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10-18-2012, 07:29 PM
  #526
Illinihockey
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NHL offer on Tuesday had a 13% rollback on 2012-2013 and previously signed contracts. Players wanted those contracts to be fully honoured, and made 3 seprate counter-offers with 50-50 revenue split with no rollback on previously signed contracts. NHL turned all 3 NHLPA counter offers down in their entirety 10 minutes after they were offered.

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10-18-2012, 07:31 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
NHL offer on Tuesday had a 13% rollback on 2012-2013 and previously signed contracts. Players wanted those contracts to be fully honoured, and made 3 seprate counter-offers with 50-50 revenue split with no rollback on previously signed contracts. NHL turned all 3 NHLPA counter offers down in their entirety 10 minutes after they were offered.
"The so called 50-50 deal, plus honoring current contracts proposed by the NHL Players' Association earlier today is being misrepresented...
"It's not a 50-50 deal. It is, most likely, a 56 to 57% deal in Yr. 1 and never gets to 50% during the proposed 5-yr term of the agreement.
"The proposal contemplates paying the players approximately $650 million outside the players' share. In effect, the Union is proposing...
"to change the accounting rules to be able to say 50-50, when really it is not. ...
"The Union told us that they had not yet 'run the numbers.' We did."

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10-18-2012, 07:31 PM
  #528
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Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib

Fehr admitted in presser he didn't run #'s to Option 3. So players take to Twitter saying they offered 50/50 when union boss didn't run #'s?

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10-18-2012, 07:35 PM
  #529
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Hahahhah I can't believe people are still siding with the PA

FEHR is in charge people

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10-18-2012, 07:41 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
It's a negotiation. Both sides won't get everything they want and will have to make concessions. The NHLPA refused to negotiate all year, took every chance to spout bs about how much they just want to play the game, and tried their hardest to get fan sympathy up.

The NHL exposed them for being greedy and now that the PR tide is turning the players are crying foul. It's absolutely childish.

The owners lose very little by not having a season, the players lose a lot more and yet they're just being babies about this all.
But the owners aren't making any concessions. There just getting less of a break.

The NHL exposed them only to people who realized that both parties are absolutely 100% looking out for their own best interests. Anybody who takes a side that the other is "greedy" is totally out to lunch unless they realize both sides pay the lawyers and accountants a lot of money to get the best deal for themselves.

Babies about this all? It's all PR spin, and that's coming from both sides.

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10-18-2012, 07:42 PM
  #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib

Fehr admitted in presser he didn't run #'s to Option 3. So players take to Twitter saying they offered 50/50 when union boss didn't run #'s?
Of course he ran the numbers. If you think he didn't know exactly what he was offering you're not thinking clearly. They're just offering a 50/50 split as much as the owners are.

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10-18-2012, 07:43 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Hahahhah I can't believe people are still siding with the PA

FEHR is in charge people
To be totally transparent I'm not siding with either side. They're both a collection of crooks and sleaze bags making a fortune arguing over how rich other people should be. But anybody on either side that thinks one side is totally at fault is being thick.

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10-18-2012, 07:47 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
But the owners aren't making any concessions. There just getting less of a break.

The NHL exposed them only to people who realized that both parties are absolutely 100% looking out for their own best interests. Anybody who takes a side that the other is "greedy" is totally out to lunch unless they realize both sides pay the lawyers and accountants a lot of money to get the best deal for themselves.

Babies about this all? It's all PR spin, and that's coming from both sides.
Look up the meaning of the word concession.

I don't like either side, both are out for themselves but the difference is that if one side doesn't get their way then we have no hockey. That, and I actually think the NHL's odder is fair. The PA is the group here that is refusing to make any significant concession. The NHL presents a fair deal and the PA goes crying and we have no season. The PA's response today was a joke, they didn't even come close.

I'm on the side of getting hockey which makes me aligned with the owners cause they're actually being reasonable.

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10-18-2012, 07:50 PM
  #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Look up the meaning of the word concession.

I don't like either side, both are out for themselves but the difference is that if one side doesn't get their way then we have no hockey. That, and I actually think the NHL's odder is fair. The PA is the group here that is refusing to make any significant concession. The NHL presents a fair deal and the PA goes crying and we have no season. The PA's response today was a joke, they didn't even come close.

