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Old
11-18-2012, 12:37 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Burmi's flaws: No clue what to do with the puck when he hits the oppositions blue-line, hangs on to the puck too long, never drives the net, takes shots from poor location and from bad angles, seems to lack hockey sense (albeit not to extent of Kane though)....

What type of center do call Jim Slater?

PS If some of you guys don't see a problem with an NHL regular (Burmi) not being able to score in the AHL I really don't know what to say.
Why do we have to view Burmistrov as NHL regular when we know he was put into the NHL before he was ready? IMO, he should instead be viewed as an elite prospect that we can't wait to bustout like a Gudbrandson, Johansen, Niederreiter, Connolly, Gandlund, Gormley, Schwartz, Tarasenko, etc.

Why is he viewed as a finished product, when most of the guys above are still viewed as elite prospects? Is Burmi being punished because former management made a bad decision to rush him to the NHL? Of the whole 2010 draft only Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and Fowler have made impacts. But because Burmistrov was rushed he's peaked, yet all the other teams are still high on their prospects? What's wrong with this picture?

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11-18-2012, 01:04 PM
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Why do we have to view Burmistrov as NHL regular when we know he was put into the NHL before he was ready? IMO, he should instead be viewed as an elite prospect that we can't wait to bustout like a Gudbrandson, Johansen, Niederreiter, Connolly, Gandlund, Gormley, Schwartz, Tarasenko, etc.

Why is he viewed as a finished product, when most of the guys above are still viewed as elite prospects? Is Burmi being punished because former management made a bad decision to rush him to the NHL? Of the whole 2010 draft only Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and Fowler have made impacts. But because Burmistrov was rushed he's peaked, yet all the other teams are still high on their prospects? What's wrong with this picture?
Because he is an NHL regular, and you have to trust the expert coaches and managers who have decided this, as you would a professional doctor, electrician, and whatnot.

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11-18-2012, 01:13 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by GrandChelems View Post
Because he is an NHL regular, and you have to trust the expert coaches and managers who have decided this, as you would a professional doctor, electrician, and whatnot.
Yes, granted he's a NHL regular based on decisions made by previous management.

But why are all the other players taken in the 2010 draft who haven't made an impact (basically everyone but Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and Fowler), still highly touted prospects, but Burmi because he was rushed to the NHL and hasn't busted out is now a disappointment, or becoming a disappointment?

IOW, why do we have to look at Burmi though the lens that what you see is what you get, but everyone else in that draft class with the exception of the 4 above still get the benefit of the doubt of being prospects, and even next year and possibly the year after will get a pretty decent leash from their fanbases? And yet, we're here already talking about Burmi as if he's a finished product?


Last edited by Huffer: 11-18-2012 at 01:29 PM.
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11-18-2012, 02:46 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Yes, granted he's a NHL regular based on decisions made by previous management.

But why are all the other players taken in the 2010 draft who haven't made an impact (basically everyone but Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and Fowler), still highly touted prospects, but Burmi because he was rushed to the NHL and hasn't busted out is now a disappointment, or becoming a disappointment?

IOW, why do we have to look at Burmi though the lens that what you see is what you get, but everyone else in that draft class with the exception of the 4 above still get the benefit of the doubt of being prospects, and even next year and possibly the year after will get a pretty decent leash from their fanbases? And yet, we're here already talking about Burmi as if he's a finished product?
IMO all of opinions you are concerned about are just that - opinions - from the impatient minority. Burmi is 21, and some folks need a little patience if you ask me.

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11-18-2012, 04:16 PM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Burmi's flaws: No clue what to do with the puck when he hits the oppositions blue-line, hangs on to the puck too long, never drives the net, takes shots from poor location and from bad angles, seems to lack hockey sense (albeit not to extent of Kane though)....

What type of center do call Jim Slater?

PS If some of you guys don't see a problem with an NHL regular (Burmi) not being able to score in the AHL I really don't know what to say.
You never answered my question about how many ice caps games you've watched this season.

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11-18-2012, 04:37 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by GrandChelems View Post
IMO all of opinions you are concerned about are just that - opinions - from the impatient minority. Burmi is 21, and some folks need a little patience if you ask me.
Agreed.

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11-18-2012, 09:03 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by GrandChelems View Post
IMO all of opinions you are concerned about are just that - opinions - from the impatient minority. Burmi is 21, and some folks need a little patience if you ask me.
At what point do you have to ask the question, will he be a point producer in the NHL? Teams give up on players all the time, it's the nature of the business. Some come back to have solid, productive careers, others play in europe.

At 21, Burmi should be producing at a better clip in the AHL, if you are expecting him to be a point producer in the NHL. As a 8th overall pick, the expectations would be he would be a point producer.

So far...

