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Busting The Patrick Roy Myth

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Old
03-24-2013, 04:01 PM
  #301
seventieslord
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Anyone who calls Smith the "greatest clutch goalie of all-time" needs to look at how many playoff games he needed to win by a goal, and how many times he ever faced elimination... and while they're at it, the offensive numbers of the team in front of him.

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03-24-2013, 04:25 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Anyone who calls Smith the "greatest clutch goalie of all-time" needs to look at how many playoff games he needed to win by a goal, and how many times he ever faced elimination... and while they're at it, the offensive numbers of the team in front of him.

Good point. But.. is it Billy's fault that he was the Islanders netminder? Smith certainly was one of the key players that made that team a great dynasty.

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03-24-2013, 04:32 PM
  #303
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Good point. But.. is it Billy's fault that he was the Islanders netminder? Smith certainly was one of the key players that made that team a great dynasty.
Not his fault at all. By the same token, being the Islanders' netminder doesn't automatically make him the greatest clutch goaltender of all-time.

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03-24-2013, 04:34 PM
  #304
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Not his fault at all. By the same token, being the Islanders' netminder doesn't automatically make him the greatest clutch goaltender of all-time.

Isn't he one of the greatest?

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03-25-2013, 09:39 PM
  #305
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Isn't he one of the greatest?
It's actually really hard to say. Without being put in a large number of clutch situations, how can we really have a sample of performances to say someone is clutch?

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03-25-2013, 10:34 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Isn't he one of the greatest?
Of "all time"? He's on the cusp of it, however, his style of play, violent propensities and "acting", well, not exactly Marquis of Queensbury sportsmanlike behaviour which unfortunately his detractors can pretty much have a field day with. In one game in the late 70's I think it was, he broke 3 sticks in 1 period against the ankles & shins of his opponents. Thats not an easy thing to do with a goalie stick even if you wind up & windmill the sucker against a post, let alone at someones leg or ankle. Thats just plain psycho, and no excuse.

Reviled league wide by players & fans everywhere and for damn good reason. In Game 4 of the 83 SC Finals for eg, Smith pulls a Dive, fools Andy Van Hellemond, Anderson of the Oilers getting 5min's, Isles go on to win the game & the Cup. Post game Van H realizes whats happened, feels like a tool. Next year, 84 Finals with the Oilers & Isles at it again, doesnt bother calling a blatant charge by Anderson on Smith, getting even I suppose, along with a lot of other crap as its just not smart to be making a fool of Ref's period.

That being said, ya, Id call Hatchet Man a "clutch goalie". Good example of that being in Game 1 of the 83 Finals, setting precedent, absolutely stoning the Oilers of Messier & Gretzky 2-Zip, a loss that seriously deflated & demoralized a young team like that, never really fully recovering as he'd gotten right into their heads. Something he was absolutely expert at. Absolutely hated, and I mean hated the opposition. In 1980 as well the Playoff Format was changed from best Best of 5 to Best of 7 with another Round added. More series & games, longer road to the Stanley Cup. His record better than Drydens of the preceding decades Habs dominance when balanced and everyone else's he played against during that era so yes, "clutch performer".

Member of the HHOF and deserves it. But Top 5 All Time? Like at 2 or 3 where youve got him? Not in my Book. But y'know what, if you like that kind of goalie, your perfectly entitled to rank him wherever you want, even #1. Its a wonder he didnt end someones career quite frankly, probably shortened several, absolutely caused dozens to miss a lot of games. Thats not something Id ever be proud of but hey, for some, hockey is total & complete war. It certainly was for me when I played, but tell ya what? Rules of engagement. Some things you just didnt do, and taking out net crashers or screen shot artists like you were taking down a RedWood, just dont. A whacks ok, but not with intent to injure, never. Billy just didnt have any limits that way. He was dirty, he cheated, not impressed, but definitely clutch & a damn good goalie. If he couldve just cooled it a notch or two, no problem.

