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Old
11-26-2012, 03:33 PM
  #801
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It's funny that Maatta has as many points as Pouliot. I'm starting to love that pick even more. Both I think have 23 points on the season, but Maatta is miles ahead of Pouliot defensively. Which D prospect do you think will be traded of the 6 main ones? (Maatta, Pouliot, Morrow, Harrington, Dumoulin and Despres). Dumoulin is currently playing fantastic in the AHL, Harrington is a tank in his own zone and is a great leader, and Maatta and Pouliot are still both very young. I think the first to be moved will either be Despres or Morrow. Maatta is now the top prospect IMO, such a stud. I think another issue is that with the lockout, Morrow isn't getting as much ice time as he should be getting, for the Baby Pens have like 4 NHL quality D in their top-6 (Bortuzzo, Strait, Despres and Reese). I've heard that Despres has been mediocre in the AHL this year, but he is 2nd in D scoring for the Pens. He has been having a bunch of turnover issues, but maybe that's because he is in the AHL. Some guys do better in the NHL than in the AHL, so maybe that's what Despres problem is.

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11-26-2012, 03:58 PM
  #802
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Im sure Despres will be moved long before Morrow. MOrrow brings something the pens badly need. And Despres, while a solid prospect, doesnt bring anything special to the table.

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11-26-2012, 06:34 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
It's funny that Maatta has as many points as Pouliot. I'm starting to love that pick even more. Both I think have 23 points on the season, but Maatta is miles ahead of Pouliot defensively. Which D prospect do you think will be traded of the 6 main ones? (Maatta, Pouliot, Morrow, Harrington, Dumoulin and Despres). Dumoulin is currently playing fantastic in the AHL, Harrington is a tank in his own zone and is a great leader, and Maatta and Pouliot are still both very young. I think the first to be moved will either be Despres or Morrow. Maatta is now the top prospect IMO, such a stud. I think another issue is that with the lockout, Morrow isn't getting as much ice time as he should be getting, for the Baby Pens have like 4 NHL quality D in their top-6 (Bortuzzo, Strait, Despres and Reese). I've heard that Despres has been mediocre in the AHL this year, but he is 2nd in D scoring for the Pens. He has been having a bunch of turnover issues, but maybe that's because he is in the AHL. Some guys do better in the NHL than in the AHL, so maybe that's what Despres problem is.
Morrow is the best prospect this org has. Very doubtful he gets moved when he is the only one with the potential of being a true #1 who can play in all situations, ala Keith and Letang (actually Letang is mediocre on the PP and Morrow I am certain will excel there).

I also strongly disagree that Maatta is better defensively than Pouliot.

Despres was ass in the A last year, so it means as much to me as BB leading the team in points.

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11-26-2012, 07:34 PM
  #804
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Im sure Despres will be moved long before Morrow. MOrrow brings something the pens badly need. And Despres, while a solid prospect, doesnt bring anything special to the table.
Pens badly need a big bodied, defensive-oriented, physical D. We need a D prospect like Orpik. All we have is Ruopp, and he will probably end up being another Engelland. Right now, we have a potential Numminen (Maatta), Keith (Pouliot), Vlasic (Despres), Gonchar (Morrow), Staal (Harrington), and Seabrook (Dumoulin). I don't think Dumoulin or Harrington will turn out as good as either that I said, but it was the best player comparison that I could get. Imagine a worse Staal for Harrington and a worse Seabrook for Dumoulin. Rest are pretty accurate. Vlasic is a solid 2-way number 3rd D, which is what Despres will probably be. Keith and Gonchar are both offensive-minded top-pairing D. Numminen was a fantastic, defensively minded top-pair D. I think Maatta will end up on the top pair in the future.

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11-26-2012, 07:37 PM
  #805
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Morrow is the best prospect this org has. Very doubtful he gets moved when he is the only one with the potential of being a true #1 who can play in all situations, ala Keith and Letang (actually Letang is mediocre on the PP and Morrow I am certain will excel there).

I also strongly disagree that Maatta is better defensively than Pouliot.

