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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXX - Naughty Edition

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Old
01-05-2013, 12:56 AM
  #851
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Not sure what to tell you, sounds like you're either very young or new to the sport. Not a place to debate between Vokoun, Luongo, and Lehtonen, so I won't continue, but they're not good comparisons from contractual to performance. Especially Lehtonen.
I've already said I hadn't watched much of Vokoun in Nashville. But while he was there his average sv% was .911. In Florida it was .923.

Lehtonen's average sv% before being traded to Dallas was also .911. Currently Vokoun in my mind is a top-7 goaltender in the league, having radically improved since going to Florida. However at the time of the trade he looked far more like a fairly good goalie, but to compare his calibre then to Luongo's(who in my opinion is a top-5, and by any standards is top-7) now seems quite ridiculous in my mind.

You can accuse me of stat-watching, and you'd be right, but I can't see how a difference of .911 to Luongo's current .919 average can be explained without there being a clear difference in calibre.

If Vokoun's value was a 1st, a 2nd, and another conditional 2nd, then I have no doubt in my mind that Luongo should garner more than that, if there is a team with genuine need for him(no, not Florida, but Toronto, Chicago, etc...)

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01-05-2013, 12:56 AM
  #852
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Originally Posted by ZenMaster View Post
I think its obvious that Gillis is looking for a big young center to fill the in the third line C, we are already loaded with wingers on the team and the pipeline. There was also confirmation that Gillis was after Bjugstad so this should tell you what type of player he is looking for as a centerpiece. I see Gillis targeting these players:

Drew Shore
Nick Bjugstad
Ryan Johansen
Sean Coutourier
Joe Colborne




Colborne hasn't been the same player since his wrist tear last year. Although he's starting to bring it on now(8 points in last 9) he isn't worth targeting at the moment IMHO.

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01-05-2013, 01:00 AM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I've already said I hadn't watched much of Vokoun in Nashville. But while he was there his average sv% was .911. In Florida it was .923.
\

If Vokoun's value was a 1st, a 2nd, and another conditional 2nd, then I have no doubt in my mind that Luongo should garner more than that, if there is a team with genuine need for him(no, not Florida, but Toronto, Chicago, etc...)



The thing is, at the time Vokoun was cheaper and younger than Luongo. It also was not as public as to how many teams inquired about him, if there is only 2 potential teams for Luongo, that won't be good for the return he'll bring back.

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01-05-2013, 01:09 AM
  #854
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Yup, he had a .920 and .919 save percentages in his final two seasons(over 100 games played).

Including 64 wins, stellar stats all around.
He's also had some pretty dang decent blueliners in front of him. Not saying they're *entirely* responsible for his solid play; but it is a noticeable factor. Eg., Timonen (when he was a top pairing D), Hamhuis, sophmore Suter, rookie Weber, Zidlicky). Canucks, only right now, have a fivesome in the ballpark of those guys.

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01-05-2013, 01:12 AM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
[/B]

The thing is, at the time Vokoun was cheaper and younger than Luongo. It also was not as public as to how many teams inquired about him, if there is only 2 potential teams for Luongo, that won't be good for the return he'll bring back.
Potential teams are, imo:

Toronto
Edmonton
Chicago
Florida
Columbus

With San Jose, Washington, Philadelphia, and Ottawa having very, very outside chances.

Who all likely have varying degrees of interest. Which means that whichever team is most interested has to outbid the team that is second most interested. How much interest there actualy is remains to be seen.

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01-05-2013, 01:17 AM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
He's also had some pretty decent blueliners in front of him. Not saying they're *entirely* responsible for his solid play; but it is a noticeable factor. Eg., Timonen (when he was a top pairing D), Hamhuis, sophmore Suter, rookie Weber, Zidlicky).
He wasn't afforded the luxury of stellar defence in Florida, and he still put up great numbers.

Guys like Hamhuis, Weber(only 1 year) Suter and Klein were all young players and not what they are today, although still solid. When they did make young mistakes you had Vokoun there to bail them out.

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01-05-2013, 01:18 AM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Potential teams are, imo:

Toronto
Edmonton
Chicago
Florida
Columbus

With San Jose, Washington, Philadelphia, and Ottawa having very, very outside chances.

Who all likely have varying degrees of interest. Which means that whichever team is most interested has to outbid the team that is second most interested. How much interest there actualy is remains to be seen.
Would you really want to trade Luongo to Chicago? That would be nuts.

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01-05-2013, 01:20 AM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
Would you really want to trade Luongo to Chicago? That would be nuts.
Why?

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01-05-2013, 01:24 AM
  #859
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Why?
Giving your number 1 Rival the only piece they are missing for a potential dynasty lol.

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01-05-2013, 01:25 AM
  #860
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
He wasn't afforded the luxury of stellar defence in Florida, and he still put up great numbers.
I was responding to the poster's comments about his time in Nashville not on the Panthers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
Guys like Hamhuis, Weber(only 1 year) Suter and Klein were all young players and not what they are today, although still solid. When they did make young mistakes you had Vokoun there to bail them out.
They still had a legit 1st pairing D like Timonen and top four guy like Zidlicky; throw in the coaching of Trotz and you have a situation tailer made for most goalies. Just like I would assume in Toronto with a coach that actually preaches a defensively sound system vs no defense system at all under Wilson.

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01-05-2013, 01:27 AM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
Giving your number 1 Rival the only piece they are missing for a potential dynasty lol.
Dynasty? Surely you jest.

They would definitely have to overpay to get Luongo, but if they were willing to make a sweet deal I'd be all ears...I'm not afraid of Chicago, even with Luongo.

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01-05-2013, 01:31 AM
  #862
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
Would you really want to trade Luongo to Chicago? That would be nuts.
I care a lot more about my team winning than other teams losing.

