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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXX - Naughty Edition

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:25 PM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The potential guys would be Booth and Kassian. The middle 6 is up or debate really, as to who fits with who and which line should get more ice. The optimal scenario is to have both lines produce at a 2nd line rate. Similar to what BOS had/has with Peverly and Kelly on their 3rd line. We know Higgins, Kesler, Hansen and Booth can do it. The question remains can Schroeder and Kassian follow suit? If they can, look out.



Actually, if Higgins-Kesler-Hansen all produce at a 2nd line rate, how can that line be considered a "very poor 2nd line"?
Higgins is a 2nd/3rd line tweener and Hansen is a very good 3rd liner.
At times Higgins plays like a 2nd liner, but he lacks the overall talent to play like one year-round.
I would only put Hansen in our top 6 if he was playing with the Sedins. He's more suited to a 3rd line role.

I would put Kassian and Booth with Kesler (Kassian is more of a playmaker, so he should play well with them) as both are more likely to play as top 6 wingers, and Higgins and Hansen with Schroeder as they are better two-way players and not quite good enough to be consistent 2nd liners.
I don't feel too safe with two rookies/young guys on the same line (Kassian and Schroeder).

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:33 PM
  #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Higgins is a 2nd/3rd line tweener and Hansen is a very good 3rd liner.
At times Higgins plays like a 2nd liner, but he lacks the overall talent to play like one year-round.
I would only put Hansen in our top 6 if he was playing with the Sedins. He's more suited to a 3rd line role.

I would put Kassian and Booth with Kesler (Kassian is more of a playmaker, so he should play well with them) as both are more likely to play as top 6 wingers, and Higgins and Hansen with Schroeder as they are better two-way players and not quite good enough to be consistent 2nd liners.
I don't feel too safe with two rookies/young guys on the same line (Kassian and Schroeder).
I would agree whole-heartedly. I don't trust Higgins in a full-time top 6 role but love the fact he can step up into that now and then.

Kassian could be the perfect fit with Kes and Booth - but he does need to work on his consistency too. Playing with a guy like Kesler though may help carry him through his low-production times.

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12-31-2012, 01:38 PM
  #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
I don't really think it's possible to have Plekanec on our roster if the cap is $60 mil. It could be possible with $63 mil, but I think Booth would have to be traded away to afford it.

And if we get Plekanec, do we play him on the 2nd line and move Kesler to the wing, or do we have him center the 3rd line preventing Schroeder from getting a chance to play?
It would be feasible, I nearly slide under $65m whilst including Nielson. Subtract that trade, dump Ballard for scraps, run a little cheap on defense and we could certainly manage. Personally, Kesler shifting to the wing would be the solution I'd favor. His tendencies to pull a "one-man army" ought to make the transition easier. If it did come down to losing Booth, by all means, we do. Plekanec is far and wide superior and either Kassian or Jensen can replace Booth soon enough.

Perhaps, I am a bit optimistic but I do not see the cap dropping quite so drastically, in spite of the league's claims.


Last edited by Bourne Endeavor: 12-31-2012 at 01:43 PM.
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12-31-2012, 01:50 PM
  #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
It would be feasible, I nearly slide under $65m whilst including Nielson. Subtract that trade, dump Ballard for scraps, run a little cheap on defense and we could certainly manage. Personally, Kesler shifting to the wing would be the solution I'd favor. His tendencies to pull a "one-man army" ought to make the transition easier. If it did come down to losing Booth, by all means, we do. Plekanec is far and wide superior and either Kassian or Jensen can replace Booth soon enough.
Might be a problem the following season when Edler's new contract comes into effect.

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Old
12-31-2012, 02:22 PM
  #705
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With the way the negotiations have gone, with one thing being 100% necessary and then being removed the next week, I don't know that the dropping cap is any more reason to worry then, say, blocking any trade of a player with a life time contract and penalizing the team that signed it.

Moving Ballard and Alberts for someone cheaper (even internally) was my original goal, and shaves nearly 5 million off my proposal, meaning it is possible to slide under a 65 million cap with my changes. Amnesty buyouts, if a drop in cap space can be used as a reason to question a proposal, and rightfully so, then I think amnesty buy outs are just as likely.

If need be, drop the Luongo to the Leafs trade and, using other possible trade proposals, do something for futures for another 4+ in savings before a replacement (Jensen, Kassian, Schroeder) are brought up.

