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09-27-2012, 07:40 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
It's not like he didn't know. This is no different than if Yak was on the Oil and said **** this noise I'm going to the KHL.
Except it is. How much does Sarnia pay him? Less than minimum wage.

Did he really know? I certainly didn't at that age. It's indentured servitude, and it's not right. Think about it in your life.. there is no way that an employer should "own your rights" and not allow you to work somewhere else.

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09-27-2012, 09:18 PM
  #327
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So whats the worst that could happen if he just decides to play in the KHL anyways?

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09-27-2012, 09:42 PM
  #328
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So whats the worst that could happen if he just decides to play in the KHL anyways?
Probably fines for his team and suspension from IIHF events.

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09-27-2012, 10:36 PM
  #329
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Nail Yakupov @ Nail10_1993
Just let the kid play and enjoy hockey. Plizzzz

No kidding

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09-28-2012, 12:12 AM
  #330
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The kid is finished school and ready to get a real job.

Even in the academic world, the Prof would be paying the masters/PhD student a sizeable stipend, from 30 to 60K+.

In this case, the OHL is in a unique situation, this player would guaranteed be ready for a pro league somewhere in the world. The OHL contract was in place "in case he wasn't ready" for the NHL, on the premise that he still had something to gain (learning) from the OHL.

He doesn't... employment lawyers would have a field day on this... preventing this person from earning a living in a profession where he is quite clearly at the top of his field for his age.

It's exploitation. All the benefits are on one side of the equation.
Great argument. Concise. Doesn't change the reality of the agreement that is currently in place however.

A lawyer would have a difficult time siding with your opinion based on the fact that Yaks only has one option to play outside of the NHL.

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09-28-2012, 12:49 AM
  #331
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I didn't realize that his contract with the Sting kept rolling after he signed a contract with the Oilers. I would think that they could now dictate his path.

Guess not.

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09-28-2012, 05:59 AM
  #332
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The problem here is it is all related to the lockout. If there were no lockout, he would be playing in the NHL and Sarnia would have nothing to claim. Given that, they should just let him play where he wants. It is unfortunate that timing and circumstance has forced Nail to tread on a line designed to protect the CHL. The transfer rule seems to be reasonable in normal circumstances, but these are anything but.

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09-28-2012, 07:30 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by oilphan View Post
The problem here is it is all related to the lockout. If there were no lockout, he would be playing in the NHL and Sarnia would have nothing to claim. Given that, they should just let him play where he wants. It is unfortunate that timing and circumstance has forced Nail to tread on a line designed to protect the CHL. The transfer rule seems to be reasonable in normal circumstances, but these are anything but.
Sarnia would have nothing to claim except the development fee from the Oilers, which they might forfeit if they have to release his rights before the NHL starts up.

That appears to be the crux of this battle:
Sarnia doesn't want to lose Yakupov's CHL rights, but as long as they hold them, he's considered under contract with the Sting and thus unable to be transferred to Russia.

For Jensen and Khokhlachev, they were already released by their respective junior clubs before transferring to Europe.

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09-28-2012, 08:20 AM
  #334
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Sarnia would have nothing to claim except the development fee from the Oilers, which they might forfeit if they have to release his rights before the NHL starts up.

That appears to be the crux of this battle:
Sarnia doesn't want to lose Yakupov's CHL rights, but as long as they hold them, he's considered under contract with the Sting and thus unable to be transferred to Russia.

For Jensen and Khokhlachev, they were already released by their respective junior clubs before transferring to Europe.
So if I understand you correctly, If Sarnia releases Yakupov's rights, he is no longer their property?

If this is right, what if an unlikely scenario played out where Yakupov did not make the Oilers this year? Since Sarnia no longer has his rights, Yakupov would have to go somewhere else for development.

If this is correct, it's a pretty dicey situation, even if it is unlikely that Yakupov doesn't make the team.

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09-28-2012, 08:22 AM
  #335
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Might be how it goes, I just don't understand how anyone agrees with it. It's exploitation pure and simple. The fact that anyone agrees that Sarnia has the right to do it is what boggles my mind.
It boggles my mind that the CHL's exploitation of these kids isn't a bigger deal. It's one thing to offer them post secondary schooling rather than cash compensation (they know full well that most players won't take advantage of it) but it is entirely another to deny them the right to make a living elsewhere.

