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01-20-2005, 10:51 PM
  #1
GKJ
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Flyers lineup -- this season -- when hockey returns

Remember that Carter nor Richards even if they are signed cannot join the Flyers until their junior season are over. This is what I see:

Amonte - Roenick - Kapanen
Gagne - Primeau - Knuble
LeClair - Handzus - Radivojevic
4th line Stevenson, Sharp, Somik, Brashear, Fedoruk

Johnsson - Markov
Desjardins - Pitkanen
Timander - Ragnarsson
7th: ???

Esche - Niittymaki


Being that the Flyers don't have any replacements unless they were to sign anyone once the lockout ends, I don't anticipate them buying out LeClair and Amonte. I think some work has to be done though, I would vote for bringing back Zhamnov and Malakhov for at least this season and maybe next

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01-20-2005, 11:17 PM
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I don't know. I just don't like the looks of the lines. Amonte having a spot on the top line is an insult to someone like Gagne. We were supposed to have the young guys take on more of a veteran role on the team, but I just don't see it happening. Why bother wasting Gagne's talents as a checking forward. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The way that Hitch uses Gagne is the biggest waste of talent I've ever seen. And for that reason, I'll never be completely sold on Hitch being a head coach and working with our younger talent. What is he going to do to Carter, Richards, and Ruzicka? Probably make them all checkers as well. Why he doesn't allow anyone with offensive talent to use it is completely beyond me.

With that being said, I could see something like Clarke deciding we need more firepower and going after Palffy and Demitra if we buy out Amonte and LeClair. And I'd have no problem with that either. We made Zhamnov one hell of a good offer and he decided to walk. Let the bum walk. I don't want no part of Zhamnov. He cost us a good young defenseman and an excellent forward prospect for only a couple of months of service. And I feel the same about Malakhov as well. We made him a good offer, he turned it down. Let his spot be taken by either Timmander or Seidenburg.

To be perfectly honest though, I'd rather see the team be stripped down and completely rebuilt. We've got a nice core down the middle and we've got some really good defensemen to build around. We've also got really solid goaltending for the first time in a long time as well. I'd say jettison Roenick, Leclair, Amonte, Kapanen, and Brashear and use our kids like Ruzicka, Umberger, Carter and Richards instead.

However, I've got a funny feeling that they'll keep the roster that is currently in place and just go with it for one more go around.

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01-20-2005, 11:42 PM
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well that is true, but the nhl is or is trying a defensive first approach. when ken was with kamloops he had guys like rob brown etc who could light the lamp. and i suppose he adapted his defensive approach by becoming an assistant, then head coach. its more of the environment than him bucking the system, this isnt 80's hockey not even close. theres like 1/3 the scoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
I don't know. I just don't like the looks of the lines. Amonte having a spot on the top line is an insult to someone like Gagne. We were supposed to have the young guys take on more of a veteran role on the team, but I just don't see it happening. Why bother wasting Gagne's talents as a checking forward. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The way that Hitch uses Gagne is the biggest waste of talent I've ever seen. And for that reason, I'll never be completely sold on Hitch being a head coach and working with our younger talent. What is he going to do to Carter, Richards, and Ruzicka? Probably make them all checkers as well. Why he doesn't allow anyone with offensive talent to use it is completely beyond me.

With that being said, I could see something like Clarke deciding we need more firepower and going after Palffy and Demitra if we buy out Amonte and LeClair. And I'd have no problem with that either. We made Zhamnov one hell of a good offer and he decided to walk. Let the bum walk. I don't want no part of Zhamnov. He cost us a good young defenseman and an excellent forward prospect for only a couple of months of service. And I feel the same about Malakhov as well. We made him a good offer, he turned it down. Let his spot be taken by either Timmander or Seidenburg.