As for resigning Edler (and Higgins, and Lapierre, and....) is built on the premise that the cap won't be going down further, without a roll back of cap hits or something, and having another top six forward in Plekanec for a reasonable rate (he's at least a 50 point scorer, and while not Kesler good defensively, he can be played in any situation as well) could be more a blessing then a curse.

Higgins and Lapierre are due for small raises, and I see Malhotra's current salary working towards Edler's raise (ie from 3.25 to 5.75 at worst) and the only increase being someone to fill the bottom pairing position permanently (Pinizotto, Volpatti, even resigning Bitz).

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / David Booth ($4.250m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Steve Pinizzotto ($0.600m) / Dale Weise ($0.615m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) / Andrew Ebbett ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.900m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Derek Joslin ($0.700m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,815,000; BONUSES: $185,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $8,570,000

Easily under the 65 million proposed cap, but I am not anticipating a 60 or even 63 million dollar cap.


Last edited by Cogburn: 12-31-2012 at 02:29 PM.
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Old
12-31-2012, 07:25 PM
  #706
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Two Trades

Two trades to create a better future and a strong today! This my fantasy GM'ing skills at work

To Edm

Booth
Ballard
Schroeder
Lack
Ebb

To Van

Yakupov
Gagner
Tuebert
Khabby


and...

To Tor

Luongo

To Van

Kadri
Liles




Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Raymond-Kesler-Yak
Kadri-Gagner-Hansen
Higgins-Malhotra-Kassian
Lap

Edler-Bieksa
Hamhuis-Garrison
Liles-Alberts
Tanev

Schnieder
Khabby

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Old
12-31-2012, 07:30 PM
  #707
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Are you serious on the Edmonton trade? Easily no, and the oilers will not trade first overall without a massive overpayment. Starts with Schneider and Kesler+.

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Old
12-31-2012, 07:35 PM
  #708
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no to both trades. not enough coming back in either

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Old
12-31-2012, 07:38 PM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Might be a problem the following season when Edler's new contract comes into effect.
Nope, I added Burrows new contract and put Edler at $5M. We could still fit under a reduced cap, albeit just barely.

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Frans Nielsen ($2.750m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Dale Weise ($0.615m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.900m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,285,000; BONUSES: $185,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $5,100,000

-----------------

Drop the Nielson trade if need be and we squeeze under without concern. Alternatively, Booth could be moved, allowing Kassian or Jensen to fill the role upon graduation. Likewise, absent of the Nielson trade, Schroeder could challenge for the third line spot.

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Old
12-31-2012, 07:58 PM
  #710
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Oilers say no, we say no.

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Old
12-31-2012, 08:09 PM
  #711
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So Booth, the only asset in that trade with any value, bundled up with a cap dump, two prospects on a possible bust trajectory and a career AHL'er for Edmonton's first overall?

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Old
12-31-2012, 08:18 PM
  #712
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To Edm

Booth...speedy avg 20-25 goals
Ballard...top 4 d outside of Van system
Schroeder...high end prospect
Lack...Better than any goalie prospect except maybe MArkstrom in FLA
Ebbett...2 way center plug

To Van

Yakupov...#1 overall pick
Gagner...they have wanted to get rid of him for the last 2 yrs
Tuebert...solid D prospect
Khabby...aging veteran, probably drunk 39 yrs old


This trade gives up a #1 overall, a solid C, a veteran G and a solid D prospect...Edm gets a real goalie to build around LACK, Booth a solid veteran at a decent cap hit, Ballard a good d-good cap hit that can play under the right system, Schroeder will fit in a smaller team like EDM, Ebbett a solid two way player


and...

To Tor

Luongo...all-star goalie

To Van

Kadri...solid fwd prospect
Liles...offensive veteran d at a low cap hit


Trade gives up an all-star goalie and gets a high end prospect and proven offensive D to replace Ballard

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Old
12-31-2012, 08:23 PM
  #713
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Edmo with this deal...Lack can be a #1 goalie exactly what EDM needs!!!!!!!!!!