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09-28-2012, 08:41 AM
  #336
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So if I understand you correctly, If Sarnia releases Yakupov's rights, he is no longer their property?

If this is right, what if an unlikely scenario played out where Yakupov did not make the Oilers this year? Since Sarnia no longer has his rights, Yakupov would have to go somewhere else for development.

If this is correct, it's a pretty dicey situation, even if it is unlikely that Yakupov doesn't make the team.
Yeah, I believe that's why this is all happening:

Sarnia doesn't want to release his CHL rights (which would involve waiving him and making him an OHL free agent). This would likely need OHL intervention to make sure another OHL club doesn't just snap up his rights and continue this Mexican stand-off.

On paper, as long as Sarnia owns his rights, he's considered under contract with them, which is how the CHL and Hockey Canada views the situation which is why Hockey Canada won't sign the transfer card.

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09-28-2012, 08:51 AM
  #337
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I don't think that's true. The fact he has an Oilers contract is likely what gives credit to the amateur/pro transfer agreement btwn the NHL and OHL. The OHL contract is an amateur contract. The only way Yak is forced to stay an amateur is if the Oilers deem him to be one (thereby enacting the transfer agreement clauses).

If he didn't sign with the oilers he would have been clear to declare himself a pro in any league not beholding to the NHL's draft agreement... of which the KHL is one.
Except the Oilers contract is currently void cause of the lockout. So what the oilers prefer is irrelevant.

IMO it comes down to money. Sarnia had to pay a transfer fee to get Yakupov to come over, it should work the same if he goes back.

The KHL team will probably just have to throw a few bucks to Sarnia.

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09-28-2012, 08:56 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Tw0Shoes View Post
Except it is. How much does Sarnia pay him? Less than minimum wage.

Did he really know? I certainly didn't at that age. It's indentured servitude, and it's not right. Think about it in your life.. there is no way that an employer should "own your rights" and not allow you to work somewhere else.
He has two agents, if he didn't know this then he should fire both of them.

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Old
09-28-2012, 09:41 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
Great argument. Concise. Doesn't change the reality of the agreement that is currently in place however.

A lawyer would have a difficult time siding with your opinion based on the fact that Yaks only has one option to play outside of the NHL.
Not sure I'd agree with that, in fact I think you are wrong... any decent lawyer would be able to argue it both ways, depending on who is paying therm.

It should be pretty easy for a reasonable lawyer to prove that the process that is in place is there to ensure that any player that is ready for the pros can play there, and that if they aren't ready, they can return to play amateur. The basic rationale goes out the window when the pro option is unavailable.

9/10 a judge would side with the individual...

My argument is based on personal experience with non-compete clauses in Intellectual Property/Design based industries. Regardless of every employment agreement having these clauses, they are almost impossible to uphold. Usually your only chance of upholding the clause is if you are still paying the employee a severance for the period of time you are expecting them not to work for your competitor. As long as the employee is able to prove that their skills are best put to work by working for your competitor, then the judge would never prevent them from earning a living... as the former employee you can't either, unless you can point to above normal compensation and a decent severance that would justify the waiting/non-compete period (fair exchange).

The only thing that could work against Yak in this case is if a judge deemed that his signing bonus is sufficient compensation for the Oilers to deny him working in another pro league.

But again... the oilers aren't active parties in this dispute right now... and they would never.

So Sarnia/Hockey Canada would be left to argue on their own... other than a contract that a judge would see right through, they'd have little going for them.

It would never go to court, so all of this is purely hypothetical. But Yak would win if it did.


Last edited by bucks_oil: 09-28-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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Old
09-28-2012, 09:47 AM
  #340
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Except the Oilers contract is currently void cause of the lockout. So what the oilers prefer is irrelevant.

IMO it comes down to money. Sarnia had to pay a transfer fee to get Yakupov to come over, it should work the same if he goes back.

The KHL team will probably just have to throw a few bucks to Sarnia.
Well I think the bolded is exactly my point... the Oilers contract is essentially suspended.

The Sarnia contract is an amateur one... and would provide them rights to a professional if there was an active, counterpart professional contract.

If a court deemed the Oilers contract to "not be in play" in this discussion, then Yak would be free to work where he wants. I believe he could legally challenge the IIHF/Hockey Canada and win.

