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And we are locked out again (No Progress ,, Talks collapse)

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Old
10-22-2012, 04:46 PM
  #651
Blackhawkswincup
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NHLPA really needs to put gag order in effect

The more players that speak the more pathetic they look

Add Krecji to list of latest NHLPA member to look like an idiot as he claims the owners of NHL teams treat them like animals

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10-22-2012, 05:16 PM
  #652
Chris Hansen
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I am so tired of this crap.

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Old
10-22-2012, 05:27 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
This isn't a freedom of speech issue. It's a matter of sound decision making. The owners have a voluntary gag order and they agreed to the fine, it's self imposed, not some crazy unheard of tactic by Bettman as you imply.

If there's a reliable or even marginally useful model that promotes public in-fighting among one group on the same side of the table in a labor dispute, I would love to read it.

Back to my earlier point/opinion. Fehr needs to keep his players on message and focused or else he needs to push them to be silent. Kostitsyn speaking out or Horcoff speaking out against the owners probably does more to hurt PR than help it for the players. If there is a gain, it's modest at best and the risk of PR backlash probably offsets any potential gain anyway based my limited understanding of the history of labor disputes in sports.


The owners are competitive too, and it shouldn't be taken for granted by the players that the owners wouldn't approach some aspects of the PA's proposals and comments with the same righteous indignation many of the players have shown.

Public rants have done practically nothing for the players in the past. Speaking honestly and professionally advances their message and purpose more than the public rants in my opinion. To use an example of the point I'm trying to make (you have a good avatar btw), what did JR's rants last lockout accomplish for him or the PA except to subject himself to ridicule and a slightly damaged public perception?
Players like Horcoff, Ovy and other Russians spewing off, doesn't get much sympathy. One only has to read some of the comments on TSN.ca to see the mostly negative fan reaction to their comments.

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10-23-2012, 09:46 AM
  #654
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Thank God for GM Connected and my "Learn to Play" class. I'd be pulling my hair out if i didn't have this to give me a hockey fix

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10-23-2012, 12:16 PM
  #655
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Kane to Biel seems to be done! Awesome to see him play for my hometown team!

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10-23-2012, 12:25 PM
  #656
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Kane to Biel seems to be done! Awesome to see him play for my hometown team!
As long as you guys have players with decent hands, he should put up a lot of points.

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10-23-2012, 12:57 PM
  #657
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that's where seguin is playing, no?

they'll both have someone to drink with

as an aside, presumably this wouldn't be announced if he thought the season was starting any time soon.

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10-23-2012, 01:02 PM
  #658
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Kane to Biel seems to be done! Awesome to see him play for my hometown team!
Kaner partying with Seguin? Cant wait for hfboards reactions to that

Edit: Usernamewastaken beat me to it.


Last edited by RedBaronIndian: 10-23-2012 at 01:09 PM.
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Old
10-23-2012, 01:09 PM
  #659
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No, he doesn't.

Every person in the world should have freedom of speech, no matter what. Could you imagine if the majority of the owners who want this deal done started talking, instead of having a dog collar around their neck? Guaranteed the people who are on the owners side, wouldn't be on the owners side. Instead, Bettman has put a major fine on their laps if they talk.

Why? Because if they talk, the owners wouldn't have any good PR going for them right now, not that they should anyway.
People always confuse, freedom of speech, with freedom to do whatever the hell you want. Freedom of speech is about people having the right to say what they want, that isn't threatening, about aspects of our country. The media can sit there and call our president all sorts of things without fear of legal consequences. Imagine trying to bash the government on TV in North Korea and see how long before you have gone missing. That is what freedom of speech is.


In private life it's different, when you represent a company that company has rules that you have to follow because they can. If you work at a retail store and curse out a costumer you will lose your job, you won't face legal punishment, that's the freedom of speech, but the company has every right to fire you. It's the same with the owners, Bettman can tell them not to talk and say he will fine them if they do and they agree to it.