Taylor Hall ($3.750m) / Ryan N.-Hopkins ($3.775m) / Jordan Eberle ($1.158m)
Ryan Smyth ($2.250m) / Shawn Horcoff ($5.500m) / Ales Hemsky ($5.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.025m) / Teemu Hartikainen ($0.875m)
Ben Eager ($1.100m) / Eric Belanger ($1.750m) / Ryan Jones ($1.500m)
Darcy Hordichuk ($0.850m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Whitney ($4.000m) / Justin Schultz ($3.775m)
Nick Schultz ($3.500m) / Keith Ballard ($4.200m)
Andy Sutton ($1.750m) / Ladislav Smid ($2.250m)
Jeff Petry ($1.750m) /
GOALTENDERS
Devan Dubnyk ($3.500m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
BUYOUTS
Sheldon Souray ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,758,333; BONUSES: $9,237,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $15,706,667

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Old
12-31-2012, 08:35 PM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
To Edm

Booth...speedy avg 20-25 goals
Ballard...top 4 d outside of Van system
Schroeder...high end prospect
Lack...Better than any goalie prospect except maybe MArkstrom in FLA
Ebbett...2 way center plug

To Van

Yakupov...#1 overall pick
Gagner...they have wanted to get rid of him for the last 2 yrs
Tuebert...solid D prospect
Khabby...aging veteran, probably drunk 39 yrs old


This trade gives up a #1 overall, a solid C, a veteran G and a solid D prospect...Edm gets a real goalie to build around LACK, Booth a solid veteran at a decent cap hit, Ballard a good d-good cap hit that can play under the right system, Schroeder will fit in a smaller team like EDM, Ebbett a solid two way player


and...

To Tor

Luongo...all-star goalie

To Van

Kadri...solid fwd prospect
Liles...offensive veteran d at a low cap hit


Trade gives up an all-star goalie and gets a high end prospect and proven offensive D to replace Ballard
Booth - 20-30 goal scorer, I'll give you that.
Ballard - Bottom pairing D-man paid like a top 4. He's a cap dump and has negative trade value.
Schroeder - 18 pts in 28 games at the AHL level this year. He's a small forward who isn't even putting up numbers at that level yet. To overcome the 'small' label, he needs to light it up with the Wolves before he gets a shot. Right now he's a long way from being considered a top prospect.
Lack - You've really been drinking the CDC kool-aid on this one. Currently .899 and 3.00 GAA with the Wolves. Climie is out-performing him right now.
Ebbet - career AHL who will get the occasional depth call-up, dime-a-dozen

Swap Kesler for Ballard, Kassian for Schroeder, Schneider for Lack and then maybe.... Even then I doubt Edmonton accepts.

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Old
12-31-2012, 08:37 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
Are you serious on the Edmonton trade? Easily no, and the oilers will not trade first overall without a massive overpayment. Starts with Schneider and Kesler+.
I hope you're joking with Schneids and Kesler. That's ridiculously especially considering Yak would be considered a success if he turned into Kesler.

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Old
12-31-2012, 08:42 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
I hope you're joking with Schneids and Kesler. That's ridiculously especially considering Yak would be considered a success if he turned into Kesler.
I hope you are joking... Kesler would be a success if he regained 2011 form. Right now he's months behind in rehabing after a surgery. I'm worried that he won't be the same player again. Yak's top-end potential is arguably higher than Kesler's, and he's a younger and still on an ELC. His rights will be restricted for years. Kesler is well compensated, which means he doesn't bring the cap savings Yak brings.

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12-31-2012, 08:56 PM
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
I hope you are joking... Kesler would be a success if he regained 2011 form. Right now he's months behind in rehabing after a surgery. I'm worried that he won't be the same player again. Yak's top-end potential is arguably higher than Kesler's, and he's a younger and still on an ELC. His rights will be restricted for years. Kesler is well compensated, which means he doesn't bring the cap savings Yak brings.
His "ceiling" his higher. How many players actually reach that? And I hope you are joking when comparing cap hits because if you think that Yakupov is going to turn into a 70pt 2 way player before his ELC expires, you're sorely mistaken.

Worry all you like. This break for Kesler is a blessing in disguise as he's not rushing back into the lineup. His type of game results in injuries. If he played like a powder puff, he'd be junk.

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Old
12-31-2012, 09:02 PM
  #718
Vancouver_2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
I hope you're joking with Schneids and Kesler. That's ridiculously especially considering Yak would be considered a success if he turned into Kesler.
There is little motivation for the Oilers to trade with the Canucks, especially for Yak. Schnieder and Kesler will be the overpayment it needs to get Yak, i am not saying it is a fair trade because it isn't.

Not to mention the raeson being mentioned by Hammer before, Kesler might very well not be the same player again, whether he has his rest or not.

