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11-27-2012, 09:09 AM
  #826
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Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
I like discussing the future, but this over hypothetical stuff is getting out of hand. What if Geno and Sid both lose their legs in a car crash? We need replacement centers!

Letang will not be traded unless he pulls a Staal. Since he gets all the minute he wants and doesn't have a brother playing on another team, I don't see that problem coming up.

Morrow needs at least this season and two more to become a candidate for the top 4, Pouliot two years more. What I'm I trying to say? Letang's staying.
Absolutely this. Letang stays in Pittsburgh as long as he wants to. We can't even really project what type of contract or money he would be looking at until we know the terms of the new CBA anyway, so it's really not worth discussing.

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11-27-2012, 02:01 PM
  #827
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So now that we've traded Letang can we draft more defensemen?
(Posted from the near future.)

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11-27-2012, 02:27 PM
  #828
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Back to realistic talk, where do you think the Pens have a bad prospect pool in, as in what position? They don't have a strong pool of wingers outside of Tangradi, Kuhnhackl and Bennett, and none of those are anything to write home about. However, all the wingers in the top-6 over the last few years either were traded here or came here by free agency (Kunitz from Anaheim, Neal from Dallas, Dupuis from Atlanta, ect). Do you think they will draft any wingers, or do you think they will use a D prospect or 2 to get a top winger *cough* Perry *cough*? Hell, Perry would come cheaper, since he is going to be a free agent, and it doesn't seem like he has any interest in staying in Anaheim. Probably one of our D prospects, a roster player (please be TK, he is so bad) and a 1st could get it done. Maybe even less

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11-27-2012, 02:40 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Back to realistic talk, where do you think the Pens have a bad prospect pool in, as in what position? They don't have a strong pool of wingers outside of Tangradi, Kuhnhackl and Bennett, and none of those are anything to write home about. However, all the wingers in the top-6 over the last few years either were traded here or came here by free agency (Kunitz from Anaheim, Neal from Dallas, Dupuis from Atlanta, ect). Do you think they will draft any wingers, or do you think they will use a D prospect or 2 to get a top winger *cough* Perry *cough*? Hell, Perry would come cheaper, since he is going to be a free agent, and it doesn't seem like he has any interest in staying in Anaheim. Probably one of our D prospects, a roster player (please be TK, he is so bad) and a 1st could get it done. Maybe even less
Our obvious weakness in the prospect pool is forwards and wingers specifically (although we aren't exactly budding with top center prospects). There is a case to be made that our goalie prospect pool is equally weak.

Anyway, I'm not sure where this Perry talk is coming from. The dude is going to get paid and we likely can't afford a team of Crosby, Malkin, Perry, and Letang on long term big money deals. The new CBA will limit contract term and salary fluctuation from year to year making this even harder. Perry has little incentive to sign a salary cap friendly deal and can make 7 plus on the open market.

Even without him we would have a team of Crosby at 8.7, Malkin at 9.5 (or so), Letang at 7+, Fleury at 5, and Neal at 5. That's 35.2 of a 66 mil cap in 2014-15 (estimated by taking proposed 60.3 cap this season under new deal and grew cap by 5% each year just as a rough estimate). Adding Perry at 6.5+ would make it near impossible to field a roster without a bunch of minimum salary scrubs on it. So I would say we aren't getting him.

Our winger situation will rely heavily on the development of Bennett, Tangradi, and trading one the D prospects and Martin, Orpik, Nisky. Perry is a pipe dream. Could it happen? Sure, stranger things have happened but let's not get our hopes up.

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11-27-2012, 02:43 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Back to realistic talk,

......


*cough* Perry *cough*? Hell, Perry would come cheaper, since he is going to be a free agent, and it doesn't seem like he has any interest in staying in Anaheim. Probably one of our D prospects, a roster player (please be TK, he is so bad) and a 1st could get it done. Maybe even less
But.....that's not realistic. Also, I think Bennett is something to write home about. He won't score 70-80 points but I think he has a legit shot at being the first top 6 winger the Pens developed in a long time.

As for Perry....don't get your hopes up. We all saw what happened with Parise. Crosby and winning isn't all a player wants. And trading won't make sense for Anaheim, they want top 6 scoring depth and TK does not qualify as "top 6". Think of Nash's return. Two 40-50, youg-ish forwards, a good D prospect and a first. We don't have any young, consistent, 40-50 point players.

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Old
11-27-2012, 03:06 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Our obvious weakness in the prospect pool is forwards and wingers specifically (although we aren't exactly budding with top center prospects). There is a case to be made that our goalie prospect pool is equally weak.

Anyway, I'm not sure where this Perry talk is coming from. The dude is going to get paid and we likely can't afford a team of Crosby, Malkin, Perry, and Letang on long term big money deals. The new CBA will limit contract term and salary fluctuation from year to year making this even harder. Perry has little incentive to sign a salary cap friendly deal and can make 7 plus on the open market.

