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François Allaire will not return as goalie coach for the Toronto Maple Leafs

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Old
09-19-2012, 04:02 PM
  #376
Mansfield
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Thanks - Damien Cox is a Burke Apologist.
LMFAO are you serious? cox has been bashing burke and co ever since he got here

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09-19-2012, 05:11 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
LMFAO are you serious? cox has been bashing burke and co ever since he got here
No you don't get it. Anyone who says anything positive about Burke even once is an 'apologist'. At least, according to the antagonists.

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09-19-2012, 06:35 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Wendel17 View Post
No. Cox can see the Forrest from the trees. He sees the big picture and understands that the organization, for the first time in a long time, is much further ahead than it has ever been.
I too see the "Forrest," and he's the GM.

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is much further ahead than it has ever been.

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09-19-2012, 07:40 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by dirk41 View Post
I too see the "Forrest," and he's the GM.


Good one.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I wonder how happy you'd be right now with Antropov as the first line centre and Poni as our top winger. You'd probably ***** yourself. The on ice results have not been there, but the players are better. It is only a matter of time.

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09-19-2012, 07:46 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by dirk41 View Post
I too see the "Forrest," and he's the GM.


Our Gm is the forest AND the trees. Quite talented he is.

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09-19-2012, 08:35 PM
  #381
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that article was actually really good. cox is a great writer when he sticks to facts and doesn't push his own agenda.

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09-19-2012, 09:43 PM
  #382
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Im glad to hear Wilson asked that the goalies play out more, it was painfully obvious that was a problem. If Allaire responded like a prima donna, good riddens.

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09-19-2012, 10:08 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Thanks - Damien Cox is a Burke Apologist.
Ha ha ha ha, this is rich.

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Old
09-20-2012, 08:37 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Wendel17 View Post
Even the most staunch Burke supporters will tell you that his biggest weakness is his big mouth and bold statements. Frankly, Burke has failed miserably at managing expectations because he has set expectations far too high with said mouth.

With that said, if you look at the actual work he has done, and the talent he is slowly assembling, you will see he is moving in the right direction. Yes, on ice results have not come yet, but I like this team on paper far more than the Stajan/Antro/Poni team he inherited.

He has made mistakes and to his credit has admitted to them (bringing in Versteeg, giving Toskala another chance, etc). He is not perfect. No GM is.
I certainly agree with you. Not everything he's done has been terrible (ex: restocking our prospect cupboard with good depth).

That said, he's blown it many many times already and it's because he hasn't been able to properly assess the quality of his squads in addition to his penchant for talking big but falling flat season after season.

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09-20-2012, 08:39 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by BrannigansLaw View Post
I certainly agree with you. Not everything he's done has been terrible (ex: restocking our prospect cupboard with good depth).

That said, he's blown it many many times already and it's because he hasn't been able to properly assess the quality of his squads in addition to his penchant for talking big but falling flat season after season.
Yeah. Burke should have came right out and said "we're looking at another top-5 pick this year".

That would have made everybody happy. What a blow-hard.

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Old
09-20-2012, 08:49 AM
  #386
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The on ice results have not been there, but the players are better. It is only a matter of time.
It is only a matter of time for every team in the league.

It is quite obvious that the Leafs GM is far from perfect.

He is an okay GM.

He's a Cup winning GM, there aren't a lot of them. He's like Feaster, a one Cup wonder.

Going to be interesting to see if either of those 2 ever win another.

We keep looking at the Flames here and wonder if they're going through the same thing JFj did. GM wanting to rebuild but ownership looking at Iginla and Kipper thinking there is one last shot in their careers. Feaster is restocking the cupboard as well, after years of Sutter.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Keon

He was the Leafs' leading scorer in the 1963–64, 1966–67 and 1969–70 seasons, and the team's top goal scorer in 1970–71 and 1972–73. Keon was considered one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and one of the best defensive forwards of his era.[3] He would usually play against the opposing team's top centre, and developed a reputation for neutralizing some of the league's top scorers. In 1970–71, he scored eight shorthanded goals, setting an NHL record.
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09-20-2012, 10:36 AM
  #387
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Mr.Burke simply can't help himself. Could have walked away form the situation with class but everyone knew that wouldn't happen.

http://http://www.ourhometown.ca/edm...rts/RS0404.php

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09-20-2012, 10:44 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by fuhr View Post
Mr.Burke simply can't help himself. Could have walked away form the situation with class but everyone knew that wouldn't happen.

http://http://www.ourhometown.ca/edm...rts/RS0404.php
Thanks, we value the unbiased opinions of people from Edmonton about Burke here in the Leafs group. Especially when they are as current and on top of the situation.

