HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Evander Kane Re-Signs (6 years, $31.5m/5.25m per)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-17-2012, 12:33 AM
  #101
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
The Eternal Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
Have you ever seen a game in Edmonton? There is no building in the NHL that's as loud as Rexall Place when the Oilers are winning. None that even come close. My ears were honestly ringing for two days after the 9-2 win over the Blackhawks last year. The noise level when the Oilers went to the finals in 2006 was enough to permanently damage your hearing within minutes.

I understand that the Jets 1.0 and the Oilers dynasty had a rivalry, but this is a different Jets franchise, and that dynasty is long dead. The Edmonton bashing on this forum is absolutely ridiculous, especially considering that Winnipeg really is just a smaller version of Edmonton. The cities are almost identical.
Having lived in both Edmonton and Winnipeg for extended periods of time (5+ years minimum in both), I feel I am kinda suited for this discussion...

I was at the 06 finals. In fact I was at every playoff game that year. I was at the Jets home opener this year. I was at the Selanne return this year. There is no comparaison. Winnipeg Jets home opener this season (regular season) was by far the loudest building I have ever been into. It was unreal. Nothing can compare. The amazing this was the way it was sustained, even through a thorough beat down by MTL. Whole game was insane. That being said, Game 6 of the Oilers Final in 06 was probably #2. It was crazy. The Hemsky to Samsonov game winner versus Detroit was the loudest single event I've ever heard (other than the puck drop for WPG Game 1). That was a beyond crazy celey. And the first period of the ANA-WPG game this year was right up there as well, probably the loudest sustained period that is possible. It was all great, no doubt, but really the whole atmosphere that first game in Winnipeg was just too much.

The problem is that Winnipeg's building is just designed to be louder. I can sit in the top row of the upper in MTS and still be way closer to the ice than some seats in the lower bowl in Rexall. Rexall is more open, the seats are just way further back from the rink. MTS is built basically one on top of the other, creates a more "intimate" atmosphere that Rexall will never be able to duplicate. It's why WPG will always sound louder during goals, other "average" celebrations, etc, it's just the design of the new arena. It's nothing against Oil fans versus Jet fans.

The fervor of Winnipeg this year far surpasses anything you will see in EDM these days. In fact, you will never even be able to replicate it in WPG, nevermind anywhere else. It was all Jets, all the time. The factors that played into that (ie 15 years without, the ST drive, etc) just made it the perfect storm. It's nothing against EDM. But this year is impossible for any city to replicate (like I said, including WPG). Trust me, these "Kane problems" and stuff are very similiar to the situations in EDM. I was a high level player in EDM, so I had access to some people with stories there, and I obviously can't say anything here, but EDM creates A LOT of the same problems through the passion and "smallness" of the city (in the right circles).

Truth is, you are completely right. Winnipeg and Edmonton are basically the same damn city. Both face the exact same problems, both are very similiar in most regards. Winnipeg might be a little more "artsy" and Edmonton a lot more "blue collar", but really they are very similiar cities. More so than anybody in either city wants to admit I think.

Anyways, long post I know, but that's my take on that.

Holden Caulfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 12:40 AM
  #102
Skidooboy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
No amount of Edmonton bashing is ever enough.
^^ SOOOOO MUCH THIS!!!!!!!!!!

the fued Between the Jets and the Oilers is alive and well. no matter the Decade, Franchise Owner, division, conference, regular season, playoffs, Cup finals whatever. SCREW THE OILERS. May they forever burn in HOCKEY'S DEPEST LEVEL OF HELL!

Skidooboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 12:45 AM
  #103
Skidooboy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidooboy View Post
^^ SOOOOO MUCH THIS!!!!!!!!!!

the fued Between the Jets and the Oilers is alive and well. no matter the Decade, Franchise Owner, division, conference, regular season, playoffs, Cup finals whatever. SCREW THE OILERS. May they forever burn in HOCKEY'S DEPEST LEVEL OF HELL!
That said Edmonton is a great hockey town with an other nice things and people.

Skidooboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 12:46 AM
  #104
Lux Aurumque*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Norway
Posts: 15,653
vCash: 500
Thank you for the unbiased post, Holden. I haven't been able to see a game in Winnipeg yet. I was planning to go out during our site shutdown in December, but I'm honestly not betting on this lockout ending any time soon.

Nonetheless, my point was mostly that Edmonton is definitely NOT a quiet city when it comes to hockey.

Perhaps the reason for the YEG-YWG rivalry is more based off similarities than differences. Yeah, we had the 5 time cup winner out here, and knocked out the Jets 1.0 in most playoff years, but it's like two cities fighting to basically be better at the same things...kinda like how Edmonton and Calgary fight to be the better Alberta city (Although, let's be honest. Calgary's just ******** that they aren't the capital).

It's nice to see the Eberle/Hall/Schultz signings, along with the Kane/Pavelec/Bogosian signings finally proving that good young players ARE willing to commit themselves to teams on the prairies. No more of this Pronger/Heatley/Nylander crap.

Anyways, we're getting off track here. I hope Kane can progress. Perhaps the lockout will serve him well. I wonder where he decides to play...

Lux Aurumque* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 12:47 AM
  #105
DespoticNewt
Registered User
 
DespoticNewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,975
vCash: 932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
Have you ever seen a game in Edmonton? There is no building in the NHL that's as loud as Rexall Place when the Oilers are winning. None that even come close. My ears were honestly ringing for two days after the 9-2 win over the Blackhawks last year. The noise level when the Oilers went to the finals in 2006 was enough to permanently damage your hearing within minutes.

I understand that the Jets 1.0 and the Oilers dynasty had a rivalry, but this is a different Jets franchise, and that dynasty is long dead. The Edmonton bashing on this forum is absolutely ridiculous, especially considering that Winnipeg really is just a smaller version of Edmonton. The cities are almost identical.



$2-2.5 million/season at most. That's all he's earned thus far.
I don't think you understand. Our rivalry was only acted out through our franchise teams. Just because the Jets left for 15 years does not mean our passions left with them.

DespoticNewt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 12:50 AM
  #106
atl thrasher344
Believe in Blueland
 
atl thrasher344's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
$2-2.5 million/season at most. That's all he's earned thus far.
You do realize that would be a decrease in his cap-hit, right? He apparently wasn't even worth the cap-space he was taking up on his ELC?

atl thrasher344 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 01:05 AM
  #107
Skidooboy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 585
vCash: 500
I love this singing.

Kane ,,,, ahh what do I think of Evander? I think he was in danger of turning into a primadonna, Bigger than the team kinda guy. i don't think his time in Atlanta helped him in that regard. I think if he is serieously considering being here for a long term then he might be on the right path.

I don't trust his soundbites about loving it here anymore than i trust the rumors he wanted out. he still might have signed here because offersheets were few and far between so he held out as long as possible for the max amount and then signed knowing he can probably get a trade later.

Skidooboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 01:57 AM
  #108
wpgsilver
HFBoards Sponsor
 
wpgsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,394
vCash: 100
Not gonna quote it due to length, but great post Holden. Nice to read a truly informed perspective.

wpgsilver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 02:32 AM
  #109
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 9,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidooboy View Post
I love this singing.

Kane ,,,, ahh what do I think of Evander? I think he was in danger of turning into a primadonna, Bigger than the team kinda guy. i don't think his time in Atlanta helped him in that regard. I think if he is serieously considering being here for a long term then he might be on the right path.

I don't trust his soundbites about loving it here anymore than i trust the rumors he wanted out. he still might have signed here because offersheets were few and far between so he held out as long as possible for the max amount and then signed knowing he can probably get a trade later.
I like Kane. I think he plays hard and physical, and is hard to play against. I liked how he battled Doughty on every shift when the Jets played LA this year. Like all young stars, he needs to have good veteran leadership. The Jets probably still need one or two higher end players that can play that role. But none of us really know how things are in the locker room.

