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Will the lockout benefit the Avs?

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Old
09-16-2012, 02:25 PM
  #1
PAZ
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Will the lockout benefit the Avs?

Let's ignore the politics of the lockout, that can be said in the other thread. If there is a lengthy lockout, would it have a positive impact for our player development? A year in a weaker league would help build Duchene's confidence back up, gives Barrie, Elliot, and Gaunce top pairing minutes in a very competitive AHL league, etc. Would there really be much downside to a lockout, from a pure competitive standpoint?

The only really negative I can see is Hejduk declining/retiring.

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09-16-2012, 02:38 PM
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No, it won't. A young team like ours needs to be playing together to develop properly and they won't be doing that.

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09-16-2012, 02:43 PM
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Foppa2118
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Absolutely no positive whatsoever.

Elliott, Barrie, and Gaunce likely would start the season in the AHL unless they prove they are ready anyway. Every minute Landeskog, Duchene, Varly, EJ, and everyone else still developing spends playing games outside the NHL they are stagnating their development.

They need to be learning from NHL coaches, and NHL teammates, and figuring out first hand how to raise their game to the level needed in the NHL.

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09-16-2012, 04:05 PM
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The avs wont benefit, but they wont lose as much as other teams. No team in the league will actually benefit from a lockout, but some will be hurt more than others, the avs will be hurt a lot less than most teams.

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09-16-2012, 05:09 PM
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If the lockout only takes away half of the season, it could be a big benefit for a Sacco-coached team that usually starts off hot. With less games they won't be as likely to succumb to a Sacco-coached second-half collapse, and will most likely squeak into the playoffs.

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09-16-2012, 05:49 PM
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Christian Litscher
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No one benefits.

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09-16-2012, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
No, it won't. A young team like ours needs to be playing together to develop properly and they won't be doing that.
This. Yes, our players won't be developing as well in other leagues, I would assume.

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09-16-2012, 07:48 PM
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Avs_19
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Overall I don't think it will benefit the Avs but it could be good if Hishon gets healthy and plays well in the AHL. He could play for the Avs once the season starts (January?) if he has a couple of good months in the AHL.

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09-16-2012, 08:53 PM
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Individual results for different players to be honest, BUT it will set back our development/re-build yet another year.

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09-16-2012, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
They need to be learning from NHL coaches, and NHL teammates, and figuring out first hand how to raise their game to the level needed in the NHL.
This just reminded me, our coaches suck and we don't exactly have good experienced teammates lol so maybe not the worst thing.

It all depends on the players and how hard they continue to work, if they stay motivated, if they choose the right league to play in etc.

The Rangers for example are planning to rent rinks and continue to practise together for the near future before a bunch of them go Euro at least.

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09-16-2012, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Individual results for different players to be honest, BUT it will set back our development/re-build yet another year.
you know , there a good side on every situation , if we miss the playoff maybe they will show Sacco the door .

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09-16-2012, 09:37 PM
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I think a lockout hurts a team like the Avs more than others. Reason being is we are so young we need all the playing time together we can get so we can gel and get better. Veteran teams aren't going to be hurt as much as a team like ours, they don't need that gel and get better time like us.

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09-16-2012, 09:43 PM
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Only benefit if there is a whole year lockout is the potential of getting a really good draft pick in a really good draft.

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09-16-2012, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Only benefit if there is a whole year lockout is the potential of getting a really good draft pick in a really good draft.
God a top 5 lotory pick would be nice, I would be willing to forgive them because they cost me a full year of Hockey , if we could land a top 5.

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09-16-2012, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
you know , there a good side on every situation , if we miss the playoff maybe they will show Sacco the door .
LoL. Up until the latter part of the last season, believe it or not, I was a Sacco advocate. The end of season fade though got me.

I still believe given the cattle he's provided with, he's not doing too badly all things considered.

People need to remember, if we lose Sacco during the year, the new coach will then be our 4th (Granato, Quenneville, Sacco, NEW) in 5-6 years.

That leads me to the theory that maybe it's NOT the coach. Quenneville is a quality specimen, and he couldn't get it done.