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Old
12-31-2012, 09:06 PM
  #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Booth - 20-30 goal scorer, I'll give you that.
Ballard - Bottom pairing D-man paid like a top 4. He's a cap dump and has negative trade value.
Schroeder - 18 pts in 28 games at the AHL level this year. He's a small forward who isn't even putting up numbers at that level yet. To overcome the 'small' label, he needs to light it up with the Wolves before he gets a shot. Right now he's a long way from being considered a top prospect.
Lack - You've really been drinking the CDC kool-aid on this one. Currently .899 and 3.00 GAA with the Wolves. Climie is out-performing him right now.
Ebbet - career AHL who will get the occasional depth call-up, dime-a-dozen

Swap Kesler for Ballard, Kassian for Schroeder, Schneider for Lack and then maybe.... Even then I doubt Edmonton accepts.
I agree this trade is still a definite "no" from EDM's perspective, but I think it's unfair to use only this year to evaluate Lack. He's battled injury the entire season. If you factor in his previous two years, he's one of the better goalie prospects around, and is still regarded as such by many.

Climie has played quite well, but to say he's "outplayed Lack" would require a few asterisks, IMO.

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12-31-2012, 09:08 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
There is little motivation for the Oilers to trade with the Canucks, especially for Yak. Schnieder and Kesler will be the overpayment it needs to get Yak, i am not saying it is a fair trade because it isn't.

Not to mention the raeson being mentioned by Hammer before, Kesler might very well not be the same player again, whether he has his rest or not.
Hammer's argument is speculative by nature. In both situations. Kesler may not be the same and Yakupov's potential.

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12-31-2012, 10:30 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
His "ceiling" his higher. How many players actually reach that? And I hope you are joking when comparing cap hits because if you think that Yakupov is going to turn into a 70pt 2 way player before his ELC expires, you're sorely mistaken.

Worry all you like. This break for Kesler is a blessing in disguise as he's not rushing back into the lineup. His type of game results in injuries. If he played like a powder puff, he'd be junk.
Yakupov may not play the same 2 way game as Kesler, but he will be one of the top RW'ers in the game within a few years and he will bag more than 70 points regularly, you can bet on it. Even after his ELC, he still has years of RFA status when he will be under-compensated w.r.t. his output.

All this break means is that the Canucks wouldn't be playing without their 2C, which would hurt us in the standings. They aren't going to rush him back if there is risk of re-injury. This slow recovery is a major cause for concern.

Quote:
I agree this trade is still a definite "no" from EDM's perspective, but I think it's unfair to use only this year to evaluate Lack. He's battled injury the entire season. If you factor in his previous two years, he's one of the better goalie prospects around, and is still regarded as such by many.

Climie has played quite well, but to say he's "outplayed Lack" would require a few asterisks, IMO.
Yeah, but the poster I was quoting referred to him as the best goalie prospect besides Markstrom. I just wanted to give a reality check on that. Also, I said 'out-performed' not outplayed. Stat-wise, this year, that's accurate.

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12-31-2012, 11:08 PM
  #722
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Two decent prospects and two overpaid bums with negative value for Yakupov and Gagner? Edmonton gets murdered in that deal.

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12-31-2012, 11:22 PM
  #723
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You don't, as a general statement, trade within your own division. Yakupov is a first overall pick, right now he's worth a TON.

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Old
12-31-2012, 11:27 PM
  #724
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Quote:
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Yakupov may not play the same 2 way game as Kesler, but he will be one of the top RW'ers in the game within a few years and he will bag more than 70 points regularly, you can bet on it. Even after his ELC, he still has years of RFA status when he will be under-compensated w.r.t. his output.

All this break means is that the Canucks wouldn't be playing without their 2C, which would hurt us in the standings. They aren't going to rush him back if there is risk of re-injury. This slow recovery is a major cause for concern.



Yeah, but the poster I was quoting referred to him as the best goalie prospect besides Markstrom. I just wanted to give a reality check on that. Also, I said 'out-performed' not outplayed. Stat-wise, this year, that's accurate.
To be fair, that's exactly where the goalie guild, who's opinion on goalie prospects I'd take over any other prospect site, has had him ranked for the last two years.

Climie and Lack were playing at about the same level until Lack was finally sidelined by his injury. Climie has been fantastic since then, however.

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12-31-2012, 11:45 PM
  #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Edm gets a real goalie to build around LACK
Possibly in a few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Ballard a good d-good cap hit that can play under the right system
Not a good D, not a good cap hit. And Edm is hardly the model for a good defensive system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Schroeder will fit in a smaller team like EDM
Small teams generally don't want to stay small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Ebbett a solid two way player
4th line plug.

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