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Old
09-20-2012, 10:47 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
It is only a matter of time for every team in the league.

It is quite obvious that the Leafs GM is far from perfect.

He is an okay GM.

He's a Cup winning GM, there aren't a lot of them. He's like Feaster, a one Cup wonder.

Going to be interesting to see if either of those 2 ever win another.

We keep looking at the Flames here and wonder if they're going through the same thing JFj did. GM wanting to rebuild but ownership looking at Iginla and Kipper thinking there is one last shot in their careers. Feaster is restocking the cupboard as well, after years of Sutter.
The only real deal Burke has made that we can question is the Kessel trade. All the others were fairly good swaps of quantity for upgraded quality. His biggest mistake was keeping Wilson around far too long, and that was really out of friendship. Had they had a coach that implemented a rigid defensive system I think we would have seen better results, and people would have been a lot happier.

I don't agree that he is an OK GM. I think he is definitely above average. He has proven to be a shrewd hockey man and opportunist everywhere he has been. Getting Pronger in Hartford, the Sedins in Vancouver, and Pronger and Niedermayer in ANA were all great moves that you don't see made by a lot of GM's. The Kessel deal would have been up there as well had the team not finished so low in the standings.

I definitely sense there is a lot of anti-burke sentiment more because of his bravado and ego then on the actual moves he has made. Before he came this team was in limbo, just getting by with a ceiling of 9th place in the conference. We have a much brighter future today than we did back then. With that said there is a lot more work to be done.

Not even Ken Holland himself could have turned this ship around so quickly.

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09-20-2012, 12:43 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Thanks - Damien Cox is a Burke Apologist.
This is easily the funniest thing I have ever read. Surely you weren't serious.

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09-20-2012, 01:07 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Wendel17 View Post
The only real deal Burke has made that we can question is the Kessel trade. All the others were fairly good swaps of quantity for upgraded quality. His biggest mistake was keeping Wilson around far too long, and that was really out of friendship. Had they had a coach that implemented a rigid defensive system I think we would have seen better results, and people would have been a lot happier.

I don't agree that he is an OK GM. I think he is definitely above average. He has proven to be a shrewd hockey man and opportunist everywhere he has been. Getting Pronger in Hartford, the Sedins in Vancouver, and Pronger and Niedermayer in ANA were all great moves that you don't see made by a lot of GM's. The Kessel deal would have been up there as well had the team not finished so low in the standings.

I definitely sense there is a lot of anti-burke sentiment more because of his bravado and ego then on the actual moves he has made. Before he came this team was in limbo, just getting by with a ceiling of 9th place in the conference. We have a much brighter future today than we did back then. With that said there is a lot more work to be done.

Not even Ken Holland himself could have turned this ship around so quickly.
Well, the ship isn't turned around, so there's that.

He has plotted the course, and the ship is turning but it has been rough waters, some caused by navigation errors.

He's acknowledged the work done before he arrived in Anaheim, and had the assets to use 4 first rounders+ to pick up Pronger. He definitely was able to finish off the job there to land their Cup. The job in Toronto was a bigger job, and he underestimated it, but made the course correction after the fiasco during the TRADE season.

Not a lot of GM's have won the Cup probably around 34-35 over the history of the league.

Burke
Rutherford
Feaster
Lombardi
Stan Bowman/ Talon

all recent 1 Cup winning GM's.

Yes, they are better than average, the numbers clearly show average does not win the Cup.

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:35 PM
  #392
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How did a thread about a goalie coach who has become as stagnant as pondscum turn into a Burke bashing?

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09-20-2012, 01:42 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
How did a thread about a goalie coach who has become as stagnant as pondscum turn into a Burke bashing?
The only question that exists any longer is how long until a thread ends up as a Burke bash fest. We even have people in here acting as apologists for the Canadiens, believe it or not.

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09-20-2012, 03:11 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Well, the ship isn't turned around, so there's that.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply Burke has turned the ship around, just that no other GM would have been able to do it in 3.5 years, so it isn't necessarily a failing exclusive to Burke.

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09-20-2012, 04:25 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
How did a thread about a goalie coach who has become as stagnant as pondscum turn into a Burke bashing?
I was not happy about the Burke hire from day 1. However, seeing how many bashers in here, are the usual suspects, I am beginning to think MLSE made a great move by hiring Burke.