Alex Burmistrov 15 gp/2 g/5 a/7 pts

Ryan Johansen 14 gp/5 g/6 a/11 pts

Mikael Granlund 8 gp/4 g/8 a/12 pts

Nino Niederreiter 13 gp/7 g/8 a/15 pts

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11-18-2012, 09:34 PM
  #358
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Burmi was our best player last year in the first 15 games and I know he didn't sustain that all year but he Noel wasn't to fond of him on some occasions. Having said that, I will have no problem if Burmi ends up as our 3rd line centre in two years behind Scheif and whomever. That will give us lots of depth and he can be that realiable 3rd line centre with scoring touch sort of like Jordan Staal was in Pitts. I know he's not Staal but Id have no problem if he ended up being a 40 point 3rd liner, however, I still think he has second line potential and he will get 50 plus points when he plays wing with Scheif. Just give the kid a chance, his skill is off the charts.

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11-18-2012, 09:35 PM
  #359
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Occasionally, I just have to sit back and laugh at the fickleness displayed here. Tim Stapleton was dissed nonstop here last year... what's he doing on the PP? He's too small, why is he playing, etc etc. Now that he has found a niche in the KHL we are saying he's a better option than our AHL'ers?

Maybe, just maybe, different players have different skillsets that are more suitable in different leagues.

As for Alex Burmistrov... he isn't lighting it up the way we hoped, but I really do think he was mishandled in his young career, and I do believe it will get sorted out. It just might take a little longer for him to get his swagger back. He has undeniable talent and love for the game, so he has 2 unteachable components.

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11-18-2012, 09:37 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
At what point do you have to ask the question, will he be a point producer in the NHL? Teams give up on players all the time, it's the nature of the business. Some come back to have solid, productive careers, others play in europe.

At 21, Burmi should be producing at a better clip in the AHL, if you are expecting him to be a point producer in the NHL. As a 8th overall pick, the expectations would be he would be a point producer.


So far...

Alex Burmistrov 15 gp/2 g/5 a/7 pts

Ryan Johansen 14 gp/5 g/6 a/11 pts

Mikael Granlund 8 gp/4 g/8 a/12 pts

Nino Niederreiter 13 gp/7 g/8 a/15 pts

Fair enough but the sample size isn't quite there for me. By most accounts Alex is the best player on either a bad team or a slumping team. If we are to hammer on Burmi for his production then I wonder if the people in New Jersey are worried about Adam Henrique Who has 4 goals and 2 assists in 13 games so far this year in the AHL?? That is a similar production rate to Burmi yet we know Henrique had 51 points in the regular season last year for the Devils and another 13 points in the playoffs.

Alex has put in the effort and his attitude and compete levels are there so for my money I am comfortable that the rest will come in time and he will be a fine two way player in the NHL. Does Alex need to improve....absolutely.....all in good time.

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11-18-2012, 09:55 PM
  #361
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No matter what Burmi will be a serviceable player for years to come just on his defensive skills. If he becomes a great shutdown third line center for 10 years with the jets I'm not complaining

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11-18-2012, 10:54 PM
  #362
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No matter what Burmi will be a serviceable player for years to come just on his defensive skills. If he becomes a great shutdown third line center for 10 years with the jets I'm not complaining
Good point, no one is arguing against Burmi's defensive game, his skating, his attitude or his love for the game. Whether he was rushed into the NHL isn't really the point, he was an NHL regular for two years. Maybe Burmi will become a Jim Slater like player who can also excel at the PK and become a dominant defensive specialist and shut-down guy.

As for watching Burmi this season, it's pretty tough living in Winnipeg, the streams are few and far between, I don't subscribe to TSN Ice Caps.

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11-19-2012, 09:06 AM
  #363
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No matter what Burmi will be a serviceable player for years to come just on his defensive skills. If he becomes a great shutdown third line center for 10 years with the jets I'm not complaining
Agree with this. Burmi should not be judged forwards or backwards on point totals alone. Not the full picture.

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11-19-2012, 09:47 AM
  #364
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I see the glass as half full.....just means we will get him cheap for his next contract

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11-19-2012, 10:11 AM
  #365
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As for Alex Burmistrov... he isn't lighting it up the way we hoped, but I really do think he was mishandled in his young career, and I do believe it will get sorted out. It just might take a little longer for him to get his swagger back. He has undeniable talent and love for the game, ...
Zach Bogosian?

