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Old
10-18-2012, 09:08 AM
  #376
Illinihockey
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
I think the players are fine with the 50/50. I think it's the other issues that they have a problem with, and that'll be their counter.

But the money split is the biggest issue. When the NFL and NBA came to an agreement on the split, the other things work themselves out very quickly. I think we will see the same here.

EX:
League offered 5 year max contract - PA will counter with 9 - sides will agree to 7 - BOOM DONE
Yup, they'll fight about ELC's and arbitration, but I think a deal will get done in the next 10 days.

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10-18-2012, 09:08 AM
  #377
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Anyone care to offer a link to exactly how this "50/50" split is actually NOT a 50/50 split?
The way HRR is set up, 57/43 was closer to being a 50/50 split than this latest offer from the NHL. I'm not going to write a story on it, because it takes too much time to get into it.

The Globe & Mail (Toronto) did a write up on how HRR works, and basically, the owners can exclude certain things that they make in profit, and only certain concessions are considered revenue. Meanwhile, owners like Rocky Wirtz, are still making big bucks, but claim they are losing money because they are only accounting for certain concessions when they do their revenue.

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10-18-2012, 09:11 AM
  #378
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The way HRR is set up, 57/43 was closer to being a 50/50 split than this latest offer from the NHL. I'm not going to write a story on it, because it takes too much time to get into it.

The Globe & Mail (Toronto) did a write up on how HRR works, and basically, the owners can exclude certain things that they make in profit, and only certain concessions are considered revenue. Meanwhile, owners like Rocky Wirtz, are still making big bucks, but claim they are losing money because they are only accounting for certain concessions when they do their revenue.
This is what held up the NFL labor deal to. Its not just the split of football/hockey related revenue, its how its calculated. So the owners can say 50-50 split of HRR but then exclude lots of things from HRR so the players get a much smaller piece of the pie. Its what the NFL owners did.

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10-18-2012, 09:17 AM
  #379
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Maybe Crosby, but your average guy is probably taking care of a lot of his family, college tuitions, housing, etc. Not saying this is what they should be doing but we've heard enough stories to know that players do share their money with their family.
How many guys are paying college tuition?

You either didn't go, because you played junior and signed after, or you went on scholarship.

Mimimum salary is 500,000 DOLLARS! You know how easy it is to pay $3000 rent (on the very very high end), buy a $25,000 car, and live extremely comfortably while supporting your parents off a half mill a year?

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10-18-2012, 09:21 AM
  #380
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How many guys are paying college tuition?

You either didn't go, because you played junior and signed after, or you went on scholarship.

Mimimum salary is 500,000 DOLLARS! You know how easy it is to pay $3000 rent (on the very very high end), buy a $25,000 car, and live extremely comfortably off a half mill a year?
There you go, "how many guys actually go to college"

That's the problem NHLers have. They don't go to school, so when their hockey career is done in a few years, they have nothing to fall back on because they don't have an education. So say a player makes 1.7mil in his career, that's all he will make and then he will go work as a janitor somewhere, or not at all, because they don't have an education.

1.7mil is a lot to us, but when you compare it to an NHL owner, it's sweet **** all. Pocket change. That's why they are fighting to get that extra 2%, because it could be another couple hundred thousand dollars that will get them through their life and kee ptheir families comfortable.

I don't really feel sorry for the NHL players, but when comparing them to the owners (the ones they are fighting) they deserve as much as they can get.

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10-18-2012, 09:24 AM
  #381
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I would like to hear Hawk's actual plan.

What % should the players get? 70%? 80%? 100%?

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10-18-2012, 09:33 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
How many guys are paying college tuition?

You either didn't go, because you played junior and signed after, or you went on scholarship.

Mimimum salary is 500,000 DOLLARS! You know how easy it is to pay $3000 rent (on the very very high end), buy a $25,000 car, and live extremely comfortably while supporting your parents off a half mill a year?
Don't forget, the government is going to take about 30% of that. Then you have your agents cut which is another 5-10% (I believe). Being a NHL player definitely gives you a leg up, but its not 1965, $5 million isn't going to set you for life. As mentioned previously, its not like when hockey players retire they have the skills to pick up a high paying job. Most of them have nothing more than a high school degree.

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10-18-2012, 10:05 AM
  #383
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Current. Player. Salaries. Aren't. Being. Cut.

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10-18-2012, 11:45 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Don't forget, the government is going to take about 30% of that. Then you have your agents cut which is another 5-10% (I believe). Being a NHL player definitely gives you a leg up, but its not 1965, $5 million isn't going to set you for life. As mentioned previously, its not like when hockey players retire they have the skills to pick up a high paying job. Most of them have nothing more than a high school degree.
I call BS. Most people don't make anywhere near $5 million in their lifetimes and they do just fine.

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10-18-2012, 12:00 PM
  #385
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I would like to hear Hawk's actual plan.