The players should take a que and stop talking because they are coming off worse and worse everytime they open their mouths. When your making millions of dollars to play a game and you say they treat us like animals you look like one of the stupidest and most self centered people on the planet. Sure they won't face any punishment for what they are saying but the public views of them will continue to go down as they continue to say horribly stupid things.

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:27 PM
  #660
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FOS applies only to government regulation... i.e. the government cannot control what its people say in almost all circumstances (I believe the expection - "inciting imminent lawless action" - might have been changed to a new phrase, can't remember what it is at the moment).

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10-23-2012, 02:07 PM
  #661
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Kaner signed to play in Switzerland on the same team as Tyler Seguin.

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10-23-2012, 02:09 PM
  #662
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I don't care what the real freedom of speech stands for, and don't care to read any of your posts that try to describe it. You know what I mean.

It's simple. If all the owners were allowed to talk, the PR on the owners side would be terribad.

Players should feel FREE to say whatever they want, who cares if they get ridiculed for it. It's their choice.

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10-23-2012, 02:32 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I don't care what the real freedom of speech stands for, and don't care to read any of your posts that try to describe it. You know what I mean.

It's simple. If all the owners were allowed to talk, the PR on the owners side would be terribad.

Players should feel FREE to say whatever they want, who cares if they get ridiculed for it. It's their choice.
Says all we need to know.

And no one is saying the players don't have the right to say it, but if they where smart they wouldn't say anything because they come off looking bad, and when you rely on the public to pay your salary making the public dislike you isn't a smart strategy. Sure they can say it, but they shouldn't.

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10-23-2012, 03:11 PM
  #664
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It's simple. If all the owners were allowed to talk, the PR on the owners side would be terribad.
I don't see really see your point as it would apply to negotiations. 30 owners and 800 players, there are plenty of disagreements and it's probably pretty foolish to let any of that go public. That's why we haven't heard a single player say they're willing to give up 5-10% to drop the puck. It's common sense, you don't let in-fighting go public during negotiations. Owners have to keep their employees (too many former players and agents sympathetic to the PA or holding a grudge against the owners) and themselves in line.

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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Players should feel FREE to say whatever they want, who cares if they get ridiculed for it. It's their choice.
I care, it gives me something to think about during this miserable lockout.

On a little more serious note, they're celebrities and part of a negotiating group. Plenty of people really do care when the speak. There are always consequences, the players saw that last lockout. Besides, if the players were that FREE from peer pressure and the real or implied threat of being ostracized from their union, we would have heard from at least one player that is okay with a slight dial-back in salaries.

Both sides can apply legal consequences for certain types of speech if they want, or not. They are FREE to do or not do so.

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Old
10-23-2012, 09:03 PM
  #665
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NHLPA trying a PR move and like previous one's they end up looking foolish

Say they will meet NHL but wont discuss NHL last offer nor do they have a new counter offer

NHL wont bother with meeting under those conditions and they are right. Just a PR stunt by NHLPA

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10-23-2012, 09:05 PM
  #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
NHLPA trying a PR move and like previous one's they end up looking foolish

Say they will meet NHL but wont discuss NHL last offer nor do they have a new counter offer

NHL wont bother with meeting under those conditions and they are right. Just a PR stunt by NHLPA
Why would they even bring up meeting... They want to discuss the last presidential debate?

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10-23-2012, 10:16 PM
  #667
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Don't like the owners stance on this. Meet with them, why does it absolutely have to be on their terms? The players are already the side making concessions. Not agreeing to meet is stupid.

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10-23-2012, 10:57 PM
  #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
NHLPA trying a PR move and like previous one's they end up looking foolish

Say they will meet NHL but wont discuss NHL last offer nor do they have a new counter offer

NHL wont bother with meeting under those conditions and they are right. Just a PR stunt by NHLPA
The players gave the NHL 3 offers that the NHL barely looked at before rejecting. Why should the PA continue to bring the NHL offers until it sees one it likes.

The NHL is being completely disingenuous. There was no invitation to "work off" the NHL's offer. The players were told that they had to accept everything but the NHL would consider "minor tweaks" to the make whole provision.

