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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXX - Naughty Edition

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Old
10-05-2012, 03:04 PM
  #176
y2kcanucks
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
There were so many plays to point to in that run that were bad luck, along with the save percentage being so out of line with the rest of the team, and the twins historical average, your failure to acknowledge it shows your bias. I know you understand sample sizes and shooting/save percentages when it comes to these stats so it isn't ignorance. I have no idea what the twins did that could have you despise them so much, it's truly baffling.
This past season, while their save percentages were much better than the 2011 playoffs, they still were amongst the worst on our team. Only Malhotra and Booth were worse than both twins, and Higgins was between Daniel and Henrik.

Sample size from the 2012 playoffs is too small.

From the 2010-11 season only Raymond was worse than Henrik. Daniel ranked tied for 7th (with Burrows) out of 13 of our forwards who played at least 40 games so that's decent, but was only better than Samuelsson (by .001), Higgins and Lapierre (who didn't even play most of their games with us).

Traditionally they are near the bottom on our team defensively.

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10-05-2012, 03:10 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Traditionally they are near the bottom on our team defensively.
Since when has anyone measured defensive play by save percentage?

What about their career +/-? If Henrik's -11 is so important from one playoff run, why isn't his career +181 also important?

What about their corsi ratings? I know you like corsi when it comes to other players, why don't the Sedins get credit for being great corsi players?

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10-05-2012, 03:12 PM
  #178
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Here we go again!

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Old
10-05-2012, 03:14 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Since when has anyone measured defensive play by save percentage?

What about their career +/-? If Henrik's -11 is so important from one playoff run, why isn't his career +181 also important?

What about their corsi ratings? I know you like corsi when it comes to other players, why don't the Sedins get credit for being great corsi players?
I thought it was established that general +/- isn't a good indicator of defensive performance?

Their corsi ratings are very high, but I think a lot of that can be attributed to their extreme offensive zone starts.

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10-05-2012, 03:20 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I thought it was established that general +/- isn't a good indicator of defensive performance?
I don't think it is a great indicator, especially in small sample sizes (like the '11 playoffs you keep pointing to) but if you're going to use their -11 over one run, surely their +181 over a much greater sample size carries more weight.

Their corsi has alway's been very good, even when they were only starting in the O zone 50% of the time. Keep grasping at those straws, you're bound to come up with something eventually.


Last edited by Scurr: 10-05-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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Old
10-05-2012, 03:20 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
Here we go again!

Haha.


I carefully avoided addressing the Sedins in my response to Y2K. No good can come of it. It's gotten to the point now that Y2K will use any scrap of Sedin commentary to sound off...

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10-05-2012, 03:23 PM
  #182
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Here we go again!
I know, I know, I'll let it go. I feel like if I keep letting him run down the Sedin's without calling him on it once in a while, it'll start to sound like the truth to some people.

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10-05-2012, 03:23 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Haha.


I carefully avoided addressing the Sedins in my response to Y2K. No good can come of it. It's gotten to the point now that Y2K will use any scrap of Sedin commentary to sound off...
I'll start placing bets on when the next round of dicussing who's fault it was in the SCF. I say 5 days from now.

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10-05-2012, 03:24 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
I'll start placing bets on when the next round of dicussing who's fault it was in the SCF. I say 5 days from now.


Try tomorrow.

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10-05-2012, 03:34 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I know, I know, I'll let it go. I feel like if I keep letting him run down the Sedin's without calling him on it once in a while, it'll start to sound like the truth to some people.
Because it is truth. Excuse me for not absolving the Sedins of blame when they don't get the job done (which is far too often). It seems like certain players on this team can do no wrong, while others seemingly can do no right.

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10-05-2012, 04:08 PM
  #186
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Double post.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 10-05-2012 at 04:14 PM.
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10-05-2012, 04:25 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Because it is truth. Excuse me for not absolving the Sedins of blame when they don't get the job done (which is far too often). It seems like certain players on this team can do no wrong, while others seemingly can do no right.
In your eyes only

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Old
10-05-2012, 04:30 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Because it is truth. Excuse me for not absolving the Sedins of blame when they don't get the job done (which is far too often). To me, Luongo can do no wrong, while the Sedin twins can do no right.
What you said is 100% true, funny how you can't see that.

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10-05-2012, 04:48 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Excuse me for not absolving the Sedins of blame when they don't get the job done (which is far too often).
I've acknowledged many times that they have to be better. I'm also able to acknowledge that we've been pretty good for a few years here and the twins have more to do with that than anyone else. We went from good to elite when they did.

I know that you can see the holes in your statistical argument against the twins, I've seen you argue the same things I'm arguing now. You know better but can't help yourself because you dislike them so much, which is crazy, because they are about the easiest players to cheer for that we've ever had. Too much Coaches Corner growing up I think.

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10-05-2012, 05:02 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Too much Coaches Corner growing up I think.
Not sure why Don Cherry gets denounced so often. Sure, he's said a few off-colour things here and there, but when it comes to hockey very often he is correct. At least I think so.

