Didnt know Santana could be a option to just sign.
I'd like to think Escobar has decent value but not really sure. He's been pretty average 2 of the past 3 seasons and he certainly seems to have serious attitude question marks.
I don't know about serious attitude question marks. He hasn't said anything or done anything to his teammates. His body language kinda just seems bad and nonchalant. Bat has been inconsistent but it was pretty consistent before those years... I'm not sure what's happened. Maybe it's just bad luck or bad years or combination of both but he is still valuable. Most SS are terrible hitters and Yunel has shown he can be a good one with above average defense and that's really valuable.
Personally, I would like to keep him around for another year and have Hech get more experience in minors before handing him the job.
Lind is as good as gone. I am as sure about it like I am sure that the sun will rise tomorrow.
How are you so confident?
I feel that organization has given him way too many opportunities, and has taken the "lazy way" out when it comes to replacement players for him. It's hard to tell why this year will be any different, since people look to basic statistics and see 20+ HR + good production, and assume he's performing okay. Or, he has a hot streak in a small sample size and is suddenly given another chance. Look how long it took to get him out of the clean-up spot in the order. It's absolutely pathetic.
I agree with Nasty Nazem about this move potentially being the turning point for me with regards to management.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19
Edit: Moved to Blue Jays Discussion thread.
Cabrera is disgustingly overrated, and I will take Escobar over him 8 days a week. He's basically equivalent to Derek Jeter defensively. Yuck.
When Escobar is on, like he was last year, he is one of the better SS in the league. I can see the need to move him for a equal caliber starting pitcher since he has value and the Jays' need pitching, but for an inferior player, it does not make sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Jones
Kendrick is on my short list as well. But do you see him playing with "I play all the balls" Escobar, or "Second Deck" Hechavarria?
Escobar's still an above average shortstop, but the attitude is grating on me - doesn't seem to be a team guy. Hard to know how things are taken behind the scenes, but his on-field antics would piss me off if he werey teammate. Besides, he's a good enough asset to have considerable value in trade.
If the Angels approached you with a trade-offer of, Kendrick straight-up for Escobar, what would you do?
I am just hypothetically asking, because it makes sense for both teams.
I don't know about serious attitude question marks. He hasn't said anything or done anything to his teammates. His body language kinda just seems bad and nonchalant. Bat has been inconsistent but it was pretty consistent before those years... I'm not sure what's happened. Maybe it's just bad luck or bad years or combination of both but he is still valuable. Most SS are terrible hitters and Yunel has shown he can be a good one with above average defense and that's really valuable.
Personally, I would like to keep him around for another year and have Hech get more experience in minors before handing him the job.
Well he was apparently not that well liked in ATL and I can kind of understand why. Even little things like running in front of guys like Vizquel or Johnson to catch utterly harmless routine popups will eventually get under players skin. He seems pretty lazy and loves to showboat and I could see that grinding the gears of a coach over a full season. I'm not saying he's a cancer in the sense that he cause's huge problems in the dressing room but you see little things he does all the time that make you kind of understand why theres qualms about his attitude.
Well he was apparently not that well liked in ATL and I can kind of understand why. Even little things like running in front of guys like Vizquel or Johnson to catch utterly harmless routine popups will eventually get under players skin. He seems pretty lazy and loves to showboat and I could see that grinding the gears of a coach over a full season. I'm not saying he's a cancer in the sense that he cause's huge problems in the dressing room but you see little things he does all the time that make you kind of understand why theres qualms about his attitude.
Yeah but all that is so much easier to swallow when he is playing well and neither players or coaches will care about it. It's probably why all that stuff came out in the season when he actually struggled and the same is being talked about again when he is struggling. Everybody loved Yunel last year.
It's funny, fans didn't like Jose's attitude either when he struggling early on in the season. Nobody complained when he was doing well.
Yeah but all that is so much easier to swallow when he is playing well and neither players or coaches will care about it. It's probably why all that stuff came out in the season when he actually struggled and the same is being talked about again when he is struggling. Everybody loved Yunel last year.
