out of playing in a league that is about as competitive as their Jr teams, and I'm not so sure that between the 5 guys I mentioned that their ice time would be relatively similar per game, obviously giving Strait and Bortuzzo more mins because they are the vets. At least in the AHL, they can start adjusting to the speed of the game, and learning the system and things like that, seeing as how DB is in WBS right now helping out. That's invaluable stuff.

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10-08-2012, 02:08 PM
  #285
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I can't see any circumstance where Morrow or Dumoulin is sent to the ECHL so they can keep up the likes of Sneep.

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10-08-2012, 02:34 PM
  #286
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Yeah I don't see how the ECHL is going to help them develop. Sure they'd get some good ice-time but learning to play defense in that kind of a league is probably going to hurt more than it helps.

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10-08-2012, 02:55 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I can't see any circumstance where Morrow or Dumoulin is sent to the ECHL so they can keep up the likes of Sneep.
well I'd rather them sent down than sit in the AHL pressbox. Grant and Reese are the only two that I think have a shot at standing in their way. Like I said, I hope Shero flexes his muscles and simply tells them they don't have a choice.

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10-08-2012, 03:41 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
well I'd rather them sent down than sit in the AHL pressbox. Grant and Reese are the only two that I think have a shot at standing in their way. Like I said, I hope Shero flexes his muscles and simply tells them they don't have a choice.
Even based on quality alone, I don't see how anyone could justify Mormina or Sneep over Dumoulin or Morrow outside of tenure. Neither of the vets have distinguished themselves in any noteworthy way - even in the A - and both of the rookies have already been earning praise.

I just think it's fretting for the sake of fretting. These are high-end prospects who have been doing everything right...they're not going down to the E on account of a couple mediocre minor-leaguers.

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10-08-2012, 04:07 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Even based on quality alone, I don't see how anyone could justify Mormina or Sneep over Dumoulin or Morrow outside of tenure. Neither of the vets have distinguished themselves in any noteworthy way - even in the A - and both of the rookies have already been earning praise.

I just think it's fretting for the sake of fretting. These are high-end prospects who have been doing everything right...they're not going down to the E on account of a couple mediocre minor-leaguers.
right, but I'd rather Mormina and Sneep sit in the AHL press box while Dumoulin plays in Wheeling if it comes to that. So its not Mormina or Sneep that worry me, its Reese and/or Grant. Grant and Reese are probably better AHL players right now than Dumoulin is. Yet I hope he gets put above them on the depth chart.

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10-08-2012, 04:21 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
right, but I'd rather Mormina and Sneep sit in the AHL press box while Dumoulin plays in Wheeling if it comes to that. So its not Mormina or Sneep that worry me, its Reese and/or Grant. Grant and Reese are probably better AHL players right now than Dumoulin is. Yet I hope he gets put above them on the depth chart.
I don't see any reason why both can't get regular minutes in a 7 man AHL unit, even with Reese and Grant.

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10-08-2012, 04:36 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I don't see any reason why both can't get regular minutes in a 7 man AHL unit, even with Reese and Grant.
I guess I hadn't considered a consistent 7 man unit. We do have more d-men prospects than forward prospects to worry about. That's an interesting possibility.

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10-08-2012, 04:55 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I guess I hadn't considered a consistent 7 man unit. We do have more d-men prospects than forward prospects to worry about. That's an interesting possibility.
Whatever the team has to do, I'm sure they'll do it to get both Morrow and Dumoulin regular AHL minutes this year.

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10-08-2012, 04:55 PM
  #293
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The ECHL will probably be stronger than it usually is at least.

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10-08-2012, 05:02 PM
  #294
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How much better is the ECHL than CHL hockey?

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10-08-2012, 06:34 PM
  #295
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I can't completely answer that question, but when talking about the ECHL, you're talking about unskilled professional hockey players...relatively speaking, where as in Jr...you're icing some of the best guys the world has to offer in that age group, so at least teenage and 20 somethings are playing on the highest level in their age group, where as in professional hockey, they are playing some of the worst competition they'd see.

I see no reason why any of our top 5 defensive prospects right now couldn't be top 4 defensemen in the AHL, so using some reasoning, that'd tell me that playing in the ECHL would be a notch below them.

Didn't really answer your question, but that's just my take.

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10-08-2012, 06:47 PM
  #296
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Definitely much less high end talent that Junior but probably better overall depth plus you're playing against men not 16 year olds.

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10-08-2012, 06:52 PM
  #297
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One interesting note is I've always heard and read comments from Shero, Fitzgerald, Botterill, etc. about how important it is for the prospects to be in a competitive, winning environment in regards to the Baby Pens. It's a tough balance for sure, but like others have said, I could see the organization playing a couple of these vets over some prospects to not only attempt to continue that winning atmosphere but also to help acclimate the young guys with some of the more seasoned players.

I'm not suggesting that's the "best" way to do it, but given this organizations history of bringing along their prospects it wouldn't be shocking to see someone like Dumo, at least at the start of the season, play a few games in the ECHL before getting a sniff at the A given the logjam of players we have.

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10-08-2012, 07:14 PM
  #298
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How about we just let the best players occupy the spots in the AHL? If Grant is (he is) better than Morrow/Dumoulin at this point then so be it. Is playing some games in the ECHL really going to destroy the development of those two? They aren't the only 2 D in the system that the Pens are trying to develop btw.

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10-08-2012, 07:20 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Wes C Addle View Post
I'm not suggesting that's the "best" way to do it, but given this organizations history of bringing along their prospects it wouldn't be shocking to see someone like Dumo, at least at the start of the season, play a few games in the ECHL before getting a sniff at the A given the logjam of players we have.
Dumoulin's a recent 2nd round pick who's not only coming off a season where he was the highest scoring defenseman in his conference, voted the best defensive defenseman in his conference, and a Hobey Baker finalist, but earning great reviews in camp.

If he's sent down to the ECHL, it wouldn't be merit-based at this point. Seriously. What have Sneep or Mormina done that would suggest they warrant a spot over Dumoulin?

I have no problem in sending a player down if he's been outplayed, but if it were done purely based on tenure, that doesn't breed competition. It breeds complacency among veterans.

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10-08-2012, 07:25 PM
  #300
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I think you're going to see
Strait-Bortuzzo
Reese-Despres
Mormina & two others every night rotating with Mormina on the bottom pairing.

Not sure if Bortuzzo will be ready for opening night though.

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