Even if Kane has a hard time fitting into the team culture and becomes a bit of a "prima donna", it seems unlikely that he won't continue to develop as a big, fast, scoring winger. He will have high value to other teams. So locking him up for 6 years on a good contract means that Winnipeg has a valuable player secured. If they need to trade him in a few years, he will be easy to trade and the Jets will be able to get top value for him due to the length and amount of his contract.

All around, it is a win for the Jets.

Whileee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 02:36 AM
  #110
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 11,358
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
WAY too much money, but Boston set the bar for these types of players with the Marchand and Lucic overpayments.

He needs to start playing better. He has been very underwhelming for the most part. Yes, he scored 30 goals one year, but he's extremely streaky, selfish and one-dimensional. He has all the tools, now we get to see if he can put them together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicGingy View Post
He's shown steady improvement throughout 3 years, and he got 30 goals as a 20 year-old.

He's going to be worth this price, if Scheifele reaches his potential, that'll make Kane light it up. And hasn't somebody on this board posted some stats that shows Kane isn't one-dimensional?

I think it was Truck, not entirely sure, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potrzebie View Post
Garret is usually the man with the stats for all occasions.
Not sure if this is what you meant from my Jets statistical analysis thread (available to all of you on the second page):
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Individual Analysis
...
Kane: Does he have an attitude? Maybe. Can he score? 1.26 5v5 G/60 says heck yes. Ironically he is constantly gets type-casted as one-dimensional, yet he’s statistically proven to elevate the players around him, decently produces A/60 and has historically done well on the penalty kill. The role he plays is the role that has been given to him and he does it well...

But ask and ye shall receive... I'll make one special for here:


Comparing Kane against his peers:
For all LW, Kane was 23rd in pts, 14th in goals, 30th in assists.
For all LW 5v5 */60 with +30 GP he comes 10th in p/60, 5th in g/60 (Neal was 9th), and 42nd for a1/60.
For the entire NHL (regardless of position and TOI) Kane had the most shots on net at even strength.
This tells me he's an elite scoring LW - if he sustains this and being a shot volume guy, especially so much and at a young age, means he most likely will -.


Now let's look at the 5v5 advance stats (most people here start groaning):
NamePOS GP TOI/60 CORSION CORSIQoC OZS G/60 A1/60 A2/60 P/60
EKANE LW 74 14.74 06.21 -0.736 57.6 1.26 0.55 0.60 2.42
RelToTeam LW 74 04 06 11 05 01 05 02 01
*RelToTeam is his placement for all forwards who played 30+ games on the Jets
He has solid Corsi and point production but has been predominately facing third line forwards and second line pairing. It should be noted, Kane's production did not drop when he was facing tougher competition with his time on the top line.


Okay so we all know Kane can generate shots and scoring but what about being "one-dimensional":
Let's take a look at 2010-2011 season in Atlanta where Kane was used on the PK:
NamePOS GP CORSION RelCorsi
EKANE LW 73 02 01
Given enough PK minutes, Kane and Wheeler would of been Atlanta's best PK tandem... Although this year Burmistrov and Ladd blew those past numbers out of the water (ie: they were even better).


One of my ultimate favourite things to look at is With/Without you stats. Looking at how a teammate's corsi or +/- can change with or without a player:
NameGF%withPOS GF%without CF%with CF%withouti
ABURMISTROV 0.562 0.476 0.550 0.506
BWHEELER 0.625 0.439 0.520 0.539
KWELLWOOD 0.552 0.543 0.577 0.544
BLITTLE 0.640 0.514 0.520 0.545
0.500 means even so >0.500 would be good for Jets.
Without Kane means they were most likely with Ladd, and if anyone says Ladd is a one-dimensional player than... yea, get out...
To get similar (sometimes better) results than Ladd would suggest that he is very unlikely to be one-dimensional.


