Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Luongo: "Whatever the future holds is going to be fine with me"
If I was Burke, I would've made that deal (2nd being conditional upon Leafs making the playoffs, 2014 3rd otherwise) prior to the lockout.... but I likely don't have as good information as to how far the cap is going to drop as compared to Burke. Of course I don't overvalue Kadri for no good reason like Burke does either.
Kadri's a solid prospect, with the potential to hit big. He would bring some much needed offensive creativity to the Canucks second line, and I'd love to see what AV could do with him defensively.
Also, wouldn't mind seeing Luongo in some more Canadian colors. Even if it was the Leafs
Ahh that definitely makes sense. Not too much size on that roster, but of course that's gonna change in the future with your bigger prospects making the team.
I'd honestly accept Connolly + Kadri + Holzer + 2nd for Luongo + 3rd but I may be the only one. Canucks need some offensive support and Connolly's just a short term stop gap for some offense and 2nd PP unit center/playmaker. I'm gonna get roasted, but what do you think? It's tough leaving Kadri and I may be out to lunch with him in the proposal, but the Leafs make the playoff with Kadri out and Luongo in.
Luongo
Reimer
*Don't know exactly where everyone fits or what side the play on D.
That team has a better chance of making the playoffs then if you guys had Kadri.
The thing is... you wouldn't get an offer anywhere near that from Toronto.
Kadri's movable, but as a piece who carries substantial value in a salary reduced NHL, we're not going to part with him and that many others.
Connolly, unlike Lombardi, has substantial value to Toronto because of his high end playmaking ability. Tyler Bozak is miscast as the #1 centre, and with the addition of JvR on the wing, Tim Connolly would likely make for a better option between JvR and Kessel once the Leafs decide it's time for their top line to play in the offensive zone. Lombardi's a guy who was expendable in trade before the CBA expired, and would be the first guy moved if the Leafs need to clear cap under the new CBA. Losing Connolly is actually a pretty big loss for the Leafs, and he'd probably be 4th-6th on the pecking order of players to move if they needed to clear salary. That being said, considering where the Leafs stand relative to other teams in terms of commitments, it's basically impossible for the cap to drop to that point, and there still be enough league-wide cap room for the current contracts.
Holzer is Toronto's only real physical defenceman with upside, and throwing a 2nd is just far too much value for a goaltender who could be a real problem for us down the road while we're not in a position to contend for a cup in the near future. The other poster is more in line with what Luongo could fetch from Toronto -- Kadri, and the unneeded centre.
Last edited by seanlinden: 09-18-2012 at 10:41 PM.
or maybe under a new CBA they will do the same thing as the NFL where no contracts are guaranteed and a team can just walk away from Luongo's deal? Does that make him even more valuable then under the new CBA?
while that's not likely to happen, it's no less likely than the new CBA putting restrictions on already negotiated contracts. Those contracts, including Luongo's, were negotiated under an active CBA, with those rules in place. If they now change rules, those contracts will be grand-fathered in, as they always are in any business that changes CBA rules that effect contracts. You can't just make those changes that impact previously negotiated contracts as they were done under the rules of the previous CBA.
Chances that the new CBA will now force restrictions on Luongo's contract that weren't there before are basically slim to none. But none of that even matters at this point - as no trade will be done until a new CBA is in place, so we will know full well what his value under a new CBA is when he's going to be traded.
This discussion should just end now until a new CBA is in place. Until then everyone arguing what his value is, are all just talking out of their ass. We have NO IDEA what his value under a new CBA will be. And we have no idea whether his value changes - improves or not - with the changes that the NHL may see under a new CBA. Again, there's just as good a chance that a new CBA improves his value as there is that it decreases. What happens if there are no more guaranteed contracts, with another 24% rollback in salaries? Is a $4mill/yr cap hit on Luongo, which a team can walk away from whenever they want, not make him a more valuable asset overall? Can you guarantee that won't happen, while the CBA changes all NTC to NMC where players can't be waived or their full cap hits continue to count?
We don't know what will happen... and therefore we don't know what his value will be when a new CBA is in place.. arguing otherwise is just pointless - like all these Luongo discussions have turned into.
Sure, we can talk about possibilities that nobody on either side of the table has proposed... but there really wouldn't be much sense in doing that.