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03-26-2013, 04:54 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Of "all time"? He's on the cusp of it, however, his style of play, violent propensities and "acting", well, not exactly Marquis of Queensbury sportsmanlike behaviour which unfortunately his detractors can pretty much have a field day with. In one game in the late 70's I think it was, he broke 3 sticks in 1 period against the ankles & shins of his opponents. Thats not an easy thing to do with a goalie stick even if you wind up & windmill the sucker against a post, let alone at someones leg or ankle. Thats just plain psycho, and no excuse.

Reviled league wide by players & fans everywhere and for damn good reason. In Game 4 of the 83 SC Finals for eg, Smith pulls a Dive, fools Andy Van Hellemond, Anderson of the Oilers getting 5min's, Isles go on to win the game & the Cup. Post game Van H realizes whats happened, feels like a tool. Next year, 84 Finals with the Oilers & Isles at it again, doesnt bother calling a blatant charge by Anderson on Smith, getting even I suppose, along with a lot of other crap as its just not smart to be making a fool of Ref's period.

That being said, ya, Id call Hatchet Man a "clutch goalie". Good example of that being in Game 1 of the 83 Finals, setting precedent, absolutely stoning the Oilers of Messier & Gretzky 2-Zip, a loss that seriously deflated & demoralized a young team like that, never really fully recovering as he'd gotten right into their heads. Something he was absolutely expert at. Absolutely hated, and I mean hated the opposition. In 1980 as well the Playoff Format was changed from best Best of 5 to Best of 7 with another Round added. More series & games, longer road to the Stanley Cup. His record better than Drydens of the preceding decades Habs dominance when balanced and everyone else's he played against during that era so yes, "clutch performer".

Member of the HHOF and deserves it. But Top 5 All Time? Like at 2 or 3 where youve got him? Not in my Book. But y'know what, if you like that kind of goalie, your perfectly entitled to rank him wherever you want, even #1. Its a wonder he didnt end someones career quite frankly, probably shortened several, absolutely caused dozens to miss a lot of games. Thats not something Id ever be proud of but hey, for some, hockey is total & complete war. It certainly was for me when I played, but tell ya what? Rules of engagement. Some things you just didnt do, and taking out net crashers or screen shot artists like you were taking down a RedWood, just dont. A whacks ok, but not with intent to injure, never. Billy just didnt have any limits that way. He was dirty, he cheated, not impressed, but definitely clutch & a damn good goalie. If he couldve just cooled it a notch or two, no problem.


After reading your post, I like Billy even more.

Cheers

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03-26-2013, 11:17 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
After reading your post,
I like Billy even more.... Cheers
... Glad I could be of help. Battlin Billy needs all the friends & fans he can get I suppose. Playing goal is all a matter of degree's. He doesnt really get (nor do the Islanders of that era) the level of respect from the fans, several sectors of the hockey intelligentsia that he deserves IMHO. He played & came up through one of the more violent era's in the sport, was ultra-aggressive, ideal for the way the way the game was being played. Too many milquetoasts back then, before, after, to this very day. He took the clearing of his crease, keeping the shooting lanes open to a whole new level. Excellent skater, stickhandler, pretty good actor as well. By hook or by crook. Nothin wrong with that.

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03-26-2013, 12:14 PM
  #309
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... Glad I could be of help. Battlin Billy needs all the friends & fans he can get I suppose. Playing goal is all a matter of degree's. He doesnt really get (nor do the Islanders of that era) the level of respect from the fans, several sectors of the hockey intelligentsia that he deserves IMHO. He played & came up through one of the more violent era's in the sport, was ultra-aggressive, ideal for the way the way the game was being played. Too many milquetoasts back then, before, after, to this very day. He took the clearing of his crease, keeping the shooting lanes open to a whole new level. Excellent skater, stickhandler, pretty good actor as well. By hook or by crook. Nothin wrong with that.

Excellent. I am very pleased that you agree that Billy was the man. By hook or by crook -- this is what we need in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals.

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03-26-2013, 12:25 PM
  #310
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Of "all time"? He's on the cusp of it, however, his style of play, violent propensities and "acting", well, not exactly Marquis of Queensbury sportsmanlike behaviour which unfortunately his detractors can pretty much have a field day with. In one game in the late 70's I think it was, he broke 3 sticks in 1 period against the ankles & shins of his opponents. Thats not an easy thing to do with a goalie stick even if you wind up & windmill the sucker against a post, let alone at someones leg or ankle. Thats just plain psycho, and no excuse.