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09-28-2012, 09:51 AM
  #341
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If this doesn't make it clear who messed up then I don't think I can help you guys:

Dmitry Chesnokov ‏@dchesnokov
Yakupov's dad is sort of blaming his agent Igor Larionov for the fiasco, says "Larionov's our agent now; don't know about the future."

Dmitry Chesnokov ‏@dchesnokov
Yakupov's dad says Nail will not go to Sarnia under any circumstances & if can't play in the KHL will just stay in Russia to train. #Oilers

Love the last comment, seems like your typical Russian.

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Old
09-28-2012, 10:04 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Dmitry Chesnokov ‏@dchesnokov
Yakupov's dad says Nail will not go to Sarnia under any circumstances & if can't play in the KHL will just stay in Russia to train. #Oilers

Love the last comment, seems like your typical Russian.
I'm Canadian, I'd have done the same thing.

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09-28-2012, 10:06 AM
  #343
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If this doesn't make it clear who messed up then I don't think I can help you guys:

Dmitry Chesnokov ‏@dchesnokov
Yakupov's dad is sort of blaming his agent Igor Larionov for the fiasco, says "Larionov's our agent now; don't know about the future."

Dmitry Chesnokov ‏@dchesnokov
Yakupov's dad says Nail will not go to Sarnia under any circumstances & if can't play in the KHL will just stay in Russia to train. #Oilers

Love the last comment, seems like your typical Russian.
meh not worried, sounds like major frustration from Yak's camp

he's been saying he isn't going to Sarnia for months now

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09-28-2012, 10:06 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
If this doesn't make it clear who messed up then I don't think I can help you guys:

Dmitry Chesnokov ‏@dchesnokov
Yakupov's dad is sort of blaming his agent Igor Larionov for the fiasco, says "Larionov's our agent now; don't know about the future."

Dmitry Chesnokov ‏@dchesnokov
Yakupov's dad says Nail will not go to Sarnia under any circumstances & if can't play in the KHL will just stay in Russia to train. #Oilers

Love the last comment, seems like your typical Russian.
If not allowing yourself to get pushed into doing something against your will is typically Russian, I respect Russians for it.

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09-28-2012, 10:13 AM
  #345
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Maybe it's just me, but this is a blessing in disguise. Larionov seems like a kid at times, Yak firing him as a result of this would make me happy.

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09-28-2012, 10:13 AM
  #346
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If yakupov loses a whole year I will be so mad.

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Old
09-28-2012, 10:15 AM
  #347
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I'm Canadian, I'd have done the same thing.
I'm just talking in the sense of if we don't get what we want we are going to take are ball and go home type of comment.

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09-28-2012, 10:23 AM
  #348
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If not allowing yourself to get pushed into doing something against your will is typically Russian, I respect Russians for it.
So then it's okay for Yakupov to use Sarnia as a means for when it's convenient for him(trying to get drafted into the NHL). But once he has what he needs then it's perfectly okay for him to throw up the proverbial middle finger?

I've leanred a lot of things in my life and am still learning many things. But one of the biggest things I've learned is that respect is a two-way street. Took some time to come to that conclusion but it honestly is.

If you're going to make the argument that he's bettering his life by getting paid more fairly, the kid will have lots of opportunity to get paid a handsome amount. In all honesty this is a situation that only occurs due to the lockout and if Yakupov is making this short-term decision based on money and bettering his life like some suggest then he really needs to ask himself if he wants to be involved in such an organization like the NHL.

I mean it might be every kids dream to play in and make the NHL but is it really worth all the political bs to get there? If he thinks so then these are the sour grapes that he's going to have to eat along the road to get there.

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09-28-2012, 10:27 AM
  #349
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I'm just talking in the sense of if we don't get what we want we are going to take are ball and go home type of comment.
But he was already at home

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09-28-2012, 10:30 AM
  #350
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So then it's okay for Yakupov to use Sarnia as a means for when it's convenient for him(trying to get drafted into the NHL). But once he has what he needs then it's perfectly okay for him to throw up the proverbial middle finger?
Did Hall, RNH, Gagner and Hemsky feel bad about leaving their junior clubs when they had eligibility left? The Spitfires could have gone for a threepeat, the Rebels could have made the playoffs, etc..

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