We don't know what will happen exactly, but we do know the way the negotiations headed. The NHL didn't propose a rollback of existing contracts, and the PA certainly isn't going to. We also know, that's likely to be a sensitive issue amongst the membership considering how many are presently under contract.
What we do know, is that there are obvious systemic issues to fix... buring contracts in the minors, the cap circumvention deals, etc... but for the most part the current system works fairly well. The NHL proposed a max contract length, not sure what the NHLPA's counter to that was. The much bigger issue, is overall share of revenue, and calculation of HRR, of which the NHL proposed the cap end up around $60m this year, and the PA around $65m IIRC.
That gives us a base with which to estimate Luongo's value.
I'd honestly accept Connolly + Kadri + Holzer + 2nd for Luongo + 3rd but I may be the only one.
Perhaps, but I doubt you will find many Leafs fans willing to do even that. Connolly only has 1 year left on his contract, and it seems Carlyle is a bigger fan of his than Ron Wilson.
Didn't think I'd ever agree with a seanlinden post, but hell, that makes sense. I like Lombardi too, he's a nice piece despite the contract. Lombardi, Kadri, 2nd?
Personally, I do not see Lombardi as worth it. He is basically a reclamation project at this point, coming off a terrible season. Change the second to MacArthur would be the only way I'd consider it. Otherwise we are getting nothing to help us.
I would put JVR and Gardiner over Bjugstad, honestly. Both are high-potential, and are already in the NHL. Our future centre depth is pretty okay with Gaunce and Schroeder in the system.
I would put JVR and Gardiner over Bjugstad, honestly. Both are high-potential, and are already in the NHL. Our future centre depth is pretty okay with Gaunce and Schroeder in the system.
Yeah your probably right but after thinking about it I would probably add Colbourne right after Petrovic and Ashton = to Kadri
Didn't think I'd ever agree with a seanlinden post, but hell, that makes sense. I like Lombardi too, he's a nice piece despite the contract. Lombardi, Kadri, 2nd?
But this isn't any better then what most Florida fans were willing to offer(Upshall, Petrovic, Clemmensen/Theodore, 2nd)
If Toronto wants Luongo, they could at least do better than that(seeing as they have a greater need than Florida), by either upping the pick to a 1st, with our 2nd going the other way, maybe? And make the swap conditional on it being above a top-10 pick?
Bjugstad vs. Kadri... Kadri was drafted a year before Bjugstad, who's yet to play a professional game. Sure, he's got upside, but Kadri has just as much upside, and is further ahead in his development curve -- something that a team who's looking for help now will undoubtedly value.
Further along in his development = yes.
Same upside = Nope.
If given the choice, Bjugstad is the one I would want.
If given the choice, Bjugstad is the one I would want.
Bjugstad is untouchable at this point in a trade for Luongo. If Theodore/Clemmenson does really poor and Markstrom comes up and plays poorly/or injures himself. Then MAYBE Bjugstad would start becoming an option.
Bjugstad is untouchable at this point in a trade for Luongo. If Theodore/Clemmenson does really poor and Markstrom comes up and plays poorly/or injures himself. Then MAYBE Bjugstad would start becoming an option.
I knew somebody would misinterpret that comment. I'm not saying both Bjugstad and/or Kadri are viable options in trade. I'm just remarking on their potential as prospects. That's it.
FLA fans, I repeat, I am not suggesting Bjugstad is available for trade.
Kadri's a solid prospect, with the potential to hit big. He would bring some much needed offensive creativity to the Canucks second line, and I'd love to see what AV could do with him defensively.
Also, wouldn't mind seeing Luongo in some more Canadian colors. Even if it was the Leafs
I don't disagree that Kadri is a great prospect, but offensive creativity to the 2nd line? Uh, Kesler?
I knew somebody would misinterpret that comment. I'm not saying both Bjugstad and/or Kadri are viable options in trade. I'm just remarking on their potential as prospects. That's it.
FLA fans, I repeat, I am not suggesting Bjugstad is available for trade.
I knew what you meant. I was just restating facts because you just so happened to use his name in your post.
I don't disagree that Kadri is a great prospect, but offensive creativity to the 2nd line? Uh, Kesler?
Booth and Kesler are primarily goal scorers. Kadri adds an element of pure skill/playmaking ability that would work well to compliment them.