Final Synopsis:
Kane is already an elite scorer and will likely maintain these figures (as shown by his high shot volume) for a while sitting at mid 30s for goals over the next few years. Not bad for someone who spent most of his ice time with Burmi, Welly/Antro, Stuart, Bogosian as a 5 piece.
For next season I hope he spends one more season on the second line with Jokinen-Welly/Burmi to further refine his game and take advantage playing against bottom6 grinding forwards, but I also hope Noel places Jokinen and Kane on the 1st PP line with Wheeler.
For not-so-distant future I see Kane as our undisputed 1st line LW. He will likely be mid-to-high 30's goal scorer who could pass 40 in solid PP years.


Oh and PS.... Streaky is just as bad as a term as it gets. Super subjective. Think about this: Parise vs Jokinen. Yes we all know Parise is a better player but one is called streaky while the other is called consistent... yet they had similar points-per-game and similar scoring droughts (in both number and duration). For Jets fans you could change the names to Wellwood and Antropov and also get the same thing (in fact they were almost identical).


Last edited by garret9: 09-17-2012 at 10:38 AM. Reason: had all my tables in quotes... oops
garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 03:00 AM
  #111
Kesler2Kesler
Yup
 
Kesler2Kesler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post



$2-2.5 million/season at most. That's all he's earned thus far.
wait wat

Kesler2Kesler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 09:37 AM
  #112
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,600
vCash: 958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post

The Edmonton bashing on this forum is absolutely ridiculous, especially considering that Winnipeg really is just a smaller version of Edmonton. The cities are almost identical.
You think the Edmonton Bashing on this forum is ridiculous? Besides people responding to your Edmonton love, people here don't really talk about Edmonton much at all.

If you want to see some bashing, read the Edmonton forum and see what they think of Winnipeg.

Huffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 09:49 AM
  #113
GrandChelems
Registered User
 
GrandChelems's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,784
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
Have you ever seen a game in Edmonton? There is no building in the NHL that's as loud as Rexall Place when the Oilers are winning. None that even come close. My ears were honestly ringing for two days after the 9-2 win over the Blackhawks last year. The noise level when the Oilers went to the finals in 2006 was enough to permanently damage your hearing within minutes.
There is no reason to have this argument, from either Jets or Oilers fan perspectives. I've seen playoff games in both arenas, and I've seen regular season games after long stretches of losing seasons in both arenas.

Both sets of crowds are amazing, dedicated, knowledgeable, hockey fans. Put the shoe on the other foot and you've have the same situation.Right now Edmonton is a little quiet - with a lot of excitement building - and Winnipeg is "off the hook".

Calgary on the other hand ...

GrandChelems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 09:51 AM
  #114
Puckschmuck*
Doan Shall Be Boo'ed
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,937
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
If you want to see some bashing, read the Edmonton forum and see what they think of Winnipeg.
Exactly.

Puckschmuck* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 12:28 PM
  #115
Lux Aurumque*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Norway
Posts: 15,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
You think the Edmonton Bashing on this forum is ridiculous? Besides people responding to your Edmonton love, people here don't really talk about Edmonton much at all.

If you want to see some bashing, read the Edmonton forum and see what they think of Winnipeg.
I only post "Edmonton love" in response to "Edmonton hate".

And I do frequent the Oilers forum. I've never seen a single bad thing said about Winnipeg.

Lux Aurumque* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 12:33 PM
  #116
Brian Cadle Fan
Registered User
 
Brian Cadle Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 210
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
Have you ever seen a game in Edmonton? There is no building in the NHL that's as loud as Rexall Place when the Oilers are winning. None that even come close. My ears were honestly ringing for two days after the 9-2 win over the Blackhawks last year. The noise level when the Oilers went to the finals in 2006 was enough to permanently damage your hearing within minutes.

I understand that the Jets 1.0 and the Oilers dynasty had a rivalry, but this is a different Jets franchise, and that dynasty is long dead. The Edmonton bashing on this forum is absolutely ridiculous, especially considering that Winnipeg really is just a smaller version of Edmonton. The cities are almost identical.