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Old
10-05-2012, 05:05 PM
  #191
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Not sure why Don Cherry gets denounced so often. Sure, he's said a few off-colour things here and there, but when it comes to hockey very often he is correct. At least I think so.
Don Cherry has a great hockey mind imo, he still picks great points that most people miss. He's also clearly very bias, both for Canadian born player's and guys that play a certain style. Cherry's bias forces him to make some very questionable arguments for and against players, a lot like Y2K does around here.

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10-05-2012, 05:11 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
By games 4-7 you could really tell how fatigued the team was. By then we were still getting scoring chances, but the B's were getting better ones and were able to capitalize on our battered and bruised defenseman.

We needed to win game 3 to win the Cup, I think. 2-0 would just not cut it. Too bad the Bruins came out like gorillas out of a cage in the 2nd, otherwise I think we would have had it.
Was it really that noticeable? It's been a while, but I don't remember that ever crossing my mind while watching... not until Game 7, that is.

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10-05-2012, 05:15 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Was it really that noticeable? It's been a while, but I don't remember that ever crossing my mind while watching... not until Game 7, that is.
There were times in those games that I mentioned where the team looked absolutely gassed which explains why there were times where the slow Bruins were skating around the Canucks.

It wasn't really so bad until game 6 and 7 I thought. Games 4 and 5 were just a tip of the iceberg.

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10-05-2012, 05:46 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Because it is truth. Excuse me for not absolving the Sedins of blame when they don't get the job done (which is far too often). It seems like certain players on this team can do no wrong, while others seemingly can do no right.
Yet you have no trouble absolving Luongo. C'mon, you're choosing to be a constant hypocrite about this: Luongo can do no wrong and the Sedins can do no right. No one is taking you seriously because "your truth" is rooted in your insanely obvious biases.


Last edited by Wisp: 10-05-2012 at 05:55 PM.
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Old
10-05-2012, 07:33 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
There were times in those games that I mentioned where the team looked absolutely gassed which explains why there were times where the slow Bruins were skating around the Canucks.

It wasn't really so bad until game 6 and 7 I thought. Games 4 and 5 were just a tip of the iceberg.
Ah I see. I always thought the fatigue only really started setting in from Game 5 onwards, and that the reason we got curbstomped in Boston had more to do with injuries and such.

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10-05-2012, 10:42 PM
  #196
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I don't disagree. The key line here is "if the net gain is worth it". My contention is that the net gain from Vanek would not be because he is a very limited player. However, the net gain from a Weber would absolutely be.


So I guess I'm saying that Vanek isn't worth the stretch. Isn't worth them breaking that covenant.
I'm just going to say it. Letting Ehrhoff go was mistake.

If we can add legit 1st line talent, our lineup would be completely free of holes. What's the point of cap space if you don't use it to fill your holes? We' also be losing Malhotra's salary in the trade.

So imagine:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Vanek(playing normal minutes for once)
Higgins-Schroeder-Kassian
Raymond-Lapierre-Hansen

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison
Ballard-Tanev

Luongo
Schneider
Lack


The best team in the league, if I do say so myself.

And we'd also be shedding salary in a Luongo trade, and in a year or so Jensen and Corrado/Connauton/Tommernes can replace Booth and Ballard, shedding even more salary.

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10-05-2012, 11:00 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Ah I see. I always thought the fatigue only really started setting in from Game 5 onwards, and that the reason we got curbstomped in Boston had more to do with injuries and such.
The end of game 4 I could really see it. After the 1st in game 5, they looked like they had played 23 playoff games.

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10-06-2012, 12:24 AM
  #198
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Nobody is making excuses for him. You gotta take the good with the bad. He's not Wayne Gretzky IQ-wise. In fact, probably one of the more poor players in the league in this aspect yet is still a very effective player. Yeah, he was not good in the playoffs but if we want to go down that road I could give you a list of who I thought wasn't very good in the playoffs:

Alex Burrows
Ryan Kesler
David Booth
Chris Higgins
Mason Raymond
Manny Malhotra
Jannik Hansen
Max Lapierre
Byron Bitz
Dale Weise
Sami Salo
Sammy Pahlsson
Aaron Rome
Zack Kassian
Andrew Ebbett
Kevin Bieksa
Dan Hamuis

I mean, that's pretty much 75% of our roster. He's in good company. How can you base such a strong opinion of a 5-game sample where a lot of players did not play well?
Byron Bitz?

He played significantly worse than everyone else did including Raymond in the playoffs, IMO. It needs to be pointed out, if we're being fair.

And not Gretzky-level is a crazy understatement.

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10-06-2012, 12:29 AM
  #199
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It's pretty clear that Luongo and the Sedins deserve about the same amount of praise/criticism, IMO. They've had pretty damn identical failures and triumphs.

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10-06-2012, 12:35 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
Byron Bitz?

He played significantly worse than everyone else did including Raymond in the playoffs, IMO. It needs to be pointed out, if we're being fair.

And not Gretzky-level is a crazy understatement.
Some rhetoric managed to slip in there somehow...

Bitz was pretty bad. He played 3 minutes and managed to take a game misconduct in those 3 minutes.

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