To be perfectly honest though, I'd rather see the team be stripped down and completely rebuilt. We've got a nice core down the middle and we've got some really good defensemen to build around. We've also got really solid goaltending for the first time in a long time as well. I'd say jettison Roenick, Leclair, Amonte, Kapanen, and Brashear and use our kids like Ruzicka, Umberger, Carter and Richards instead.

However, I've got a funny feeling that they'll keep the roster that is currently in place and just go with it for one more go around.

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01-21-2005, 06:03 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Remember that Carter nor Richards even if they are signed cannot join the Flyers until their junior season are over.
That's been decided already?
Quote:
This is what I see:

Amonte - Roenick - Kapanen
Gagne - Primeau - Knuble
LeClair - Handzus - Radivojevic
4th line Stevenson, Sharp, Somik, Brashear, Fedoruk

Johnsson - Markov
Desjardins - Pitkanen
Timander - Ragnarsson
7th: ???
Amonte, Burke, and LeClair are probably gone regardless of what happens w/ Carter and Richards. The lower buyout price makes this a no brainer IMO.

Roenick will play RW IF they keep him.

Timmander will spend the entire season in Europe.
Quote:
Being that the Flyers don't have any replacements unless they were to sign anyone once the lockout ends, I don't anticipate them buying out LeClair and Amonte. I think some work has to be done though, I would vote for bringing back Zhamnov and Malakhov for at least this season and maybe next
I think they want to bring Zhamnov back. Clarke has also said that Carter might play on the wing to start out.

I think the top 3 lines might look something like:
Gagne-Zhamnov-Radivojevic
Knuble-Handzus-Carter
Kapanen-Primeau-Roenick
4th line and Defense are fairly interchangeable.

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01-21-2005, 06:11 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah
That's been decided already?
Yes.




...Actually I think the agreement between the NHL and CHL expired so maybe they can, but if they were then they could have signed with the Phantoms.




Timander is on the Flyers roster, if he wasn't coming back for a potential season he wouldn't be on there

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01-21-2005, 06:20 AM
  #6
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They didn't want to sign them until after the new CBA was in place so that ruled out the Phantoms. Clarke did say he'd sign them for this season if he was allowed to under the new CBA though.

Timmander is staying in Europe this season due to the lockout. That is a fact. He signed a two year deal and will be back next season if there is one.

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01-21-2005, 08:52 AM
  #7
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since that NHL and CHL agreement has expired, i remember Clarke saying that if there's a season, he doesnt care what carter's (and maybe even richard's) OHL team cares, he's bringing him to the NHL

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01-21-2005, 09:31 AM
  #8
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as noted, there are no rules as of now governing what will happen concerning Carter and Richards if a CBA is worked out, and Clarkie said he'd sign Carter and get him playing on one of the top two lines if he could... who knows if that will happen, but to say it will or won't is a bit early as of now.

i would imagine that in a short season they would probably not buy-out Leclair and Amonte, not sure it really worth it... unless they want to go get a guy like Demitra or something like that. Zhamnov is going to want to stab himself in the face for turning down that contract in july... just my thoughts on that.

it's gonna be a who knows season, with all the players who have been playing, and all the players who haven't suddenly being thrown into the same pot. a team that gets off to a hot start -- which we tend to do -- is going to be at a huge advantage in this short of a season, so that is a positive.

it'll be a mess... there are a ton of floating players and we have no idea what the financials will be, thus no idea really what the flyers will look like. but i like our chances of being very strong if we can a) keep our top two center healthy, and b) have our defense not attacked by the plague.

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01-21-2005, 09:39 AM
  #9
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shoulda posted lines...

if Carter can come...

Gagne - Roenick - Carter/Amonte
Leclair - Handzus - Amonte/Carter/Radio
Knuble - Primeau - Kapanen
Somik/Brashear - Sharp - Radio/Stevenson

if Carter can't come...

