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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXX - Naughty Edition

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Old
11-26-2012, 12:20 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Ballard-Garrison
xxx/Connauton-Tanev
This is a horrendous defense.

It's highly concerning to me that Ballard has not shined in the minutes he's been given, against virtually the opposing team's worst players every game, but merely that's he's "performing well", and yet you think it's now a good idea to put him in a highly prominent role.

I would put Tanev in our top-4 before I would Ballard.

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11-26-2012, 12:27 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
This is a horrendous defense.

It's highly concerning to me that Ballard has not shined in the minutes he's been given, against virtually the opposing team's worst players every game, but merely that's he's "performing well", and yet you think it's now a good idea to put him in a highly prominent role.

I would put Tanev in our top-4 before I would Ballard.
Two(arguably three) top pairing defensmen and Ballard. Who has been doing well in the role he's put in. But given third pairing minutes and no PP time makes it kind of hard to put up points.

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11-26-2012, 12:53 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Two(arguably three) top pairing defensmen and Ballard. Who has been doing well in the role he's put in. But given third pairing minutes and no PP time makes it kind of hard to put up points.
Yeah, on the third pairing against weaker competition, and he's been alright, but nothing special enough for me to feel comfortable at ALL with him in the top 4.

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11-26-2012, 08:34 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Two(arguably three) top pairing defensmen and Ballard. Who has been doing well in the role he's put in. But given third pairing minutes and no PP time makes it kind of hard to put up points.
There's just no excuse to put up 7 points in 47 games. If Ballard is as good of a defenseman as you say he was or as his salary should indicate, he should be blowing away the easy assignments he's been given thus far.

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11-26-2012, 09:05 AM
  #480
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11-26-2012, 09:23 AM
  #481
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Not a fair comparison. Gomez's contract was a true albatross. Around the league he was known to have negative value because of it. So that trade was a win for NYR regardless. It's like saying Komisarek is "better" than Sauve. Yes, Sauve is struggling, but the Canucks would be daft to take on a 4.5m NMC Komisarek in exchange for an asset they can just leave in the minors.



Actually, the Kessel trade is something Tiranis has already discussed: The top3 pick coming back and making an immediate impact. Seguin jumped straight into the league and the rest is history. This is the future asset being good in a hurry, so as to mitigate the short-term affects, and make it a significant win long-term.
That still does not discredit the fact Gomez was a better player at the time. Had he not sunk into oblivion and McDonagh not exploded, the trade would not be anywhere near as horrendous as the perception is now, albatross is not. In actuality, your comparison is a tad unfair. We already know Komisarek is horrible right now, whereas Gomez, while never worth his contract, had respectable numbers.

And the win hinged on a gamble Toronto freefall to the basement. No one predicted either first would be as considerably high when that trade was made. Boston traded Kessel knowing in all likelihood they would end up with a 10-15 pick, perhaps slightly below. Not the second overall.

What off Heatley for Michalek? That worked out pretty well for Ottawa.

This isn't to say these were necessarily good trades, or other circumstances surrounded their reason. But instead to say the best player being traded does not guarantee a loss for the team moving him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
This is a horrendous defense.

It's highly concerning to me that Ballard has not shined in the minutes he's been given, against virtually the opposing team's worst players every game, but merely that's he's "performing well", and yet you think it's now a good idea to put him in a highly prominent role.

I would put Tanev in our top-4 before I would Ballard.
Hence we trade for Gunnerson, something Toronto fans have actually been on board with. Personally, I would chase Ryan before Voracak but Edler is not going to make or break us. Hamhuis has more than proven he can challenge for the #1 spot.

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11-26-2012, 09:32 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
This is a horrendous defense.

It's highly concerning to me that Ballard has not shined in the minutes he's been given, against virtually the opposing team's worst players every game, but merely that's he's "performing well", and yet you think it's now a good idea to put him in a highly prominent role.

I would put Tanev in our top-4 before I would Ballard.
If for no other reason, Tanev is actually a right side defenseman. Ballard suffers from the problem that we only have one veteran right side D - and a combo of Ballard-Bieksa is been done before (with the expected scary results).