Despres was ass in the A last year, so it means as much to me as BB leading the team in points.
Maatta is miles ahead of Pouliot defensively. Pouliot is better offensively though. Personally, I think Letang will be traded, he doesn't have the shot to run the top PP. He has ridiculous passing skills and offensive awareness, but he needs a shot like Gonch to play the top of the umbrella. Morrow has that. It's hard to tell which, but 1 of them will be traded.

And Bennett is a tank, don't talk trash on him. He will be on Sid's wing with Perry in the future.

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11-26-2012, 07:39 PM
  #806
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Letang has a great shot...it's just inaccurate at times. In the beginning of last season, he had awesome accuracy, was getting the shot off quickly.

99% of Letang's problem is that he takes a second too long to think about what he wants to do, and he defers to Sid and Geno way too much. If he was more assertive, he'd be an elite PPQB.

That is one aspect of Morrow's game that I love. Even when he was here for a short time last season, he defers to no one, and is not afraid of shooting the puck.

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11-26-2012, 07:49 PM
  #807
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Letang has a great shot...it's just inaccurate at times. In the beginning of last season, he had awesome accuracy, was getting the shot off quickly.

99% of Letang's problem is that he takes a second too long to think about what he wants to do, and he defers to Sid and Geno way too much. If he was more assertive, he'd be an elite PPQB.

That is one aspect of Morrow's game that I love. Even when he was here for a short time last season, he defers to no one, and is not afraid of shooting the puck.
Look at the save Bryz had on Letang in the playoffs last year. That portrays Letang's problem to the point. He takes too long to shoot. How many times does he take a 1-timer? Almost never, and when he does, he misses the net. I remember in the preseason last year, Morrow sniped Backstrom from the blue line on a 1-timer. That's why I compared Morrow to Gonchar. Letang doesn't have the shot to play the top of the umbrella, lucky for us, Morrow does. And look at that, we have a hole on the left half-boards with Sully leaving. Put him there.

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11-26-2012, 07:58 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Look at the save Bryz had on Letang in the playoffs last year. That portrays Letang's problem to the point. He takes too long to shoot. How many times does he take a 1-timer? Almost never, and when he does, he misses the net. I remember in the preseason last year, Morrow sniped Backstrom from the blue line on a 1-timer. That's why I compared Morrow to Gonchar. Letang doesn't have the shot to play the top of the umbrella, lucky for us, Morrow does. And look at that, we have a hole on the left half-boards with Sully leaving. Put him there.
ya Morrow and Letang should be a very good pair on the PP points some day.

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11-26-2012, 08:06 PM
  #809
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Maatta is miles ahead of Pouliot defensively. Pouliot is better offensively though. Personally, I think Letang will be traded, he doesn't have the shot to run the top PP. He has ridiculous passing skills and offensive awareness, but he needs a shot like Gonch to play the top of the umbrella. Morrow has that. It's hard to tell which, but 1 of them will be traded.
Maatta isn't miles ahead of DP. What are you basing that on? They both need a lot more work in their own end and neither is much better than the other in that dept.

I'm pretty sure that both Letang and Morrow will be here for awhile, because guys like that are hard to find. You make trades to land blueliners like these two... You don't trade them unless your hand is forced.

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And Bennett is a tank, don't talk trash on him. He will be on Sid's wing with Perry in the future.
The comment had nothing to do with what I think of BB, but the last thing I would call him is a tank.

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11-26-2012, 08:43 PM
  #810
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I'm pretty sure that both Letang and Morrow will be here for awhile, because guys like that are hard to find. You make trades to land blueliners like these two... You don't trade them unless your hand is forced.
No doubt. This "trade Letang" idea is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Anyone who suggests it should have to submit their own projected Letang-free depth chart, because there's no way it doesn't look like complete ****.

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11-26-2012, 08:51 PM
  #811
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The only argument one can make for moving Letang is if Morrow surpasses him in the future. With Staal gone, the team is built around Sid, Geno, and Letang.

I think Pouliot could be our Brian Campbell. Middle pairing guy on a contender who runs the PP for us. Chicago underachieved mightily for stretches on the man advantage and its no surprise that happened with Campbell gone. Neither Keith nor Letang are true PP QBs.