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11-19-2012, 11:11 AM
  #366
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Article on young NHL'ers in the AHL:

http://www.thetelegram.com/Opinion/C...nting-myself/1


“It’s not an easy league,” Alex Burmistrov, the Winnipeg Jets’ lockout contribution to the IceCaps, said this week, “especially when you’re down here from the NHL. Players are playing hard against you, so it’s not easy for us.
“I bet a lot of fans thought I’d come here and score hat tricks every game. It’s not an easy league. It’s tough to score goals ... it’s tough.”
Before last night’s game against the Devils, opening a six-game homestand at Mile One (the Hamilton Bulldogs are in Tuesday and Wednesday, followed by the Providence Bruins next weekend), Burmistrov had two goals and seven assists through 13 games, good enough to lead the goal-challenged IceCaps, but barely totals that would raise an eyebrow.
Of course, Burmistrov and company are generating more attention on the ice, their space to move a little more crowded than, say, Ivan Telegin, the St. John’s rookie winger.


“That’s why it’s the American league,” Burmistrov said. “Everybody is still learning here, everybody wants to play in the NHL and everybody is still trying to develop here. Including myself. It’s a good league to play hockey.”
“Without a doubt, guys are keying in on him,” St. John’s coach Keith McCambridge said. “We sat down a couple of games ago and went over some clips of his shifts, what I’m seeing on my side and what he’s seeing on the ice. When you watch in game speed, and when you watch the game tape, there’s no doubt in my mind teams are keying two guys on him.
“Especially on the power play, there’s pressure on him, and five-on-five, too. They’re really aware of him being an upper echelon guy and taking away his time and space. We talked about him moving pucks and getting to that open space.”

Nobody has to tell Burmistrov some American league players are watching the NHL guys, and if there’s a chance for an extra shot or two, well, they’re taking it.
“This is my fourth year in North America and it’s always been like this,” said the young Russian, who despite playing his third pro season is still only 21. “There is a lot of hitting and that’s hockey.”
Thing with Burmistrov, however, is that he sometimes initiates the contact. Like the game in Portland, when the Pirates’ Alexandre Bolduc went to hit the slick centre in the corner. Only Burmistrov leaned into Bolduc first.
“Bolduc was the one who ended up on his back,” said McCambridge, who liked to throw around his body as a minor league journeyman. “Alex is a guy who can play a physical game. He’s right in the battle. He’s not afraid to go to those hard areas, going for pucks in the corners. He has an edge to him.”
Of course, Burmistrov isn’t paid to muck it up. The singers sing and the dancers dance, and Burmistrov is supposed to be putting numbers on the board.
He’s not the only one, of course, on the IceCaps not scoring this season. Prior to last night’s game, only three teams in the East — Albany, Providence and the Binghamton Senators — had fewer goals than the IceCaps, and St. John’s had two more games played.
Burmistrov doesn’t appear overly concerned, confident the IceCaps will, “battle through this together.”

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Old
11-19-2012, 11:21 AM
  #367
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^ Gimme a break, no different than the attention the top players in the NHL receive on a nightly basis, personally I think it's a wakeup call to some of these NHL'ers playing in the AHL (during lockout) that it's a fine line between some of the so-called AHL'ers and being the 9-12 forward on a NHL roster.

The actual talent in the NHL is so thinly diluted that once you get past the top 6-9 forwards and top 4 D on most teams the talent at your A team is pretty much interchangeable, we saw a good example in Winnipeg last season with Mach. and Max at the end of last season and with the play of both Kulda and Festerling when they were called up.


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11-19-2012, 11:54 AM
  #368
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^ Gimme a break, no different than the attention the top players in the NHL receive on a nightly basis, personally I think it's a wakeup call to some of these NHL'ers playing in the AHL (during lockout) that it's a fine line between some of the so-called AHL'ers and being the 9-12 forward on a NHL roster.

The actual talent in the NHL is so thinly diluted that once you get past the top 6-9 forwards and top 4 D on most teams the talent at your A team is pretty much interchangeable, we saw a good example in Winnipeg last season with Mach. and Max at the end of last season and with the play of both Kulda and Festerling when they were called up.
You kinda shot yourself in the foot here.

Though i agree that a lot of the time the fourth line appears to be pretty interchangeable the sample size was soo unbelievably small that to assume any of the players you mentioned can keep up the pace over an 82 game season is foolish.

based on burmis stats he can be a thrid or fourth liner, but the players doing so much worse then him in the AHL right now are still interchangeable with our fourth line? I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.

Saying tim stapleton should be here over them, is CLEARLY based entirely off the stat sheet. You've already admitted you don't watch icecaps games so i'd highly doubt you've been streaming KHL games with any regularity.

Clearly, the only thing your basing your current assessments of how bad burmi is, is based entirely off the stat sheet, and what you saw in the NHL last year. We all saw him struggle, there's no denying that, but some of us are trying to find out what he's doing now, not just assuming nothings changed, which is what you are doing.