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11-26-2012, 09:55 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Hence we trade for Gunnerson, something Toronto fans have actually been on board with. Personally, I would chase Ryan before Voracak but Edler is not going to make or break us. Hamhuis has more than proven he can challenge for the #1 spot.
You replace Edler with a 7 or a 19 points defenseman, with both of them playing soft minutes last season and your'e saying that Edler won't make or break us? Delusional. Regardless of whether it's Ryan or Voracek coming here, you're making the team worse. We don't have a single other D to run the PP.

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11-26-2012, 09:57 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Hamhuis has more than proven he can challenge for the #1 spot.
Based on what?

He's not a player that the team can confidently put out in all situations. Hamhuis just doesn't put up enough offense. The closest player we have that fits this description is Edler, despite his inconsistencies.

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11-26-2012, 09:59 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
Based on what?

He's not a player that the team can confidently put out in all situations. Hamhuis just doesn't put up enough offense. The closest player we have that fits this description is Edler, despite his inconsistencies.
37 points without top unit PP time is pretty good.

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Old
11-26-2012, 10:08 AM
  #486
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37 points without top unit PP time is pretty good.
You watch the games, and I watch the games. Hamhuis is not a playmaker on offense. Edler has thus far shown a much wider array of offensive skills and he still has much room to grow. Hamhuis is okay on the 2nd unit PP, but I would have completely no confidence in him being on the 1st unit. IIRC, when Edler was injured for a while a couple of seasons ago, the PP sputtered when the Canucks were unable to find a suitable replacement for Edler on the PP, and that included using Hamhuis.

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11-26-2012, 10:50 AM
  #487
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Ballard is going to be moved at some point to make cap space for Corey Perry.

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11-26-2012, 10:51 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
You watch the games, and I watch the games. Hamhuis is not a playmaker on offense. Edler has thus far shown a much wider array of offensive skills and he still has much room to grow. Hamhuis is okay on the 2nd unit PP, but I would have completely no confidence in him being on the 1st unit. IIRC, when Edler was injured for a while a couple of seasons ago, the PP sputtered when the Canucks were unable to find a suitable replacement for Edler on the PP, and that included using Hamhuis.
Agreed. Hamhuis and Bieksa both provide good transition offense at ES but don't have skillsets suited to a top powerplay unit, in my opinion. Hamhuis is fine when they need to shake things up, but he's not a guy you rely on for a top unit.

Edler often is, though his inconsistencies are infuriating for a player with his occasional brilliance.

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11-26-2012, 10:55 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Ballard is going to be moved at some point to make cap space for Corey Perry.
We can only hope. (And I'm a Ballard fan!)

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11-26-2012, 10:58 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Elbows of Bure View Post
We can only hope. (And I'm a Ballard fan!)
It wouldn't surprise me at all if part of the reason the Canucks are hesitant to take much contract back in a Luongo deal is because they want to have space (under whatever system the league has the next time there is hockey) to try and sign Perry. He's exactly the player Gillis covets. Being able to free up 10 million in cap space between Luongo and Ballard gives the team that flexibility. Might also be why they're playing hardball with Edler.

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11-26-2012, 12:20 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
Based on what?

He's not a player that the team can confidently put out in all situations. Hamhuis just doesn't put up enough offense. The closest player we have that fits this description is Edler, despite his inconsistencies.
Hamhuis ran our powerplay and actually managed to fix it after months of predictably. He may not be a playmaker but his passing ability is solid and he as a fairly decent, albeit less accurate, shot. We do not necessarily need offense from him, just setup, which he has demonstrated being capable of doing. Furthermore, we signed Garrison to help our offense on the blueline. Edler is certainly a benefit to the team, do not mistake that but, I see him expendable if we could acquire a decent defenseman through moving Luongo to make up the loss.

New York does just fine relying on purely defensive oriented defensemen as their top guys.

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11-26-2012, 12:35 PM
  #492
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Rangers power play is average at best (this past season - they were in the bottem ten of the league).

If I'm going to increase Hamhuis' icetime - it'll be during even strength situation given the rather large drop-off in proven talent after the top four.

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11-26-2012, 12:43 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Hamhuis ran our powerplay and actually managed to fix it after months of predictably. He may not be a playmaker but his passing ability is solid and he as a fairly decent, albeit less accurate, shot. We do not necessarily need offense from him, just setup, which he has demonstrated being capable of doing. Furthermore, we signed Garrison to help our offense on the blueline. Edler is certainly a benefit to the team, do not mistake that but, I see him expendable if we could acquire a decent defenseman through moving Luongo to make up the loss.