$2-2.5 million/season at most. That's all he's earned thus far.
I've only been to one game in Edmonton, which is a pretty small sample size, but I thought I'd stumbled in to a church. Absolutely the deadest crowd I have ever seen. The Oilers won the game, I think 3 - 1. Whenever Edm scored, a handful of fans would jump up and cheer, then look embarrassed and quickly sit back down. It was several years ago. I'm glad to hear things have improved.

Brian Cadle Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 12:47 PM
  #117
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,600
vCash: 958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
I only post "Edmonton love" in response to "Edmonton hate".

And I do frequent the Oilers forum. I've never seen a single bad thing said about Winnipeg.
That's rich. And totally false.

Huffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 12:54 PM
  #118
Lux Aurumque*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Norway
Posts: 15,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
That's rich. And totally false.
I'm probably the only person on HF that frequents both boards and is a fan of both teams. It's a very rare mix of fandom. Just sayin'.

Lux Aurumque* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 01:21 PM
  #119
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,600
vCash: 958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
I'm probably the only person on HF that frequents both boards and is a fan of both teams. It's a very rare mix of fandom. Just sayin'.
That's cool. I like to browse all the team forums from time to time and read what they're saying. I rarely post in another team's forum, as I've learned it's a lot smoother to just be a silent guest.

And I don't have anything against Edmonton. I have family there, as well as Red Deer, Calgary, Vancouver, and gasp, Regina. I also spent 2 years in school out in Alberta.

My comment originates from what I observed last Spring and Summer during the build up to Winnipeg getting the Jets. There was some positivity there, but a lot more negativity. A lot of the old, Winnipeg is too small, too poor, didn't work before, type stuff. Which is ironic because Edmonton had one foot out the door but was saved with one big factor being that they were allowed something we were not, group ownership.

I also made the mistake of going into the Eskimo thread last year to wish them good luck. Lot's of hate directed towards Winnipeg there. And not to the team, to the city.

Huffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 01:30 PM
  #120
tbcwpg
Registered User
 
tbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
That's cool. I like to browse all the team forums from time to time and read what they're saying. I rarely post in another team's forum, as I've learned it's a lot smoother to just be a silent guest.

And I don't have anything against Edmonton. I have family there, as well as Red Deer, Calgary, Vancouver, and gasp, Regina. I also spent 2 years in school out in Alberta.

My comment originates from what I observed last Spring and Summer during the build up to Winnipeg getting the Jets. There was some positivity there, but a lot more negativity. A lot of the old, Winnipeg is too small, too poor, didn't work before, type stuff. Which is ironic because Edmonton had one foot out the door but was saved with one big factor being that they were allowed something we were not, group ownership.

I also made the mistake of going into the Eskimo thread last year to wish them good luck. Lot's of hate directed towards Winnipeg there. And not to the team, to the city.
I get the rivalry and stuff between Edmonton and Winnipeg, but I also have looked into the Eskimo thread a few times and there's really only one poster I can think of off the top of my head who's really anti-Winnipeg, I'm sure both of us are thinking of the same guy. I don't think it's really worse from one side or the other.

tbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 01:30 PM
  #121
Hank Chinaski
Mod Supervisor
 
Hank Chinaski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,082
vCash: 500
Ok, I think that's it for the Edmonton discussion. Kudos to everyone for standing your ground while keeping it civil, but it's really not on-topic for this thread.

Hank Chinaski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 01:36 PM
  #122
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 11,358
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Ok, I think that's it for the Edmonton discussion. Kudos to everyone for standing your ground while keeping it civil, but it's really not on-topic for this thread.
Ya and everyone is ignoring my hard work too ;( haha

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 01:55 PM
  #123
Ziggy66
Registered User
 
Ziggy66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Killarney, MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,156
vCash: 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Ok, I think that's it for the Edmonton discussion. Kudos to everyone for standing your ground while keeping it civil, but it's really not on-topic for this thread.
Lol agreed. Reminds me of some grade school ****.