What % should the players get? 70%? 80%? 100%?
50% is fair if everything else stays the same. (Contractural rights)
50% isn't fair if they are taking away every single rights the players earned in the last deal.

Revenue is up 50+% since 2005, and player salaries have only gone up 30%. The owners don't need anymore money from the players.

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10-18-2012, 12:01 PM
  #386
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Current. Player. Salaries. Aren't. Being. Cut.
Actually, they are.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4618449/

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10-18-2012, 12:07 PM
  #387
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I call BS. Most people don't make anywhere near $5 million in their lifetimes and they do just fine.
Obviously but I'm sure most of these guys already have at least a $750,000 house. They want to maintain that lifestyle. I know it's easy to say **** you, I don't have that. Well, if you really want that, there are things you can do to go after that kind of money. That's my take. That's why I'm not jealous at all, the onus is on me to make things happen. But they don't want to live like us the rest of their lives and not work, they want to live the lifestyle they are accustomed to, the one that they earned, which is why every thousand dollars lost or gained does matter.

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10-18-2012, 12:15 PM
  #388
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It's just useless to continue to debate this when one side wants hockey back and the other wants players to be able to wipe their ***** with Ben Franklins.

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10-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #389
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It's just useless to continue to debate this when one side wants hockey back and the other wants players to be able to wipe their ***** with Ben Franklins.
It's just useless to continue to debate this when one side wants hockey back, and the other side wants the owners to be able to wipe their ass with toilet paper made out of diamonds.

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10-18-2012, 12:21 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by SugarKane88 View Post
I call BS. Most people don't make anywhere near $5 million in their lifetimes and they do just fine.
Fact:
42% of players who make the NHL play only 50 games or less in their career

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10-18-2012, 12:22 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
this is about the health of the league.
This is the biggest issue.

I don't like the owners much, or the players for that matter, but without a good edge in the agreement that favors the owners we'll have some of the crap hockey we saw before the cap was put in place, it's just a matter of time. The last thing we need to see is unstable ownership in 8 or 10 franchise cities again.

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10-18-2012, 12:23 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
It's just useless to continue to debate this when one side wants hockey back and the other wants players to be able to wipe their ***** with Ben Franklins.
Why do the players have to cave to get the deal done? The owners LOCKED OUT the players and REFUSED to operate under the old agreement while negotiating so the season could proceed. This is their lockout.

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10-18-2012, 12:34 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Why do the players have to cave to get the deal done? The owners LOCKED OUT the players and REFUSED to operate under the old agreement while negotiating so the season could proceed. This is their lockout.
The players extended the last agreement knowing the owners didn't want to continue the CBA. The players didn't even conduct preliminary talks with the owners until well after the season. They ignored the issue for years, they are just as guilty. They knew they would be lockout out well before they voted to extend the last CBA and didn't do anything about it.

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10-18-2012, 12:35 PM
  #394
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/\ The owners had no other option but to lock them out The NHLPA made one proposal in the 11th hour and then refused to counter with anything after that initial proposal. And this after stalling for months and months, when serious negotiations should have been taking place.
Suppose the NHL went along with the PA and resumed playing with no CBA in place, how much negotiating would be going on? My guess would be NONE and by next Fall we'd be right back to where we are now.

Certainly the initial offer from the owners was on the ludicrous side, but that was to be expected and is quite normal in such negotiations. Fehr has been smug about this since he first opened his yap, and I won't be surprised at all if he ignores the structure from the latest NHL proposal and returns to something similar to what we heard in mid September (hope I'm wrong).

These folks need to iron something out in the next week, whatever it takes!


Last edited by BobbyJet: 10-18-2012 at 12:41 PM.
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10-18-2012, 12:36 PM
  #395
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I agree they should have started negotiations sooner. Maybe it was strategic but still, nothing would have been lost by talking about it sooner.

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10-18-2012, 12:43 PM
  #396
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I call BS. Most people don't make anywhere near $5 million in their lifetimes and they do just fine.
Most people don't do fine. Most people in america are up to their eyes in debt or live paycheck to paycheck. Very few people in this country are completely financially secure and many of those who are, came from families with money that were able to give them a head start (mortgage down payment, no college debt, no car debt, etc.)

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10-18-2012, 12:58 PM
  #397
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Information is starting to roll in on the players rebuttal. From the tweets I've read, looks like it's based off the owner's offer, with no major structural changes. Very good sign.

The deferred payments from the owners' offer is a no-go for the players, however.

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10-18-2012, 01:11 PM
  #398
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Why don't we wait to see the players' proposal before people start jumping off ledges? Anyone who thought they were just going to accept the owners' proposal just because it was 50/50 is ****ing crazy.

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10-18-2012, 01:13 PM
  #399
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season will start Nov 2 then? 1 week to get this deal done, right?

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10-18-2012, 01:55 PM
  #400
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season will start Nov 2 then? 1 week to get this deal done, right?
I hope so Bubba, I miss hockey...

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