That's fine, but i can read a stat sheet myself. I'll listen to the people who have watched him play and believe what they say, which is essentially that he's dominating control but he and the team just can't get the puck home.

that sounds like an improvement to me, but you know, don't let any current information get in the way of your opinion.

And to add to how ridiculous your assessment is, the point of Adam Henrique is a good one. He got 50+ in the NHL last year but is struggling in the A this year, so he's barely a fourth liner too eh? just shows how good of a judge of talent the stat sheet is.

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11-19-2012, 11:58 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
^ Gimme a break, no different than the attention the top players in the NHL receive on a nightly basis, personally I think it's a wakeup call to some of these NHL'ers playing in the AHL (during lockout) that it's a fine line between some of the so-called AHL'ers and being the 9-12 forward on a NHL roster.
The point is that Burmistrov is still tied for tops on the team in points WHILE getting all the extra attention. The entire team is struggling to put points on the board, not just him.

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11-19-2012, 12:15 PM
  #370
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Occasionally, I just have to sit back and laugh at the fickleness displayed here. Tim Stapleton was dissed nonstop here last year... what's he doing on the PP? He's too small, why is he playing, etc etc. Now that he has found a niche in the KHL we are saying he's a better option than our AHL'ers?

Maybe, just maybe, different players have different skillsets that are more suitable in different leagues.

As for Alex Burmistrov... he isn't lighting it up the way we hoped, but I really do think he was mishandled in his young career, and I do believe it will get sorted out. It just might take a little longer for him to get his swagger back. He has undeniable talent and love for the game, so he has 2 unteachable components.
I was thinking the same thing the other day lol. It makes sense the stapler is having more success in a skill based league, which he has in spades, and doesn't have to worry about getting knocked into kingdom come. That being said, Cammalleri, St. Louis and Theo Fluery are all around the same size, yet they flourished here. Who the **** knows.

I'm not worried about Burmi. He'll figure his **** out. I'm sure of it. He's already demonstrated that he has the Defense down. Maybe he just likes that part of he game better or something. I have no doubts that when we he comes back to the NHL, he's going to improve by that same crazy amount that he did before.

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11-19-2012, 12:16 PM
  #371
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I wish the AHL tracked TOI and PP/PK shots...
We could get better grasps of luck/bad luck on the IceCaps.
Currently, *none* of the players have normal career sh% and, watching every game but one, I can assure everyone it isn't like the whole team became perimeter shooters. So from my views and the stats the IceCaps are slumping with some bad luck that should bounce, but I don't know if they'll be a dominate team.

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11-19-2012, 01:17 PM
  #372
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The point is that Burmistrov is still tied for tops on the team in points WHILE getting all the extra attention. The entire team is struggling to put points on the board, not just him.
Don't disagree. But that says to me anyway, that we have a bunch of hard working, lunch bucket types, who can't score - in St John's, right now. Burmi might be doing 'fine' but then our depth of quality point producers, at the AHL level, right now is low.

Also makes you wonder if Machcek is ready to take the step.

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11-19-2012, 01:30 PM
  #373
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Don't disagree. But that says to me anyway, that we have a bunch of hard working, lunch bucket types, who can't score - in St John's, right now. Burmi might be doing 'fine' but then our depth of quality point producers, at the AHL level, right now is low.

Also makes you wonder if Machcek is ready to take the step.
Well, ya! I'd argue we don't have any "quality point" producing forwards in the A beyond Burmistrov. Telegin and O`Dell have some potential though.

The team is mostly hard working, fore checking, defensive guys that have a bit of offensive edge (Machacek, Cormier, Klingberg, etc)... Think about it. Machacek lead in points last year for the IceCaps and his totals weren't that great. They scored a lot by committee last season.

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11-19-2012, 01:32 PM
  #374
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Don't disagree. But that says to me anyway, that we have a bunch of hard working, lunch bucket types, who can't score - in St John's, right now. Burmi might be doing 'fine' but then our depth of quality point producers, at the AHL level, right now is low.

Also makes you wonder if Machcek is ready to take the step.
Also wonder about Machcek, he showed a lot of promise when he was called up late in the season last year, thought for sure he could easily step into Tanner Glass's spot. Looks to me like the whole Ice Caps squad is in a scoring funk, Klingberg, Maxwell, Gagnon, Jaffrey etc. just not producing. Besides Burmi the other guys at the top of the St. Johns scoring race are all D men. Makes you wonder if St. Johns is carrying too many of the same type of player, low scoring, defensive type forwards.

As some else alluded to it would be nice to see the TOI stats for each player in the AHL.


Last edited by sipowicz: 11-19-2012 at 01:39 PM.
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11-19-2012, 01:37 PM
  #375
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Clitsome and Slater were here in Yellowknife NWT last night for a charity game along with a few Senators players.

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