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11-26-2012, 08:52 PM
  #812
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No one should be surprised by the the trade Letang talk since a large segment of the fan base touted trading Malkin over Staal at various points on the basis of Malkin and Sid being similar players and Staal playing a different type of game than either of them and thus was more valuable than one of the two. Cause, you know, why would you want two number 1 centers when you can have a clearly defined 1 (Sid) and clearly defined 2 (Staal)?

It's the same deal with Letang, have a decent number of defensive prospects with some offensive skill and then all of a sudden want to trade one of the best d-man in the league in a couple of seasons so you don't clog up the roster with a bunch of pmd's.

The guys like Letang are the one's you want to keep and you hope that of the 6-8 legit d-man prospects, 1 or 2 or them can just get somewhat close to being as good as a player as Letang. Even if one of the prospects become as good or even better than Letang, you still do everything you can to keep him since having multiple outstanding d-man is a really good problem to have. It's not like Morrow/Pouliot/etc make Letang redundant.

The eternal off-season is probably somewhat to blame for the Letang trade talk though. People are getting a bit stir-crazy.

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11-26-2012, 08:58 PM
  #813
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I wouldn't say Maatta is miles ahead of DP defensively, but I'd say he's better 1v1, positionally and his stick work is slightly better.

DP isn't even that bad defensively. It's just (from what I've seen) his body isn't physically mature enough to be affective at the defensive game he tries to play.

Both need work when it comes to playing the boards and bringing a consistent physical element to their games

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11-26-2012, 09:05 PM
  #814
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No one should be surprised by the the trade Letang talk since a large segment of the fan base touted trading Malkin over Staal at various points on the basis of Malkin and Sid being similar players and Staal playing a different type of game than either of them and thus was more valuable than one of the two. Cause, you know, why would you want two number 1 centers when you can have a clearly defined 1 (Sid) and clearly defined 2 (Staal)?
At least I can see where people were coming from with the Staal or Malkin discussion, it at least being based on two proven NHL players. The Letang trade suggestions on the other hand....whew. There's a lot to like about the defensive prospect pool, but none of these guys are anywhere close to being able to replace what Letang brings. Which makes the notion of trading Letang even more...befuddling?

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11-26-2012, 09:17 PM
  #815
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No one should be surprised by the the trade Letang talk since a large segment of the fan base touted trading Malkin over Staal at various points on the basis of Malkin and Sid being similar players and Staal playing a different type of game than either of them and thus was more valuable than one of the two. Cause, you know, why would you want two number 1 centers when you can have a clearly defined 1 (Sid) and clearly defined 2 (Staal)?

It's the same deal with Letang, have a decent number of defensive prospects with some offensive skill and then all of a sudden want to trade one of the best d-man in the league in a couple of seasons so you don't clog up the roster with a bunch of pmd's.

The guys like Letang are the one's you want to keep and you hope that of the 6-8 legit d-man prospects, 1 or 2 or them can just get somewhat close to being as good as a player as Letang. Even if one of the prospects become as good or even better than Letang, you still do everything you can to keep him since having multiple outstanding d-man is a really good problem to have. It's not like Morrow/Pouliot/etc make Letang redundant.

The eternal off-season is probably somewhat to blame for the Letang trade talk though. People are getting a bit stir-crazy.
That's exactly it. Even in the very unlikely event that one of our defense prospects someday becomes better than Letang, that doesn't mean we should have any incentive to trade a great young defenseman. Never mind the fact that if any of them ever do become better than Letang, it won't be before his current contract is up, and afterwards the team will undoubtedly have committed to him long-term.

And seeing as how we're not Philly, that means he'll stay here long-term.

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11-26-2012, 09:37 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
That's exactly it. Even in the very unlikely event that one of our defense prospects someday becomes better than Letang, that doesn't mean we should have any incentive to trade a great young defenseman. Never mind the fact that if any of them ever do become better than Letang, it won't be before his current contract is up, and afterwards the team will undoubtedly have committed to him long-term.