I'd probably be alone amongst Canucks fans, but I'd prefer Kadri to Bjugstad. I feel Bjugstad's value is artificially inflated due to Florida's needs at centre, and I feel we have a similar prospect in Gaunce. We currently have no one in our prospect pool with as much raw skill and versatility as Kadri, and he's also NHL ready, while Bjugstad might still need a year or two before he's ready for the NHL.
Booth and Kesler are primarily goal scorers. Kadri adds an element of pure skill/playmaking ability that would work well to compliment them.
I'd probably be alone amongst Canucks fans, but I'd prefer Kadri to Bjugstad. I feel Bjugstad's value is artificially inflated due to Florida's needs at centre, and I feel we have a similar prospect in Gaunce. We currently have no one in our prospect pool with as much raw skill and versatility as Kadri, and he's also NHL ready, while Bjugstad might still need a year or two before he's ready for the NHL.
I think Bjugstad's value is inflated by his size. A 6'6" top6 forward is a rarity in the NHL. Just recognizing that alone gets people projecting Getzlaf, Kopitar and/or Thornton on to him... Whether he gets there is a completely different story. But just the notion of him getting there, makes people covet him.
The other part of it is, is that Bjugstad plays a more versatile game. While he doesn't use his size all that much, he's still got the reach. And he plays the full 200ft. While Kadri, in comparison, is not known for his defensive acumen. So you can put Bjugstad in the bottom6. Let him grow. But you would be hard pressed to do that with Kadri -- it's just not his game.
That said, Kadri could burst onto the scene as a top6 forward and never look back... The safe money, however, is still on Bjugstad.
I think Bjugstad's value is inflated by his size. A 6'6" top6 forward is a rarity in the NHL. Just recognizing that alone gets people projecting Getzlaf, Kopitar and/or Thornton on to him... Whether he gets there is a completely different story. But just the notion of him getting there, makes people covet him.
The other part of it is, is that Bjugstad plays a more versatile game. While he doesn't use his size all that much, he's still got the reach. And he plays the full 200ft. While Kadri, in comparison, is not known for his defensive acumen. So you can put Bjugstad in the bottom6. Let him grow. But you would be hard pressed to do that with Kadri -- it's just not his game.
That said, Kadri could burst onto the scene as a top6 forward and never look back... The safe money, however, is still on Bjugstad.
I won't disagree there's a rationale for taking Bjugstad, just imo Kadri has the higher offensive ceiling(albeit riskier), is a prospect that we have no one close to in our system in terms of skillset(while I see Gaunce as a similar prospect to Bjugstad) and most importantly, he can contribute now, and with Kesler out and a hole on the 2nd line wing, Kadri should have no problem getting the ice-time needed to show his stuff.(As he plays both centre and wing). Both positionally, NHL readiness, and highest ceiling, Kadri has the advantage, while Bjugstad has the size and a two-way game, and is a safer pick.
Not that it matters which we prefer, because Tallon isn't likely to move their only potential top-6 centre unless Huberdeau breaks out at that position.
I won't disagree there's a rationale for taking Bjugstad, just imo Kadri has the higher offensive ceiling(albeit riskier), is a prospect that we have no one close to in our system in terms of skillset(while I see Gaunce as a similar prospect to Bjugstad) and most importantly, he can contribute now, and with Kesler out and a hole on the 2nd line wing, Kadri should have no problem getting the ice-time needed to show his stuff.(As he plays both centre and wing). Both positionally, NHL readiness, and highest ceiling, Kadri has the advantage, while Bjugstad has the size and a two-way game, and is a safer pick.
Not that it matters which we prefer, because Tallon isn't likely to move their only potential top-6 centre unless Huberdeau breaks out at that position.
Your talking as if a lockout isn't in effect. Kesler will likely be healthy by the time the lookout ends. As for Bjugstad. Huberdeau breaking out won't l change anything. He's still very important in our future blueprint. Especially if the age of RFA gets pushed back to 30.
Your talking as if a lockout isn't in effect. Kesler will likely be healthy by the time the lookout ends. As for Bjugstad. Huberdeau breaking out won't l change anything. He's still very important in our future blueprint. Especially if the age of RFA gets pushed back to 30.
This is a very interesting point as far as RFA status being pushed back. I don't know how much the NHL will really get. But if they get 30, it could be NHL GMs start to attach a value much closer to how a lot of posters around here treat prospects. Untouchables would stay that way, but it might make certain players offered in say a Yandle, JayBo, and Luongo trade package a better value.