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10-23-2012, 11:05 PM
  #669
Chris Hansen
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Why people continue to take sides in this ****fest is beyond me. As a fan, I am fully aware that neither side even remotely gives a crap about me. So why waste the energy arguing on their behalf?

The greedy NHL and the greedy players deserve nothing from us during the lockout. Neither side.

When (if?) NHL hockey is back, naturally we will all go back to it and that's just who we all are.

But right now? Why waste our time arguing with one another over who deserves more blame?
Who cares? Both sides deserve some, and neither side cares about any of us.

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Old
10-24-2012, 05:13 AM
  #670
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what Chris said. Both sides ****ing suck

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Old
10-24-2012, 05:21 AM
  #671
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Why people continue to take sides in this ****fest is beyond me. As a fan, I am fully aware that neither side even remotely gives a crap about me. So why waste the energy arguing on their behalf?

The greedy NHL and the greedy players deserve nothing from us during the lockout. Neither side.

When (if?) NHL hockey is back, naturally we will all go back to it and that's just who we all are.

But right now? Why waste our time arguing with one another over who deserves more blame?
Who cares? Both sides deserve some, and neither side cares about any of us.
99% of the time I would agree with you but knowing what I know and seeing what I have seen this isn't something the owners wanted. They tried to do this deal more then once more then a year ago and are the only ones willing to really come up with ways to end this including the "make whole" provision.

More often then not something like this leads me to hate the greed of the owners but that isn't what is happening here.

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10-24-2012, 07:46 AM
  #672
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I agree. The players need to know that each time a CBA expires the slate is wiped clean. The notion that they gave away too much in 2005 is old news. It is today’s economic realities that need to be dealt with. If Fehr really puts the player’s welfare ahead of his own ambitions, as a seasoned negotiator he needs to realize the wiggle room from the owners is just about done. That should be clear. He needs to confer with the players and advise them the best recourse is to communicate to the owners that they are willing to work off of their proposal, get in the same room and iron this out by tomorrow. Failing that, get a deal in place by November with a minimum of games lost. Anything less and he is pulling another Goodenow, leading the players to the promised land that isn’t there. What is there is a lose-lose scenario, that worsens the longer this prolongs.

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10-24-2012, 08:39 AM
  #673
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Both sides ****ing suck
I couldn't agree more.

I have my preferences for what should happen moving forward so that we see less of this garbage again in 5, 6, or 7 years. I should start all my posts related to the lockout with that quote. Tough to like any body. I'm going to start getting aggravated with the officials too even though they still have 2 years left on their agreement.

Quote:
As a fan, I am fully aware that neither side even remotely gives a crap about me. So why waste the energy arguing on their behalf?
The answer may be along the same lines as why one posts to argue an opinion against certain types of posts. We are lean on NHL topics to discuss.

I think it has more to do with not having line pairings to gripe about. I can't speak for anybody but myself but I think if Crawford let in a couple of softies over the weekend and then followed it up with a Tuesday shutout, we wouldn't worry about the PA and owners so much.

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10-24-2012, 08:44 AM
  #674
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/\
The players need to know that each time a CBA expires the slate is wiped clean. The notion that they gave away too much in 2005 is old news.
I think the players will gradually accept that the slate is wiped. This was one of my concerns while they were sitting on the hands waiting to elect new leadership/representation the year before last.

I don't know what is more frustrating, all the quotes of Bettman saying that things were working well before the lockout (knowing they were going to lockout the players) or of the players saying how much they gave up for the last CBA after they extended it.

I'll refer to Bubba's quote.

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10-24-2012, 09:43 AM
  #675
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I think it has more to do with not having line pairings to gripe about. I can't speak for anybody but myself but I think if Crawford let in a couple of softies over the weekend and then followed it up with a Tuesday shutout, we wouldn't worry about the PA and owners so much.
Haha. I miss getting to whine about Kruger being on the second line and Leddy on the PK

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