Gagne - Roenick - Amonte/Kapanen
Leclair - Handzus - Amonte/Radio
Knuble - Primeau - Kapanen/Radio
Somik/Brashear - Sharp - Radio/Stevenson

if Carter can't come, but Zhamnov(some center) does...

Gagne/Amonte - Zhamnov - Roenick
Leclair - Handzus - Amonte/Radio/Kapanen
Knuble/Gagne - Primeau - Kapanen/Radio
Somik/Brashear/Knuble - Sharp - Radio/Stevenson

something like that anyway...

KJ - Markov
Rico - Seids
Rags - Pits
TIMMMEH! (sorry, just cracks me up...)

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01-21-2005, 10:28 AM
  #10
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This is my guess W/O Carter, and signing a D-man such as Malakhov

Knuble - Roenick - Amonte
Gagne - Primeau - Kapanen
LeClair - Handzus - Radivojevic
Brashear/Somik - Sharp - Stevenson

Johnsson - Ragnarsson
Markov - Malakhov/FA
Pitkanen - Desjardins
Seids

Esche - Frank Niitty

I know buyouts have been talked about extensively for LeClair and Amonte, but as GKJ said, we'd have some holes to fill then.

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01-21-2005, 01:00 PM
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I think Knuble will be an impact player. Burke, Leclair and possibly Amonte will be bought out or dumped for AHL players. Seidenberg will play, and we will see no new free agent signings on D, maybe Jones or Meyer serving as the 7th D-man. Carter and Umberger will be signed and will play wing.

Gagne-Roenick-Carter
Knuble-Primeau-Kapanen
Brashear-Zeus-Radio
Stevenson -Sharp- Umberger
Somik

Johnsson-Ragnarson
Desjardins-Pitkanen
Markov-Seidenberg
Meyer

Esche/Nitty

A much crappier, but much cheaper team than what we had last year. Get used to it. This is what a salary cap team looks like.

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01-21-2005, 01:31 PM
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Only a question:The money of a buyout counts for the cap?

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01-21-2005, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galiza_Rules
Only a question:The money of a buyout counts for the cap?
who knows... no one.

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01-21-2005, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galiza_Rules
Only a question:The money of a buyout counts for the cap?
Its not even clear if contracts will be guaranteed once the season begins.

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01-21-2005, 04:15 PM
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Well if Timander is in fact gone, and Seidenberg is the #6 d-man who comes up after him? I guess we sign someone because the well is dry.

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01-21-2005, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
I think Knuble will be an impact player. Burke, Leclair and possibly Amonte will be bought out or dumped for AHL players. Seidenberg will play, and we will see no new free agent signings on D, maybe Jones or Meyer serving as the 7th D-man. Carter and Umberger will be signed and will play wing.

Gagne-Roenick-Carter
Knuble-Primeau-Kapanen
Brashear-Zeus-Radio
Stevenson -Sharp- Umberger
Somik

Johnsson-Ragnarson
Desjardins-Pitkanen
Markov-Seidenberg
Meyer

Esche/Nitty

A much crappier, but much cheaper team than what we had last year. Get used to it. This is what a salary cap team looks like.
Timander is above Meyer... and no way is Umberger ready to play at the NHL level quite yet... nor would i want him taking 4th line duty away from Somik -- who if nothing else can play solid D. leave Umberger with the phantoms getting big minutes and especially when Sharp comes up, getting a lot of PP time.

not that we are going to have a season after this last round of lunacy. on the upside, we're gonna get our 25 team league, since a few of these small market teams are not going to be able to survive coming out of the lockout if it goes through next winter. can you really see Atlanta, Nashville, etc... being able to survive without the novelty of new team, and now with people really just not caring?

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01-21-2005, 11:23 PM
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The only thing I'll say is that if teams like Atlanta, Nashville, Florida, Carolina, etc....don't survive, it should make for an awesome dispersal draft. Less teams, better players = better hockey. Let's support contraction through this time of CBA turmoil and trouble.