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01-05-2013, 01:33 AM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Canucker;57120023[B
]Dynasty? Surely you jest. [/B]

They would definitely have to overpay to get Luongo, but if they were willing to make a sweet deal I'd be all ears...I'm not afraid of Chicago, even with Luongo.
They won 45 games with a goalie like Crawford, he only had a .903 save percentage last year. Imagine a Luongo type goalie on that team, it would be very dangerous.

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01-05-2013, 01:48 AM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
They won 45 games with a goalie like Crawford, he only had a .903 save percentage last year. Imagine a Luongo type goalie on that team, it would be very dangerous.
They lack depth. Not saying they won't be better or dangerous, but I'm not worried about it.

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01-05-2013, 01:50 AM
  #865
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There is a big difference between a dynasty and a very good team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty...%29#Ice_hockey

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01-05-2013, 02:13 AM
  #866
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
He wasn't afforded the luxury of stellar defence in Florida, and he still put up great numbers.

Guys like Hamhuis, Weber(only 1 year) Suter and Klein were all young players and not what they are today, although still solid. When they did make young mistakes you had Vokoun there to bail them out.
Neither was Luongo in Florida, who was younger and less experienced, so I'd kind of say that statement isn't a valid argument. In fact, I'd argue that Florida with Vokoun was a much stronger team then Florida with Luongo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
Giving your number 1 Rival the only piece they are missing for a potential dynasty lol.
For a piece that would make us just as a dangerous. We'd need a Hossa or a Sharp or even a Kane back. Keith and Toews I wouldn't expect, and Seabrook or Bolland simply aren't enough.

Double Whammy!

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01-05-2013, 02:57 AM
  #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
Would you really want to trade Luongo to Chicago? That would be nuts.
Makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than dealing Luongo to Toronto for a Bozak, Franson, 2 package which is essentially garbage.

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01-05-2013, 02:59 AM
  #868
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than dealing Luongo to Toronto for a Bozak, Franson, 2 package which is essentially garbage.
Only if they offer up something decent. If its the same value as a Tor of Fla deal I'd rather deal him to the east.

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01-05-2013, 03:02 AM
  #869
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Only if they offer up something decent. If its the same value as a Tor of Fla deal I'd rather deal him to the east.
If it's the package I mentioned then I'd rather keep Luongo. If Toronto is offering Lupul + but Chicago is offering Kane I'd take Kane in a heartbeat. But if Toronto is offering Lupul and Chicago is offering Bolland, I take Toronto's offer.

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01-05-2013, 03:21 AM
  #870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
They won 45 games with a goalie like Crawford, he only had a .903 save percentage last year. Imagine a Luongo type goalie on that team, it would be very dangerous.
You mean an average goaltender that chokes in the playoffs?

For some that I believe haven't given Luongo his due during his years here, some of you sure are apprehensive about trading him to a rival.

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01-05-2013, 03:33 AM
  #871
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You mean an average goaltender that chokes in the playoffs?

For some that I believe haven't given Luongo his due during his years here, some of you sure are apprehensive about trading him to a rival.
I have no concerns about trading him anywhere. There's nothing about his game that frightens me. All we need is the media to hype the game and that's enough.

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01-05-2013, 03:38 AM
  #872
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Neither was Luongo in Florida, who was younger and less experienced, so I'd kind of say that statement isn't a valid argument. In fact, I'd argue that Florida with Vokoun was a much stronger team then Florida with Luongo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post



For a piece that would make us just as a dangerous. We'd need a Hossa or a Sharp or even a Kane back. Keith and Toews I wouldn't expect, and Seabrook or Bolland simply aren't enough.

Double Whammy!
I actually made that statement to prove the Vokoun was very good goaltender both in his last two years in Nashville and his tenure in Florida. I also stated I think Luongo is better than Vokoun, in this very thread(lol).

It'll be interesting to see what the Hawks give up, can you imagine a cap circumvented contract for cap circumvented contract(Luongo/Hossa) lol!

I think Sharp, Kane, Toews and Keith are staying put in a type of trade like this.

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01-05-2013, 03:46 AM
  #873
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
There is a big difference between a dynasty and a very good team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty...%29#Ice_hockey
I said POTENTIAL

The Hawks just have it all(minus a goalie). They got a great offence, solid D, world class coach and solid young players both on the roster and coming up the pipe lines.

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01-05-2013, 03:49 AM
  #874
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
[B]

I actually made that statement to prove the Vokoun was very good goaltender both in his last two years in Nashville and his tenure in Florida. I also stated I think Luongo is better than Vokoun, in this very thread(lol).

It'll be interesting to see what the Hawks give up, can you imagine a cap circumvented contract for cap circumvented contract(Luongo/Hossa) lol!

I think Sharp, Kane, Toews and Keith are staying put in a type of trade like this.
Good, so we're not polarized here, we have some common ground still.

If we get Hossa, I am more then happy with the return. Both are of the same calibre, with Hossa being the PERFECT linemate for Kesler. They can keep Kane, Sharp, Toews and Keith, but that's the sort of trade I would accept, because they have the top six depth to trade one, and being a rival, we won't give them a star player for junk, or even smaller parts that hold value. If anything, we'd be harder on Chicago then Toronto, but they can afford it...even if they aren't willing to pay it.

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01-05-2013, 03:54 AM
  #875
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
I said POTENTIAL

The Hawks just have it all(minus a goalie). They got a great offence, solid D, world class coach and solid young players both on the roster and coming up the pipe lines.
Their defense isn't deep and they always end up overplaying Keith and Seabrook to the point they're exhausted by the time the playoffs come around. Can only imagine if one of those 2 breaks down for any period of time...big trouble.

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