Reviled league wide by players & fans everywhere and for damn good reason. In Game 4 of the 83 SC Finals for eg, Smith pulls a Dive, fools Andy Van Hellemond, Anderson of the Oilers getting 5min's, Isles go on to win the game & the Cup. Post game Van H realizes whats happened, feels like a tool. Next year, 84 Finals with the Oilers & Isles at it again, doesnt bother calling a blatant charge by Anderson on Smith, getting even I suppose, along with a lot of other crap as its just not smart to be making a fool of Ref's period.

That being said, ya, Id call Hatchet Man a "clutch goalie". Good example of that being in Game 1 of the 83 Finals, setting precedent, absolutely stoning the Oilers of Messier & Gretzky 2-Zip, a loss that seriously deflated & demoralized a young team like that, never really fully recovering as he'd gotten right into their heads. Something he was absolutely expert at. Absolutely hated, and I mean hated the opposition. In 1980 as well the Playoff Format was changed from best Best of 5 to Best of 7 with another Round added. More series & games, longer road to the Stanley Cup. His record better than Drydens of the preceding decades Habs dominance when balanced and everyone else's he played against during that era so yes, "clutch performer".

Member of the HHOF and deserves it. But Top 5 All Time? Like at 2 or 3 where youve got him? Not in my Book. But y'know what, if you like that kind of goalie, your perfectly entitled to rank him wherever you want, even #1. Its a wonder he didnt end someones career quite frankly, probably shortened several, absolutely caused dozens to miss a lot of games. Thats not something Id ever be proud of but hey, for some, hockey is total & complete war. It certainly was for me when I played, but tell ya what? Rules of engagement. Some things you just didnt do, and taking out net crashers or screen shot artists like you were taking down a RedWood, just dont. A whacks ok, but not with intent to injure, never. Billy just didnt have any limits that way. He was dirty, he cheated, not impressed, but definitely clutch & a damn good goalie. If he couldve just cooled it a notch or two, no problem.
Absolutely great post!

As I stated earlier in this thread, the NHL needs more crazies like Smith. Personally I loved how dirty and nutso he was back there. Not only was he good, he was Chuck Norris was the insane people.

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03-26-2013, 12:33 PM
  #311
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Absolutely great post!

As I stated earlier in this thread, the NHL needs more crazies like Smith. Personally I loved how dirty and nutso he was back there. Not only was he good, he was Chuck Norris was the insane people.

Billy Smith and Bob Nystrom... those were the days

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03-26-2013, 01:23 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Billy Smith and Bob Nystrom... those were the days
Oh ya, absolutely superb team were the Islanders. Gritty as all Hell. They could beat you in any number of ways, any way you wanted to play it really. Sandwiched as they are between the Habs & Oilers, not sure they get the full respect that they deserve, and in fact Mike (last I heard working as a DJ at CHOM FM in Montreal, Electric Lunch Hour) Bossy's been known to complain about that. Smith reminded in some ways of Terry Sawchuk, anti-social, monosyllabic one word answers to the media usually spoken with a scowl, unlike the fan & media friendly Chico Resch.

As I mentioned, playing goal is a matter of degree's and if you came up through the late 60's & 70's required that you play it hot. Angry to some extent, because if you didnt, clear the crease & lanes, literally yell your lungs out at your Defenceman, often beyond harsh communication, they doing what your telling them to do, you were screwed. There just wasnt a whole tonne of talent available on the back-end. Thin. Billy excellent that way, and also transitional in playing the puck, turning the tables on offence before they even had a chance to try & orchestrate anything by jumping on a loose puck or errant pass, immediately firing it up to whomever.