Even without him we would have a team of Crosby at 8.7, Malkin at 9.5 (or so), Letang at 7+, Fleury at 5, and Neal at 5. That's 35.2 of a 66 mil cap in 2014-15 (estimated by taking proposed 60.3 cap this season under new deal and grew cap by 5% each year just as a rough estimate). Adding Perry at 6.5+ would make it near impossible to field a roster without a bunch of minimum salary scrubs on it. So I would say we aren't getting him.

Our winger situation will rely heavily on the development of Bennett, Tangradi, and trading one the D prospects and Martin, Orpik, Nisky. Perry is a pipe dream. Could it happen? Sure, stranger things have happened but let's not get our hopes up.
Shero said at the begining of free agency that the Pens could spend $7 million and keep their core together still. The Pens have the room long-term to take a $7 million salary. That is why Parise to the Pens was such a hot topic. Malkin is going to take the same as Sid, without a doubt (I doubt the contract length, but the money will be the same). Letang will probably get a similar deal to Karlsson but worth less money (my guess would be a 7 year deal worth $42 million, or $6 million a season). We also have to remember that we have to re-sign Sutter, which will probably be around $3 million, and probably about $3.5 million for Orpik. So that's about $40 million locked up to 4 forwards (Sutter, Neal, Malkin and Crosby), 2 D (Letang and Orpik, we will have traded Martin by then) and a goalie (Fleury).

Also by then, definitely Despres, and probably Morrow, Bennett, Harrington, and Dumoulin will be NHL regulars. There is a chance for Kuhnhackl, Uher, Maatta and Pouliot to be NHL regulars by then (Maatta and Pouliot a lot more likely, but I don't think they will be rushed in). Despres will need to be re-signed, and it is impossible right now to guess how much he will demand. So essentially we have:

Empty-Crosby-Bennett
Empty-Malkin-Neal
Kuhnhackl-Sutter-Empty
Uher-Empty-Empty

Letang-Despres
Morrow-Orpik
Harrington-Dumoulin

So that's 12.2+X on defense (X being Despres' new salary), 27.7 on offense and 5 in net, which is $39.9+X total, while needing to fill 6 spots. The other 3rd line winger will probably take about $2 million, and the 4th liners will probably add up to $1.5 million, so that's $43.4+X with 2 empty slots. We could potentially get him, but I don't think the Pens will as long as Bennett stays healthy. Remember, this is purely hypothetical. I don't think we will get Perry, hopefully we won't need to either. The money does work, but that doesn't make it the right move.


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Old
11-27-2012, 03:09 PM
  #832
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But.....that's not realistic. Also, I think Bennett is something to write home about. He won't score 70-80 points but I think he has a legit shot at being the first top 6 winger the Pens developed in a long time.

As for Perry....don't get your hopes up. We all saw what happened with Parise. Crosby and winning isn't all a player wants. And trading won't make sense for Anaheim, they want top 6 scoring depth and TK does not qualify as "top 6". Think of Nash's return. Two 40-50, youg-ish forwards, a good D prospect and a first. We don't have any young, consistent, 40-50 point players.
It would be for the rights of him though. If the season gets canceled, he will be a free agent once free agency starts. What we are giving up for him is rather steep for the rights of a player. That being said, I think Tangradi will finally develop into another Ryan Malone, and we won't need to get a new winger for Sid. As long as Kunitz stays competitive at the level he is now and Bennett stays on his current path, our top-6 is set for a long time.

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Old
11-27-2012, 07:12 PM
  #833
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grigorenko is a beast. hes dominating the Q. so glad we drafted him.

wait....we drafted who?

apparently this was too vague.

yeah im still bitter about not drafting a forward in the first round, countless research has been done about where top 6 forwards come from and i believe 60% or so are from the first round of the entry draft. (some infographic i saw a while back, could be wrong but im sure its a significant amount).

the same cannot be said about Dmen as they are found throughout the draft.

im not mad at pouliot, i think he can be a fine #3. perhaps a tad bit better than gogo (which i know got us a winger). but i have a serious issue with passing up on a potential top tier talent which can be NHL PLAYERS ON AN ENTRY LEVEL DEAL (this is literally the most important thing at this junction).

whatevs, i'll see shero and boterill next year and pick their brains a bit about it. but it doesnt make sense and probably never will.

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Old
11-27-2012, 07:24 PM
  #834
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Doesn't explain why you quoted a guy talking about Matt Murray.

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Old
11-28-2012, 04:59 PM
  #835
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Sure doesn't. Dunno why I quoted him.

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11-29-2012, 12:23 PM
  #836
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Sneep with a goal and an assist in Wheeling's game last night.

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11-29-2012, 05:43 PM
  #837
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"Wow." - Ben Stein

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Old
11-29-2012, 07:15 PM
  #838
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Sneep with a goal and an assist in Wheeling's game last night.
but what'd he score on his ACT.