I just think it's the stock/cattle we have. I also believe it's the culture (I'm huge on culture). I also believe culture is driven from the top down, and that's from ownership, to the people who clean Pepsi Center.

You often hear about how happy players are when their ownership invests in order to win championships. Weber stated as much in his contract negotiation. Players also consider this when deciding on whether to exercise a no-move clause.

I ask you guys this:-

If your a player considering various possible destinations, do you believe as it stands at present Avs brass are investing in talent to help you develop to your true potential, and surround you with class?

Culture. I'm HUGE on culture.

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09-16-2012, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
LoL. Up until the latter part of the last season, believe it or not, I was a Sacco advocate. The end of season fade though got me.

I still believe given the cattle he's provided with, he's not doing too badly all things considered.

People need to remember, if we lose Sacco during the year, the new coach will then be our 4th (Granato, Quenneville, Sacco, NEW) in 5-6 years.

That leads me to the theory that maybe it's NOT the coach. Quenneville is a quality specimen, and he couldn't get it done.

I just think it's the stock/cattle we have. I also believe it's the culture (I'm huge on culture). I also believe culture is driven from the top down, and that's from ownership, to the people who clean Pepsi Center.

You often hear about how happy players are when their ownership invests in order to win championships. Weber stated as much in his contract negotiation. Players also consider this when deciding on whether to exercise a no-move clause.

I ask you guys this:-

If your a player considering various possible destinations, do you believe as it stands at present Avs brass are investing in talent to help you develop to your true potential, and surround you with class?

Culture. I'm HUGE on culture.
On coach Q i'll give you that , but Granato had an insane roster at one point and he looked like a pee-wee . Of course the lineup have something to do with the success of a coach , but it's also his job to bring his team to another level , and i dont see Sacco being able to do so in a near future .

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09-16-2012, 10:19 PM
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Avs_19
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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
you know , there a good side on every situation , if we miss the playoff maybe they will show Sacco the door .
I've been saying that for the last two years. Still hasn't happened. Maybe third time will be the charm.

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Only benefit if there is a whole year lockout is the potential of getting a really good draft pick in a really good draft.
We would probably get screwed in the lottery just like 2005.

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09-16-2012, 10:36 PM
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A young team needs experience more than anything. Also, Avs should be relatively healthy so some extra time off doesn't benefit us that much. Hejda and Downie having surgeries during the summer are the two I can think of.

Avs are a bit streaky so perhaps a shortened season might help their chances of making the post-season if they get off to a good start. But it might as well go the other way, so I'm not sure that's an advantage.

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Old
09-16-2012, 10:51 PM
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Bender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
LoL. Up until the latter part of the last season, believe it or not, I was a Sacco advocate. The end of season fade though got me.

I still believe given the cattle he's provided with, he's not doing too badly all things considered.

People need to remember, if we lose Sacco during the year, the new coach will then be our 4th (Granato, Quenneville, Sacco, NEW) in 5-6 years.

That leads me to the theory that maybe it's NOT the coach. Quenneville is a quality specimen, and he couldn't get it done.


I just think it's the stock/cattle we have. I also believe it's the culture (I'm huge on culture). I also believe culture is driven from the top down, and that's from ownership, to the people who clean Pepsi Center.

You often hear about how happy players are when their ownership invests in order to win championships. Weber stated as much in his contract negotiation. Players also consider this when deciding on whether to exercise a no-move clause.

I ask you guys this:-

If your a player considering various possible destinations, do you believe as it stands at present Avs brass are investing in talent to help you develop to your true potential, and surround you with class?

Culture. I'm HUGE on culture.
Not really sure what you're getting at. None of those coaches had even close to a contending roster to work with and neither does Sacco to this point.

- Any team counting on Patrice Brisebois to be a top-4 d-man, ain't going no where.
- Any team with Tyler 'we think he can help us' Arnason as a 2nd line center, ain't going no where.
- Any team hoping that Vitali Kolesnik is going to help out in goal, ain't going nowhere fast.
- Any team with a Budaj/Raycroft combo is going to finish near the bottom of the league.

I've had a lot criticism for a good chunk of those coaches for their daily decisions but my personal expectations were never for any of those teams to actually win the Stanley Cup. If you have such expectations, then I can sort of understand your frustration with these teams but you are setting yourself up for disappointment big time.