I'm on the side of getting hockey which makes me aligned with the owners cause they're actually being reasonable.
The owners are going to get a much better deal then they had previously. I'd suggest you look up the meaning of the word concession, unless you considering settling for a 15% raise instead of a 20% raise a "concession".

Everything the players offer is going to be taking a hit across the board. They're conceding everything. It's all a net gain for the owners at this point.

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10-18-2012, 07:55 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
The owners are going to get a much better deal then they had previously. I'd suggest you look up the meaning of the word concession, unless you considering settling for a 15% raise instead of a 20% raise a "concession".
That would by the definition of the word be a definition. It's a give back from a previous position.
Of course the owners are going to be better off but they should be, there are a large number of teams that are losing money or barely breaking even.

I still have yet to hear a good reason for why NHL players should get a higher percentage of revenue than any other major league.

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10-18-2012, 08:05 PM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
That would by the definition of the word be a definition. It's a give back from a previous position.
Of course the owners are going to be better off but they should be, there are a large number of teams that are losing money or barely breaking even.

I still have yet to hear a good reason for why NHL players should get a higher percentage of revenue than any other major league.
What?

Whether or not they should be better off, don't tell me to look up the meaning of a word I have full and total comprehension of.

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10-18-2012, 08:08 PM
  #537
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LOL this is hilarious.

The OWNERS sign these players to these contracts
The players want them to honour the contracts THEY signed
The owners reject a split of 50/50, which it would be 50/50, based off of the NHLs revenue growth projection (5%) and reject an honour of the current contract
..and the owners take 10min to decide they dont like ALL 3 proposals
And the owners fly home on their private jets and complain about jet fuel costs.

Make that 4 or 5 owners, and Bettman (who makes 8mil/yr), deciding for ALL of the owners.

NHL union is a joke...8 of 30 owners decide is a ****ing joke.

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10-18-2012, 08:09 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
What?

Whether or not they should be better off, don't tell me to look up the meaning of a word I have full and total comprehension of.
Concession: the act of conceding or yielding, as a right, a privilege, or a point or fact in an argument

Backing away from your initial proposal and decreasing your demands is a concession. Whether you're losing more or gaining less.

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10-18-2012, 08:12 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
LOL this is hilarious.

The OWNERS sign these players to these contracts
The players want them to honour the contracts THEY signed
The owners reject a split of 50/50, which it would be 50/50, based off of the NHLs revenue growth projection (5%) and reject an honour of the current contract
..and the owners take 10min to decide they dont like ALL 3 proposals
And the owners fly home on their private jets and complain about jet fuel costs.

Make that 4 or 5 owners, and Bettman (who makes 8mil/yr), deciding for ALL of the owners.

NHL union is a joke...8 of 30 owners decide is a ****ing joke.
Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib

Fehr admitted in presser he didn't run #'s to Option 3. So players take to Twitter saying they offered 50/50 when union boss didn't run #'s?

"The so called 50-50 deal, plus honoring current contracts proposed by the NHL Players' Association earlier today is being misrepresented...
"It's not a 50-50 deal. It is, most likely, a 56 to 57% deal in Yr. 1 and never gets to 50% during the proposed 5-yr term of the agreement.
"The proposal contemplates paying the players approximately $650 million outside the players' share. In effect, the Union is proposing...
"to change the accounting rules to be able to say 50-50, when really it is not. ...
"The Union told us that they had not yet 'run the numbers.' We did."

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10-18-2012, 08:14 PM
  #540
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It's a joke of a semantics argument. I was making the point that anybody painting the owners as the good guys when no matter what the outcome is they come out way ahead of where they were - while technically they may be conceding on a few things - it's far from some valiant compromise made for the good of the fans.

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10-18-2012, 08:19 PM
  #541
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Your argument is comparable to this: A business owner is operating at a loss, he goes the employees and says look I've been paying you well and giving you great benefits, I want to ask you guys to take some cuts for the good of the company, I may go out of business if you don't (not saying the NHL will but making a hypothetical). NO! THey say, we're doing very well and don't want to give anything back.