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01-21-2005, 11:51 PM
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For being a team with so much invested in defense, Flyers are awefully short on talented defencemen.

At the very moment...Forwards
Gagne-Roenick-Amonte
LeClair-Sharp-Knuble
Kapanen-Primeau-Stevenson
Somik-Handzus-Radivojevic
Defense
Johnsson-Markov
Ragnarsson-Pitkanen
Desjardinis-Timander
Goal
Esche-Nittymaki
As for right wing, I'd like Clarke show some interest in Tuzzi. I don't know if he'll ever be allowed back in the NHL or what not but I think it'll still be a good investment.


Last edited by Roger's Pancreas*: 01-22-2005 at 12:22 AM.
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01-21-2005, 11:57 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth
For being a team with so much invested in defense, Flyers are awefully short on talented defencemen
Hence the dispersal draft if some of the teams fold operations. I wouldn't mind seeing some young talent from some of the teams mentioned come to Philly. If Atlanta were to fold, I'd love to see Braydon Colburn in the orange and black. Maybe even Garnet Exelby as well.....

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01-22-2005, 05:02 AM
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To all you guys pencilling in Carter and Richards, dont you realise its a given that they will be joining the Leafs because its a well known fact that 100% of NHL players want to play for them and would even be willing to go to court to do so?

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01-22-2005, 05:04 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth
For being a team with so much invested in defense, Flyers are awefully short on talented defencemen.
look around the league... no one is very deep at defense. i would have loved to have kept woywitka around, but he hasn't exactly been amazing at the AHL level. with KJ, and Pitkanen you have one excellent dman, and one who should develop there. Rico is on the downside, but is still a strong defensive dman, with a little less offense than he used to have. Markov i like a lot. Rags is very very solid. Seidenberg is a fast skating dman, with a big shot... who doesn't want that? we may lack some depth, which i would like to have... but they certainly aren't hurting at the position.

plus who knows what UFA may have been on the agenda other than Malakhov?

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01-23-2005, 11:26 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
To all you guys pencilling in Carter and Richards, dont you realise its a given that they will be joining the Leafs because its a well known fact that 100% of NHL players want to play for them and would even be willing to go to court to do so?
Well if Carter were to come to the Leafs through trade...would this be a fair trade....not realistic since it would likely not happen but for value purposes:

TOR-Carter
PHI-Kaberle

Since it seems like you guys need a good young d-man and Carter would be an ideal first line centerman in a few years and who other than Mats Sundin to guide him along since which I see and others have concluded that they do play a similar style and Carter looks like a younger Sundin out there.

I dunno though I am just asking value wise, and that's fine if Jeff Carter is worth more than Kaberle but please give me an honest answer.

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01-24-2005, 07:58 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budman
Well if Carter were to come to the Leafs through trade...would this be a fair trade....not realistic since it would likely not happen but for value purposes:

TOR-Carter
PHI-Kaberle

Since it seems like you guys need a good young d-man and Carter would be an ideal first line centerman in a few years and who other than Mats Sundin to guide him along since which I see and others have concluded that they do play a similar style and Carter looks like a younger Sundin out there.

I dunno though I am just asking value wise, and that's fine if Jeff Carter is worth more than Kaberle but please give me an honest answer.

No. We don't necessarily need a good young d-man, we could used a 6-7th d-man though. And I don't want Aki Berg.

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01-24-2005, 08:26 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budman
Since it seems like you guys need a good young d-man and Carter would be an ideal first line centerman in a few years and who other than Mats Sundin to guide him along since which I see and others have concluded that they do play a similar style and Carter looks like a younger Sundin out there.
The Flyers need a good young first line center more.

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01-24-2005, 08:35 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Well if Timander is in fact gone, and Seidenberg is the #6 d-man who comes up after him? I guess we sign someone because the well is dry.
Ultimately our next great prospect on D is going to be Alex Picard, who is at least three or four years away from being NHL ready.

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