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09-20-2012, 04:33 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
What do you do with the Coach with the Worst record in NHL after 3 years?
You give him a contract extension.
WHen that coach has your teams sitting 4th in the conference and making you look like a genius, ya you give the man a contract extension.

And you want to talk about writing fiction.
Quote:
What do you do with the Worst Goalie Coach in NHL after 3 years?
You give him a contract extension.

Why?
Why? As the richest franchise in the league pay him to sit at home so no one else can use him. Who cares, why they offered him and extension. It obviously had conditions attached he didn't like.

Quote:
Because as ULF_ elluded to. Brian Burke is the Supreme Tank Commander
It is the only logical explanation. NO General Manager who suppossedly cared about Winning would do these things. No human being could attain that position and behave this foolishly.
Its all beginning to add up. The pieces are starting to fit.

Brian Burke - Supreme Tank Commander of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Wow, just wow.

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09-20-2012, 04:57 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
A) Trading for Kessel is not a tank.Burke did trade young assets to a rival,just to get into the playoffs,it failed while helping a team in our divsion.

B) A new GM may be honest and say this team isn't nearly good enough to win the East and say we need to rebuild while getting young assets for Kessel,Lupul,Grabo and possibly even Phaneuff.While Burke has done some mending to our prospect pool, with the biggest scouting team in the world, after 4 years there is only Reilly as elite/impact.Many of our prospects are the same good prospects other teams have,making the comparison to other leaf GM's argument invalid.

Burke has set no real course ,except putting the the agenda of others over Leaf fans.Last year was the biggest revolt of Leaf fans ever and when all is said and done,years from now,we will find that(his real agenda) out.
Dear god man do understand what you are proposing?

Bring a new GM and give him just enough time to clear out the players/mess he was left with and then dump him before he has a chance to finish his work because his first step in the process didn't bring the team all the way to the finish line.

A neverending turnstile of trading prime players for prospects and picks, until we luck out and get an EDM, PIT, WAS or CHI type run of PURE FREAKING LUCK.

Otherwise we could spend years of trading away assets and get CLB, NYI and ATL type returns.

The dradft is a crapshoot. Every year is different. A top 3 pick guarantees nothing.

IF Seguin had been JVR people would be lined up kiss Burke's backside.

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09-20-2012, 05:07 PM
  #398
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In my case? But I thought I was a Burkite? I'm so confused. Also still unsure how Cox fits?

And based on this definition, are you not also an apologist?

Or maybe an antagonist?
Actually I think he is closer to an abolitionist, as in he wants to abolish Burke's rule.

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09-20-2012, 05:24 PM
  #399
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How did a thread about a goalie coach who has become as stagnant as pondscum turn into a Burke bashing?
I would guess because Burke hired him, knowing exactly what sort of coach and person he was, and what style he preaches. If it was outdated 3-5 years ago as Burke said (funny since exactly 5 years ago Burke and Allaire were hoisting the stanley cup) why did he hire an already out of date coach?

Why did he call him the best goalie coach on the planet while apparently bringing in others to dilute what he was doing with the goalies?

I would find it a bit shocking if it didn't turn into a Burke bashing thread.

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09-20-2012, 07:11 PM
  #400
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It's a matter of clicking with the right coach. Players can have the potential and never fulfill expectations take for example the Toronto Blue Jays and Jose Batista. The coach changed his swing and approach at the plate and Jose became one of the best power hitters in the game. on the flip side not everyone on the Jays benefited the same way.

As in François Allaire in Toronto and the struggling goalies over the past few years. It's fair to state that the system Wilson was running with did not focus much on stability on the back end. creating a lot of odd man rushes and high quality scoring chances against his goalies. And look at other goalies around the league who use Allaire that back him and his methods 100%.

Ben Scrivens credits his success to working with Allaire and James Reimer had also played good with Allaire up until his concussion and also gave a lot of credit to the goalie coach. If Toronto management felt that François Allaire's methods were outdated then why keep him on as the goalie coach/consultant? If they felt like his methods were the root cause for the way the goalies have performed and felt the need go behind Allaire and coach his coaching basically then why keep him around in the first place?

I find it extremely hypocritical that he would do to one of his coaches what he didn't want done to him. And all this after stating time and time again that he would never interfere with any of their decisions or tell them how to coach. Would it not have just been better to just be straight forward and let him go? Or was it to hard to come up with a reason as to why you're firing the most recognized goaltending coach in the world. What ever the reason I blame Brian Burke for failing to do his job properly and deal with the situation before it turned out the way it did.

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