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11-29-2012, 07:31 PM
  #839
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Zlobin back in the line-up tonight after missing a couple of games.

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11-29-2012, 10:14 PM
  #840
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Good. Want him to be healthy for the WJC.

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11-30-2012, 07:23 AM
  #841
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Anyone else giving up hope on Theissen (not the Tiffany Amber one. Her career is obviously done)? .054% difference in save % to Zatkoff (mopping the floor with him so far).

Brad had his great year in WBS, but that is looking more like a fluke than anything. I hope they can convince Jeff to stay in hopes of backing up a very shaky MAF in 2 years.

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11-30-2012, 08:25 AM
  #842
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Theissen is not and never will be an NHL goaltender. I don't think most really expected aynthing else.

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11-30-2012, 09:30 AM
  #843
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Anyone else giving up hope on Theissen (not the Tiffany Amber one. Her career is obviously done)? .054% difference in save % to Zatkoff (mopping the floor with him so far).

Brad had his great year in WBS, but that is looking more like a fluke than anything. I hope they can convince Jeff to stay in hopes of backing up a very shaky MAF in 2 years.
His size was always going to be a mark against him, so two subpar seasons in a row plus a bigger, younger, better goalie in the system means it's pretty much curtains.

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11-30-2012, 10:39 AM
  #844
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Do you think that in next years draft the Pen's will go heavey drafting scoring forwards and goalies? We are set on defense and we have plenty of role players example Rust. Just curious what everyone thinks. Thanks

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11-30-2012, 11:29 AM
  #845
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Originally Posted by redsono93 View Post
Do you think that in next years draft the Pen's will go heavey drafting scoring forwards and goalies? We are set on defense and we have plenty of role players example Rust. Just curious what everyone thinks. Thanks
I would like to see scoring prospects drafted, but Shero and the FO appear to feel more comfortable taking D prospects and then flipping them for a more proven talent in the future.

That said, I would like to believe that the FO believes largely in BPA. So if a scoring forward is the BPA, I would think he would be the pick. But who knows, I certainly did not think Pouliot was the BPA.

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11-30-2012, 11:34 AM
  #846
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I suspect, like some said, it will be a forward-heavy draft, like 2010 was.

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11-30-2012, 11:52 AM
  #847
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Do you think that in next years draft the Pen's will go heavey drafting scoring forwards and goalies? We are set on defense and we have plenty of role players example Rust. Just curious what everyone thinks. Thanks
I don't know why you'd ever waste a pick on a goal tender in today's market. Lots of proven NHL talent available at reasonable prices IMO. Picked up Zatkoff for free.

Pens need talented, possession based forwards. Lots. "Role players" are just players that don't really pan out, but find a niche. I wouldn't be drafting them on purpose. They are kind of like usable scraps that you always have left over. Kunitz, Dupers, and Cooke aren't getting any younger. Pens really only have about 2 candidates in Bennett / Tangradi that look to be in line to make it to the NHL to replace those 3. I still think both will be 2nd/3rd line players. Pens would still need that other top 6 forward (who should've been picked at #8 this year).

Pens might get 2 decent NHL Dmen out of their current crop. I just hope that they are the ones that the Pen's decide to keep. I have been very disappoint in Morrow's play so far in the AHL, and he is supposed to be our best prospect.

I still hold hope that Scuds could make a return as an UFA

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11-30-2012, 12:25 PM
  #848
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I don't know why you'd ever waste a pick on a goal tender in today's market. Lots of proven NHL talent available at reasonable prices IMO. Picked up Zatkoff for free.

Pens need talented, possession based forwards. Lots. "Role players" are just players that don't really pan out, but find a niche. I wouldn't be drafting them on purpose. They are kind of like usable scraps that you always have left over. Kunitz, Dupers, and Cooke aren't getting any younger. Pens really only have about 2 candidates in Bennett / Tangradi that look to be in line to make it to the NHL to replace those 3. I still think both will be 2nd/3rd line players. Pens would still need that other top 6 forward (who should've been picked at #8 this year).

Pens might get 2 decent NHL Dmen out of their current crop. I just hope that they are the ones that the Pen's decide to keep. I have been very disappoint in Morrow's play so far in the AHL, and he is supposed to be our best prospect.

I still hold hope that Scuds could make a return as an UFA
I'd say that's a very pessimistic prediction considering the depth and calibre of defense prospects we have and how many are already close to NHL duty.

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11-30-2012, 12:40 PM
  #849
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So what forwards and goalies do you think the pens will look for in next years draft?

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11-30-2012, 12:52 PM
  #850
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So what forwards and goalies do you think the pens will look for in next years draft?
Everything's so up in the air that it'd be useless to try and predict at this point. For all we know the lockout could take out the entire season and we could win another lottery.

But there will be high-end players available all through the first round. I think it'll be the best draft since 2003.

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