Your stance is, if the employees give up anything they lose so they shouldn't.

The owners aren't good guys but they're the only side being reasonable and taking reasonable steps to get hockey back in a way that's fair to both.

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10-18-2012, 08:27 PM
  #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Your argument is comparable to this: A business owner is operating at a loss, he goes the employees and says look I've been paying you well and giving you great benefits, I want to ask you guys to take some cuts for the good of the company, I may go out of business if you don't (not saying the NHL will but making a hypothetical). NO! THey say, we're doing very well and don't want to give anything back.

Your stance is, if the employees give up anything they lose so they shouldn't.

The owners aren't good guys but they're the only side being reasonable and taking reasonable steps to get hockey back in a way that's fair to both.
When, at all, did I ever make that stance? I believe all I've stated is that both sides are full of it. But go ahead and assume.

My belief is that you have a number of teams - Chicago included - raking in cash at the detriment of some of the small market teams. I'm all for a more balanced profit sharing system, as the Blackhawks, Leafs and Canadiens are only capable of raking in tons of cash by playing teams like Nashville, Phoenix, and the Blue Jackets.

And don't speak in hypotheticals and offer them up as truths.

My belief is the players are going to lose no matter what. Never said they shouldn't. Again, that's you assuming.

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10-18-2012, 08:29 PM
  #543
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And as to your stance on my alleged "argument":

It'd be like the owners coming up to a group of employees with contracts and saying I need you guys to take a hit for the longterm good of the company, and the employees saying we'll work off a new contract after our old one has expired.

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10-18-2012, 08:33 PM
  #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
And as to your stance on my alleged "argument":

It'd be like the owners coming up to a group of employees with contracts and saying I need you guys to take a hit for the longterm good of the company, and the employees saying we'll work off a new contract after our old one has expired.
Then that new group of owners file for Chap 11 Bankruptcy and go to a judge to either have CBA voided or modified with more favorable terms for company

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10-18-2012, 08:34 PM
  #545
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Honestly, why aren't the players thankful? THey should be thankful they get to play a sport they love for a living. They should be thankful that the owners pay them millions of dollars a year for playing a sport they love? They should be thankful for their lives, not complaining about having to have a slightly less awesome life.

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10-18-2012, 08:37 PM
  #546
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Anybody who spends money on watching the NHL in the past, and is now complaining the players make too much, is a hypocrite.
I'm done.

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10-18-2012, 08:37 PM
  #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Then that new group of owners file for Chap 11 Bankruptcy and go to a judge to either have CBA voided or modified with more favorable terms for company
Except that the NHL hasn't opened it's books and we have no idea whether or not the league as a whole is operating in the black or not. Personally, I think it is.

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10-18-2012, 08:39 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Honestly, why aren't the players thankful? THey should be thankful they get to play a sport they love for a living. They should be thankful that the owners pay them millions of dollars a year for playing a sport they love? They should be thankful for their lives, not complaining about having to have a slightly less awesome life.
Honestly, why aren't the owners thankful? They should be thankful they're in a position where there net worth is in the billions and they own a franchise that they'll never sell for less then they paid for it? They should be thankful for their lives, not complaining about making slightly less money.

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10-18-2012, 08:39 PM
  #549
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Anybody who spends money on watching the NHL in the past, and is now complaining the players make too much, is a hypocrite.
I'm done.
So the player should continue to make far more than any other major sports league? Good to know.

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10-18-2012, 08:41 PM
  #550
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I give up, you guys are ridiculous, continue to think one set of millionaires is better than another. These are the PA proposals by the way, they are laughably bad...

PA Offer 1:

If HRR increases to higher than $3.6 billion, we get 50%.
Otherwise, we get $1.8 billion (which would currently be 57%).

PA Offer 2:

All existing contracts become guaranteed.
If league revenues go down or stay the same, we keep our $1.8 billion (which would be 57% or higher).
For every dollar that league revenues go up, we get 25 cents, so our share gradually decreases until we're at 50%.

PA Offer 3:

All existing contracts become guaranteed.
All free agents and new players will sign for less than market value, until our share gradually decreases to 50% (if mossey3535's math is right that would take 6+ years).

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