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Why don't the bigger markets have their own outdoor classic every year?

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Old
11-22-2012, 11:11 PM
  #1
kurt
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Why don't the bigger markets have their own outdoor classic every year?

Seems like it would be a good way for teams in a lot of the bigger markets to make a lot of money. Why don't some teams do it once a year?

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11-23-2012, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kurt View Post
Seems like it would be a good way for teams in a lot of the bigger markets to make a lot of money. Why don't some teams do it once a year?
Cheapen an event for the sake of money? Sounds about right.

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11-23-2012, 12:52 AM
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the league wouldnt allow it. the nhl would have to approve it and the equipment to make the outdoor rink belongs to the nhl.

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11-23-2012, 12:56 AM
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Seems like a great way to overdo it and water down the profitability...

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11-23-2012, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Cheapen an event for the sake of money? Sounds about right.
.... why not? You think 82 Regular Season Games is "reasonable"?

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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
the league wouldnt allow it. the nhl would have to approve it and the equipment to make the outdoor rink belongs to the nhl.
First part I tend to agree with you on, as the WC brings in millions and only because its "exclusive" to that one game per season. However, that being said, I do actually like the op's concept & thought process. Here in BC for example, forget the stadium surroundings, imagine it being played in Harmony Bowl at Whistler? In Alberta at Lake Louise in Banff or up at Jasper? An annual event against traditional rival$....

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11-23-2012, 01:36 AM
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the league wouldnt allow it. the nhl would have to approve it and the equipment to make the outdoor rink belongs to the nhl.
Well with that second point, I'm sure the teams could afford their own rink.

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11-23-2012, 06:26 AM
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I presume the only reason why the infrastructure is NHL owned is because it would be a nonsensical investment for an individual team to make simply for a one-off basis.

That said, I don't see why a select number of markets who feel it's financially viable couldn't share costs to make this happen (at least from a financial perspective). What kind of gate revenue do these events typically pull in?

It would be a great way to make themselves accessible to fans that may not be able to afford regular tickets too. Helps broaden their reach a little.

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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Cheapen an event for the sake of money? Sounds about right.
You do know that the event itself is for money, right?

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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
First part I tend to agree with you on, as the WC brings in millions and only because its "exclusive" to that one game per season. However, that being said, I do actually like the op's concept & thought process. Here in BC for example, forget the stadium surroundings, imagine it being played in Harmony Bowl at Whistler? In Alberta at Lake Louise in Banff or up at Jasper? An annual event against traditional rival$....
Those ideas seem like they would be more a preseason/training camp opportunity, as they would probably have less earning potential - not more. I was thinking more along the lines of BC Place.

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11-23-2012, 08:17 AM
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Yes, and on a rare ocassion they might invite one of those second-class markets to participate,... wouldn't that be nice. Hey, the second-class markets could eventually perhaps have their own outdoor classic, and perhaps then the winners of both classics could face each other.

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11-23-2012, 09:02 AM
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Is there something in the league bylaws that gives the NHL the right to determine venues (i.e. any venue used for a league contest must be "league approved" or something along those lines)? I would think so, and that would be a immediate block against any sort of activity of this nature.

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11-23-2012, 09:12 AM
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Well with that second point, I'm sure the teams could afford their own rink.
It's not a question of affording their own rink.

It's a matter of NHL coming up with an idea and keeping control over that event.

4 yrs ago, the Rangers tried wrestling control over the team website from league control. Bettman and the league sued, threatened to force Dolan to sell and eventually won in court.

Imo teams who tried bypassing the league, would be quickly slapped down.

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11-23-2012, 12:30 PM
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The simple answer to the OP is, they aren't allowed to do it.

There was some whispers last winter classic however that the league was thinking of expanding it to a number of games.

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11-23-2012, 02:58 PM
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The league is also interested in profitability, no?

Aren't the very rules of the league decided by the constituents of the league itself?

I don't see the rules as being an obstacle. Only a business case. And with revenue sharing in place, I'm sure most teams are interested in big markets taking advantage of their demand as best they can.

Also, I'm not trying to disrespect some of the weaker markets - not sure if my comment came off that way. I just think it's obvious not all markets have the demand to make something like this work.

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11-23-2012, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt View Post
Seems like it would be a good way for teams in a lot of the bigger markets to make a lot of money. Why don't some teams do it once a year?
It's too warm here, unless you do it in Northern BC.

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11-23-2012, 08:58 PM
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It's too warm here, unless you do it in Northern BC.
Think so? BC has shown interest pursuing the winter classic for BC Place, so I assume it would be a capability.