And seeing as how we're not Philly, that means he'll stay here long-term.
It's more of a money issue. If Letang is willing to stay long-term for like $5.5-$6 million a season, they will lock him up for a long time. The issue is that once the D prospect's ELC expire, they will demand a lot more money. They won't be able to afford to pay Letang over $6 million a season and have players like Maatta, Pouliot, and others stick around. Not to mention a pretty sizable gap in age. The ONLY reason Letang would be traded would be that Morrow and Pouliot turn out to be better than him AND they can get a top-scoring winger for him. So it's probably not going to happen. It's not like he would be traded right now, he would be traded in the future. I personally think that one of our D prospects will be included in a package for a scoring winger for Sid aka Perry.

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11-26-2012, 09:42 PM
  #817
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It's more of a money issue. If Letang is willing to stay long-term for like $5.5-$6 million a season, they will lock him up for a long time. The issue is that once the D prospect's ELC expire, they will demand a lot more money. They won't be able to afford to pay Letang over $6 million a season and have players like Maatta, Pouliot, and others stick around. Not to mention a pretty sizable gap in age. The ONLY reason Letang would be traded would be that Morrow and Pouliot turn out to be better than him AND they can get a top-scoring winger for him. So it's probably not going to happen. It's not like he would be traded right now, he would be traded in the future. I personally think that one of our D prospects will be included in a package for a scoring winger for Sid aka Perry.
No offense, but you're so far ahead of yourself and your hypothetical situation contains so many farfetched "ifs" that it's really not worth entertaining. It basically involves Pouliot and Morrow performing beyond their reasonable best-case scenarios half a decade from now.

This lockout needs to end. People are losing their ****.

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11-26-2012, 10:16 PM
  #818
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No offense, but you're so far ahead of yourself and your hypothetical situation contains so many farfetched "ifs" that it's really not worth entertaining. It basically involves Pouliot and Morrow performing beyond their reasonable best-case scenarios half a decade from now.

This lockout needs to end. People are losing their ****.
Except it isn't a half decade from now, it's 2 years. Also, that isn't out-performing their best-case scenario. Both are projected to be top-pairing D that are capable of running the PP. That is what Letang is. Believe it or not, he is overrated. Yes, he is in the top-10 D in the NHL (I'd put him at 9), but he isn't this legend that people think he is. No one is doubting his offensive ability, he would have probably been 2nd in D scoring had it not been for the concussion, but he is just average defensively. He is just like Karlsson, very good offensively but average at best defensively, Karlsson being more polar than Letang.

My point was that if a younger player could do what Letang could do, why keep Letang? Unless both Morrow and Pouliot become as good as Letang, if noy better, I would not even entertain the idea of trading Letang. Another issue is that Letang hasn't been healthy over the last few years, while Pouliot hasn't missed a WHL game due to injury ever (6 scratches in 2011, return to AAA team in 2010, played every game last season and this season so far). Morrow plays more of an agressive game, so he has missed some time, but no more than 10 in a season, and a few of those were suspensions (he got a few of those). Letang missed 30 games last season due to a concussion, and those injuries don't go away. Same with Sid, both will be plagued with those injuries for a long time. I'm not saying that dropping a feather on their head would hurt them, but they are more prone to concussions now and for the rest of their career.

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11-26-2012, 10:37 PM
  #819
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Except it isn't a half decade from now, it's 2 years. Also, that isn't out-performing their best-case scenario. Both are projected to be top-pairing D that are capable of running the PP.
Except that Letang isn't just a top-pairing d capable of running the PP. As you acknowledged, he's a top 10 defenseman.

Just so I have this straight, you believe that within 2 years, teenaged defensemen Joe Morrow and Derrick Pouliot could both outperform the only active defenseman outside Weber and Chara to finish Top 10 in Norris voting the last two seasons?

The same Joe Morrow that's currently having issues adjusting to the AHL? The same Derrick Pouliot who looked overmatched against the Russian Select team a couple weeks ago? These two could be Top 10 defensemen within two years? That sounds reasonable to you?

There's a time to dig in your heels and there's a time to give up the ghost. It's now time to take a step back and look at the absurdity of this argument.

Quote:
Another issue is that Letang hasn't been healthy over the last few years, while Pouliot hasn't missed a WHL game due to injury ever (6 scratches in 2011, return to AAA team in 2010, played every game last season and this season so far). Morrow plays more of an agressive game, so he has missed some time, but no more than 10 in a season, and a few of those were suspensions (he got a few of those). Letang missed 30 games last season due to a concussion, and those injuries don't go away.
That's plain wrong.