I don't buy into the whole 'losing culture' stuff. We had a previous regime, they tried to rebuild 'on the fly' with a poor core and an aging Sakic and it all fell apart miserably. Neither Granato nor Quenneville have ever coached Duchene, O'Reilly or the rest of the young guys. Only Stastny, Hejduk, McLeod and Jones ever even experienced someone other that Sacco as coach as members of the Avs, so where would the culture stuff be coming from...them?

Besides, guys like Sakic, Foote, Leschysyn & Kamensky made it out of some pretty bad years before winning the cup in '96 and there wasn't much made about any 'losing' culture at that time. Granted, a good portion of that roster was turned-over to create the Avs that first year in Denver but that's not say it won't happen again or that it isn't happening again right now. (McGinn, Downie, Parenteau added to our core)

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09-16-2012, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevekento19 View Post
The avs wont benefit, but they wont lose as much as other teams. No team in the league will actually benefit from a lockout, but some will be hurt more than others, the avs will be hurt a lot less than most teams.
this

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09-16-2012, 11:09 PM
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Lets see a year of Sacco NOT ****ing with their heads? That might be a good thing.

In all honesty, who knows? I mean, Teemu came back a TANK again after the lockout. Maybe it might do the same for Stastny/Duchene (mentally, not physically - tho the guys could work out some with Lando & RoR).

We'll see how the team is after the lockout to see if it helped or not. Sometimes being away from the game helps too - could easily just as harm but still.

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09-16-2012, 11:46 PM
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Only benefit if there is a whole year lockout is the potential of getting a really good draft pick in a really good draft.
I simulated the lottery a bunch of times for curiosity's sake and our pick feel everywhere from #2-#26. Probably averaged around #16

Could get a good pick or could get screwed.

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09-17-2012, 12:26 AM
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Lets see a year of Sacco NOT ****ing with their heads? That might be a good thing.

In all honesty, who knows? I mean, Teemu came back a TANK again after the lockout. Maybe it might do the same for Stastny/Duchene (mentally, not physically - tho the guys could work out some with Lando & RoR).

We'll see how the team is after the lockout to see if it helped or not. Sometimes being away from the game helps too - could easily just as harm but still.
This is what my opinion is. It gives players like Stastny and Duchene to gain their confidence back up. Staz just had a good WC, and Duchene will be able to dominate whatever league he plays in. We had some good chemistry before the home stretch, I don't that's going to be an issue.

Our players need experience, but I don't think it's going to be a huge deal when a few were struggling to begin with. This gives them time to refocus. I don't see players like Downie, RoR, Landy having their game impacted much by the lockout. In comparison to the rest of the league, the Avs are sitting pretty.

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09-17-2012, 01:33 AM
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it could easily destroy everything were trying to build.
all of our young players need to be playing and developing, EJ in particular IMO (i single him out specifically because hes already missed one full season to injury)

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09-17-2012, 02:07 AM
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it could easily destroy everything were trying to build.
all of our young players need to be playing and developing,
Agreed. Tho I think when you have a young team like ours its great to have some international experience if they go out and get it. I mean **** I am 20 and seeing a new country, learning a new language has helped me grow.

Whats to say it couldn't help these guys? Maturity and experience off the ice is sometimes more valuable than on it.

Plus if they do end up going down to the AHL it'll still have them build that "team love". If they just take a year off that could be great as well - these guys have played hockey for 90%+ of their lives - they won't just drop it/stop thinking about it.

Now, I understand that all of these could just as easily hurt the players. But no reason to panic (not saying you or anyone else is), just wait and see how the team is after when they start playing.

Quote:
EJ in particular IMO (i single him out specifically because hes already missed one full season to injury)
I think a year off is great for him actually. It'll take the pressure he puts on himself off and, being the self motivated person he is, he'll train to get stronger. Recoving from his Golf cart injury would take a few years and I still think it hasn't fully healed judging by how he played in his rookie year to now.

Plus he needs to clam down and think about things - its the reason why I think he played like a BAMF after coming back form his injury.

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