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11-23-2012, 09:19 PM
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If there are several outdoor games a year, they cease being special events.

I would say keep it at 2 maximum (WC and another one w/i a week or 2 in another location)

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11-23-2012, 09:38 PM
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Think so? BC has shown interest pursuing the winter classic for BC Place, so I assume it would be a capability.
... think you missed my point earlier there kurt in suggesting Whistler, Banff & Jasper. The entire purpose for holding outdoor games in those locales being climate & the natural beauty of the surroundings. Setting the stage for a true outdoor classic instead of setting it up in a stadium. Pre-season wouldnt work, not cold enough.... And seriously? BC place? Lousy choice as its about as "Outdoors" as rolling down the windows on your car and opening the sun-roof. Doesnt cut it and frankly moot, as the bottom line is the NHL simply wouldnt permit individual teams to stage games outdoors. Not happenin.

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11-23-2012, 11:00 PM
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... think you missed my point earlier there kurt in suggesting Whistler, Banff & Jasper. The entire purpose for holding outdoor games in those locales being climate & the natural beauty of the surroundings. Setting the stage for a true outdoor classic instead of setting it up in a stadium. Pre-season wouldnt work, not cold enough.... And seriously? BC place? Lousy choice as its about as "Outdoors" as rolling down the windows on your car and opening the sun-roof. Doesnt cut it and frankly moot, as the bottom line is the NHL simply wouldnt permit individual teams to stage games outdoors. Not happenin.
The problem I see is that it would be a gamble for the participating teams in terms of revenue. They would not make as much at the gate as a regular game and would have to compensate that shortfall by hoping TV ratings are higher enough (than a regular game). Would anyone other than fans of the teams playing + some hardcore hockey fans care?

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11-23-2012, 11:18 PM
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The problem I see is that it would be a gamble for the participating teams in terms of revenue. They would not make as much at the gate as a regular game and would have to compensate that shortfall by hoping TV ratings are higher enough (than a regular game). Would anyone other than fans of the teams playing + some hardcore hockey fans care?
That's exactly why I think BC Place would be a better option for Vancouver specifically - they could sell so many extra tickets for the event. A weekend game against a rival that draws well sells an extra 40,000 tickets at, say, $50 a pop for the extra seats (of course it would likely be double that)? You're looking at $2,000,000 right there. And a bunch of additional fans are getting to experience something they otherwise may not be able to.

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11-23-2012, 11:20 PM
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Takes a lot of money to set up a winter classic, would water down the event, and increase the risk of injuries to the players. 1 is enough.

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11-24-2012, 01:00 AM
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Takes a lot of money to set up a winter classic, would water down the event, and increase the risk of injuries to the players. 1 is enough.
Yeah, maybe the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Hard to say really. I'm sure the winter classic could actually be a pilot of sorts, but who knows. I'm not entirely sure a once a year thing would really dilute anything either.

It would be costly to pull off though, no doubt about that. And there is the injury risk of less than ideal ice, good point.

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11-24-2012, 01:05 AM
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I have heard that Ottawa wants to have one on the Rideau Canal. Would be a great idea in my opinion.

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11-24-2012, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
It's not a question of affording their own rink.

It's a matter of NHL coming up with an idea and keeping control over that event.

4 yrs ago, the Rangers tried wrestling control over the team website from league control. Bettman and the league sued, threatened to force Dolan to sell and eventually won in court.

Imo teams who tried bypassing the league, would be quickly slapped down.
The Edmonton Oilers came up with the idea.

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11-24-2012, 01:20 AM
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The Edmonton Oilers came up with the idea.
When? The Rangers played the Kings in an exhibition game on Las Vegas Strip in 1991.


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11-24-2012, 01:42 AM
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I have heard that Ottawa wants to have one on the Rideau Canal. Would be a great idea in my opinion.
... that would be terrific, though hasnt it been awhile since the Rideau's been safe enough to skate on much less hold up to substantial weight & re-top surfacing of the natural ice to bring it up to scratch? Parliament Hill would also be a great setting, portable bleachers, could jam as many as 50,000+ into the area fairly safely actually. Love to see the Flames play the Oilers on Lake Louise. The Canucks vs Toronto in the Harmony Bowl up at Whistler. All kinds of unique & interesting locations across the US rather than stadiums where you could charge an arm & leg, overnight packages, sponsorships etc.

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11-24-2012, 08:07 AM
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The Edmonton Oilers came up with the idea.
They copied it from the Michigan State Spartans and Michigan Wolverines "Cold War" game.

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