Quote:
Same with Sid, both will be plagued with those injuries for a long time. I'm not saying that dropping a feather on their head would hurt them, but they are more prone to concussions now and for the rest of their career.
We'd better trade Sid too, then.


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11-27-2012, 06:29 AM
  #820
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Except that Letang isn't just a top-pairing d capable of running the PP. As you acknowledged, he's a top 10 defenseman.

Just so I have this straight, you believe that within 2 years, teenaged defensemen Joe Morrow and Derrick Pouliot could both outperform the only active defenseman outside Weber and Chara to finish Top 10 in Norris voting the last two seasons?

The same Joe Morrow that's currently having issues adjusting to the AHL? The same Derrick Pouliot who looked overmatched against the Russian Select team a couple weeks ago? These two could be Top 10 defensemen within two years? That sounds reasonable to you?

There's a time to dig in your heels and there's a time to give up the ghost. It's now time to take a step back and look at the absurdity of this argument.



That's plain wrong.



We'd better trade Sid too, then.
I said if for everything, and I later said it was extremely unlikely. Do I think it will happen? No, but anything is possible. Mark Streit was drafted 262nd overall in the 2004 draft. 2 years later, he had a 62 point season. I know it is a loose example, for he was 28 when he was drafted, but still, it could happen.

Letang missed any game from November 26th to January 19th last year. The game on the 26th was the one where he got wrecked cheaply. He missed 21 games with that concussion, and he missed 5 more in March from that Nystrom head shot that probably also caused a concussion. 26 of the 31 games he missed were to head issues, and the others he was either bruised or suspended. That isn't a good number.

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11-27-2012, 07:22 AM
  #821
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there is a HUGE difference between possible and plausible enough to plan the future around.

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11-27-2012, 07:39 AM
  #822
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there is a HUGE difference between possible and plausible enough to plan the future around.
I'm not saying trade Letang now, that would be borderline ********, but in the slight chance that Morrow and Pouliot are both as good as Letang in a year or 2, which probably won't happen, the Pens should entertain the idea of trading Letang. No one is saying to trade Letang right now, because that is just idiotic.

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11-27-2012, 07:56 AM
  #823
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I'm not saying trade Letang now, that would be borderline ********, but in the slight chance that Morrow and Pouliot are both as good as Letang in a year or 2, which probably won't happen, the Pens should entertain the idea of trading Letang. No one is saying to trade Letang right now, because that is just idiotic.
the odds of both of them being as good as Letang in 2 years is so astronomically low that its just not worth discussing. Odds are neither will ever be as good as Letang, let alone both of them AND that quickly. And in that scenario, I would still hold on to all 3 as long as I could afford them. So for the length of Morrow and Pouliot's ELCs at the least.


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11-27-2012, 08:06 AM
  #824
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I'm not saying trade Letang now, that would be borderline ********, but in the slight chance that Morrow and Pouliot are both as good as Letang in a year or 2, which probably won't happen, the Pens should entertain the idea of trading Letang. No one is saying to trade Letang right now, because that is just idiotic.
Zero chance DP and Morrow can be the minute eaters Letang is, in two years. I believe Morrow can be as good as Letang and I'm as high on him as any Pens prospect I've seen. However, he wouldn't be capable of pushing Letang out for four or five years minimum.

Letang is only 25 yrs old. Most blueliners don't hit their stride until their late 20s and people forget Letang isn't close to being done developing.

I see no reason to move either, because you can never have enough puck movers who play a physical game like these two. They are rare commodities and most teams are lucky to even have one, let alone two.

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11-27-2012, 09:06 AM
  #825
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I like discussing the future, but this over hypothetical stuff is getting out of hand. What if Geno and Sid both lose their legs in a car crash? We need replacement centers!

Letang will not be traded unless he pulls a Staal. Since he gets all the minute he wants and doesn't have a brother playing on another team, I don't see that problem coming up.

Morrow needs at least this season and two more to become a candidate for the top 4, Pouliot two years more. What I'm I trying to say? Letang's staying.

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