It's funny, fans didn't like Jose's attitude either when he struggling early on in the season. Nobody complained when he was doing well.
Dude thats the way it is in professional sports. When a player that has attitude problems is playing well he will always escape criticism and coachs and fellow players will usually look past it but when he starts to struggle the talk will arise and it will start to grind on others more. At some point you have to wonder if his lazy showboating attitude is one of the reasons he struggles to show consistancy year to year. I'm not saying he isnt a good player or that we should just toss him away but after watching him for 2 plus years with the Jays you can certainly see why there would be rumblings of him not being well liked or having attitude problems.
I feel that organization has given him way too many opportunities, and has taken the "lazy way" out when it comes to replacement players for him. It's hard to tell why this year will be any different, since people look to basic statistics and see 20+ HR + good production, and assume he's performing okay. Or, he has a hot streak in a small sample size and is suddenly given another chance. Look how long it took to get him out of the clean-up spot in the order. It's absolutely pathetic.
I agree with Nasty Nazem about this move potentially being the turning point for me with regards to management.
Cabrera is disgustingly overrated, and I will take Escobar over him 8 days a week. He's basically equivalent to Derek Jeter defensively. Yuck.
When Escobar is on, like he was last year, he is one of the better SS in the league. I can see the need to move him for a equal caliber starting pitcher since he has value and the Jays' need pitching, but for an inferior player, it does not make sense.
If the Angels approached you with a trade-offer of, Kendrick straight-up for Escobar, what would you do?
I am just hypothetically asking, because it makes sense for both teams.
I just have confidence that AA is indeed a very smart GM and will unload Lind in any way necessary. He knows that he can't have him back as a starter if he has hopes to move this team to the next level.
If the Angels approached you with a trade-offer of, Kendrick straight-up for Escobar, what would you do?
I am just hypothetically asking, because it makes sense for both teams.
All other things being equal? I think I'd do it, because the quality and depth at 2B league-wide is pretty limited, and I like what Kendrick would bring to the table.
But 2B is only a problem I address if I've already got solutions in place for two quality SP, LF and DH. I'd be perfectly comfortable starting the year with Escobar and Hechavarria down the middle, if those other gaps were addressed.
In truth, I start to look at 2B because I see Escobar as one of the few roster pieces which carries a decent market calue, and for which I have a (nearly) ready replacement already in hand. This means Escobar becomes one of the pieces I consider moving in a package for a pitcher. In that scenario, I'm starting Hech at SS and looking to fill 2B.
Ideally? I'm keeping Yunel (or replacing him if he's considered a problem in the room, which is unclear), AND bringing in someone like Kendrick, so that Hechavarria can spend as much of 2013 as possible in AAA. Same with Gose: I'd rather have the depth in the organization that I'm not having to call on those guys until they're more ready, or until injuries force my hand. But I recognize that's not necessarily going to be realistic.
On the bright side, I like the progress we've been seeing from both Hech and Gose lately, which is encouraging for where they'll be next season and going forward. But yeah, I'd still like them to start in Buffalo and spend as much of the year there as possible: I don't want us in a few years having to go through all the debates and diatribes about how the Jays screwed them up like they did Snider.
can we move the roster discussion to the discussion thread? We've kind of got the same conversation going on in two different places right now.
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That's my assumption aswell, but I'm trying to stay positive here. Tried watching their game last night and my god it was a snoozer. Flipped over to the DEN/ATL game instead.
What the hell? Did anyone else hear the woman screaming like she was being knifed?
EDIT: For some reason, it irks me that Buck says "Junior Griffey" (he's done it before). Yes his nickname is "Junior", but it's not the kind of nickname that replaces his first name. It's not a Chipper Jones type name. It's just never been used that way. Just call him Griffey or Junior. Or Griffey Jr. But not Junior Griffey.
Tried watching their game last night and my god it was a snoozer. Flipped over to the DEN/ATL game instead.