New York does just fine relying on purely defensive oriented defensemen as their top guys.
Don't sell Hamhuis's shot short. He's our only defenseman who doesn't hesitate to let a slapper go and he gets it on net.

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11-26-2012, 12:50 PM
  #494
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Don't sell Hamhuis's shot short. He's our only defenseman who doesn't hesitate to let a slapper go and he gets it on net.
Hamhuis was the worst of all our Top 4 defensemen at getting his shot on net and he also made the 2nd fewest attempts. Salo was the most accurate by a small margin but didn't shoot that much, then Edler, then Bieksa. (ES stats only, don't have the data for missed shots on PP.)


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11-26-2012, 01:06 PM
  #495
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Everyone keeps talking about who is going to run our PP, I think Hank will still run it from the wall.

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11-26-2012, 01:15 PM
  #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Hamhuis was the worst of all our Top 4 defensemen at getting his shot on net and he also made the 2nd fewest attempts. Salo was the most accurate by a small margin but didn't shoot that much, then Edler, then Bieksa. (ES stats only, don't have the data for missed shots on PP.)
Yeah, really the most important thing for defenseman to do on a PP is get the puck on net. We seem to do pretty well at deflecting the puck, that's why guys like Bieksa and to a lesser extent Edler have a lot of assists they get pucks to the net on the PP. To give credit to Hammer though, he makes an excellent first pass out of our zone.

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11-26-2012, 01:19 PM
  #497
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Everyone keeps talking about who is going to run our PP, I think Hank will still run it from the wall.
Of course Henrik will be the passer, but the down-low play between the twins and Kesler won't work without the threat of an effective point shot to keep defenders honest. Erhoff or a player like him is still the crucial missing piece. Hopefully Garrison can provide the shot, if not the passing/skating of Erhoff.

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11-26-2012, 01:22 PM
  #498
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Of course Henrik will be the passer, but the down-low play between the twins and Kesler won't work without the threat of an effective point shot to keep defenders honest.
You might give AV ideas at putting Hank on the point.

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11-26-2012, 01:31 PM
  #499
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Proposed something similar in the Lou thread on the main board and Toronto fans were all for it.

Tweaked it a bit before asking SJ fans and so far value wise they say its fair but they don't like Lou's contract. Now I made one last tweak.

To SJ:
Roberto Luongo
Clarke MacArthur

To TOR:
Antti Niemi
Mason Raymond

To VAN:
Ryan Clowe
Leafs 2nd in 13
SJ 2nd in 13

thoughts?

We get a top pwf and a couple picks while saving almost 4M in cap space. With how the recent proposals see the cap stay at 72M this year while dropping to something like 62M next year, shedding 4M now helps for next year so we do not have to pull a SJ and deal Edler for a fringe prospect and a 2nd, or sell off our depth like CHI.

This puts us at around 64M for this season, with Malhotra and Alberts coming off the books at the end of the year (3.6M) and Edler, Clowe, Higgins, Lapierre to re-sign, Tanev and Lack RFAs. Cap goes down Edler won't get more than 5.5M, I see us keeping one of Clowe or Higgins due to the cap as both would come back at around the same salary (so promoting Jensen/Kassian) everyone else gets small raises which would keep us around that 63-64M which would be over the supposed drop to 62M with no rollbacks


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11-26-2012, 01:37 PM
  #500
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Proposed something similar in the Lou thread on the main board and Toronto fans were all for it.

Tweaked it a bit before asking SJ fans and so far value wise they say its fair but they don't like Lou's contract. Now I made one last tweak.

To SJ:
Roberto Luongo
Clarke MacArthur

To TOR:
Antti Niemi
Mason Raymond

To VAN:
Ryan Clowe
Leafs 2nd in 13
SJ 2nd in 13

thoughts?

We get a top pwf and a couple picks while saving almost 4M in cap space. With how the recent proposals see the cap stay at 72M this year while dropping to something like 62M next year, shedding 4M now helps for next year so we do not have to pull a SJ and deal Edler for a fringe prospect and a 2nd, or sell off our depth like CHI.


Not enough coming back IMO. You're either making a hockey deal or going heavy on the futures for Luongo. Something in between doesn't address either need very well.

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