Pumped we got a deal done with Kane. Great incentive for him to excell and prove his worth.

Now we just need an agreement so we can have some hockey this season.

Ziggy66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 02:24 PM
  #124
wpgsilver
HFBoards Sponsor
 
wpgsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,394
vCash: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Ya and everyone is ignoring my hard work too ;( haha
I appreciated your post!
I'm not super on top the advanced statistics, but you do an excellent job breaking players down and showing the proper application of each stat. Nice to see there are some numbers backing up Kanes worth to the team.

wpgsilver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 02:47 PM
  #125
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
The Eternal Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Final Synopsis:
Kane is already an elite scorer and will likely maintain these figures (as shown by his high shot volume) for a while sitting at mid 30s for goals over the next few years. Not bad for someone who spent most of his ice time with Burmi, Welly/Antro, Stuart, Bogosian as a 5 piece.
For next season I hope he spends one more season on the second line with Jokinen-Welly/Burmi to further refine his game and take advantage playing against bottom6 grinding forwards, but I also hope Noel places Jokinen and Kane on the 1st PP line with Wheeler.
For not-so-distant future I see Kane as our undisputed 1st line LW. He will likely be mid-to-high 30's goal scorer who could pass 40 in solid PP years.
Urgh god I hope not! Kane is COMPLETELY lost on the PP. Cannot find seems, cannot find the soft areas, just not a very good PP player. Wonderful 5v5 player, one of the best no doubt, but he is goddawful on the PP. This will be a disaster, IMO. Develop blah blah, but hockey sense, the ability to read a defense and play a PP is something that you have or you don't IMO. I've watched guys from 10 years old that instinctively know where to be on the ice, regardless of their skill level...and others that just have no clue. Kane can dominate with his physical skills, he will not be a PP player, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
One of my ultimate favourite things to look at is With/Without you stats. Looking at how a teammate's corsi or +/- can change with or without a player:
NameGF%withPOS GF%without CF%with CF%withouti
ABURMISTROV 0.562 0.476 0.550 0.506
BWHEELER 0.625 0.439 0.520 0.539
KWELLWOOD 0.552 0.543 0.577 0.544
BLITTLE 0.640 0.514 0.520 0.545
0.500 means even so >0.500 would be good for Jets.
Without Kane means they were most likely with Ladd, and if anyone says Ladd is a one-dimensional player than... yea, get out...
To get similar (sometimes better) results than Ladd would suggest that he is very unlikely to be one-dimensional.
I don't get how this does NOT make him one dimensional. His dimension is scoring goals. He is very good at that. But maybe he fit better in that role when Little, Burmistrov had to be the defensive role on the line, rather than when with Ladd Burmistrov/Little/Wheeler/etc were asked to be offensive. Just because it worked better with that mix does not mean Kane is good defensively, etc.

And agree that he is probably a solid PKer. But people have this impression that PK = good defensively. It DOES NOT. It helps somewhat, but it's quite different. Some of the best PKers are terrible defensively. PK is all about speed and hard work (blocking shots would fall in this). It's out working your opponent. Defensive play is about positioning, getting the puck out (puck control), smart play. 5v5 defense you have to know your position, you have to be able to anticipate and be in proper position. PK is more about skating hard, getting to your guy and hammering the puck down the ice.

One thing I have issue with, and it wasn't in this post but I have seen you (I think correct me if I'm wrong) and others state that Kane is not one-dimensional since he generates a lot of primary assists. I find that that statement is very short sighted. First of all, primary assists may be slightly more valuable than secondary, but they are generated so many different ways that I don't think much if anything can said about primary versus secondary assists. I would argue most of Kane's primary assists come mostly from the fact that he shoots...ie it's all rebounds his teammates score on. I fail to see how that makes him more of a complete player.

Holden Caulfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.