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03-26-2013, 01:34 PM
  #313
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Oh ya, absolutely superb team were the Islanders. Gritty as all Hell. They could beat you in any number of ways, any way you wanted to play it really. Sandwiched as they are between the Habs & Oilers, not sure they get the full respect that they deserve, and in fact Mike (last I heard working as a DJ at CHOM FM in Montreal, Electric Lunch Hour) Bossy's been known to complain about that. Smith reminded in some ways of Terry Sawchuk, anti-social, monosyllabic one word answers to the media usually spoken with a scowl, unlike the fan & media friendly Chico Resch.

As I mentioned, playing goal is a matter of degree's and if you came up through the late 60's & 70's required that you play it hot. Angry to some extent, because if you didnt, clear the crease & lanes, literally yell your lungs out at your Defenceman, often beyond harsh communication, they doing what your telling them to do, you were screwed. There just wasnt a whole tonne of talent available on the back-end. Thin. Billy excellent that way, and also transitional in playing the puck, turning the tables on offence before they even had a chance to try & orchestrate anything by jumping on a loose puck or errant pass, immediately firing it up to whomever.
Well, Bossy complained about alot of things. I believe one of them was he claimed he was better than Wayne and didn't think he got enough respect for himself nevermind that Isles team.

That said, more Smith appreciation is never a bad thing.

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03-26-2013, 02:28 PM
  #314
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Well, Bossy complained about alot of things. I believe one of them was he claimed he was better than Wayne and didn't think he got enough respect for himself nevermind that Isles team....more Smith appreciation is never a bad thing.
Ya, well, see that right there as well. Mike Bossy, Prima Donna according to many. A-typical of the "Me Generation" of the 70's. Self absorbed. Entitled. You can go through practically the entire Islanders line-up & absolutely shred them to pieces as many had foibles that werent particularly attractive, whether it was Smith's insolence or Bossy's perceived arrogance. If your particularly nasty, you can just as easily do that to any team in any era, any player, take your pick. Even the iconic & ideal, like Beliveau, Orr, Gretzky or Yzerman, whomever. No ones perfect. I see your a Bostonian, Irish. You should go visit Dublin. Criticism of just about everything & anyone absolutely beyond nasty. Beautiful sunny day? Not good enough. Tearing people, institutions & icons to pieces a National Sport. And absolutely hilarious it be, because they can take it themselves so no harm no foul.


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03-26-2013, 02:40 PM
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Ya, well, see that right there as well. Mike Bossy, Prima Donna according to many. A-typical of the "Me Generation" of the 70's. Self absorbed. Entitled. You can go through practically the entire Islanders line-up & absolutely shred them to pieces as many had foibles that werent particularly attractive, whether it was Smith's insolence or Bossy's perceived arrogance. If your particularly nasty, you can just as easily do that to any team in any era, any player, take your pick. Even the iconic & ideal, like Beliveau, Orr, Gretzky or Yzerman, whomever. No ones perfect. I see your a Bostonian, Irish. You should go visit Dublin. Criticism of just about everything & anyone absolutely beyond nasty. Beautiful sunny day? Not good enough. Tearing people, institutions & icons to pieces a National Sport. And absolutely hilarious it be, because they can take it themselves so no harm no foul.
I have been to Dublin, I know where I get it from.

Maybe for my next infraction, I should explain that it is Irish genetics that make my retorts so nasty. Thereby I should be considered handicapped when it comes to laying the ban hammer on me.

nyuck nyuck nyuck.

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03-26-2013, 02:44 PM
  #316
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I have been to Dublin, I know where I get it from.

Maybe for my next infraction, I should explain that it is Irish genetics that make my retorts so nasty. Thereby I should be considered handicapped when it comes to laying the ban hammer on me.

nyuck nyuck nyuck.
Shanabanned

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03-26-2013, 03:14 PM
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I have been to Dublin, I know where I get it from. ... Maybe for my next infraction, I should explain that it is Irish genetics that make my retorts so nasty. Thereby I should be considered handicapped when it comes to laying the ban hammer on me.
.... well that explains everything BamBam. You should do I what I did though. First get yourself appointed as a Mod, then go Coco Loco. Go big or just dont bother at all BamBam. And not just once. No no no. Im talkin like a half a dozen times or more. Up & down like the psych jobs we truly are. Cant help it really. Take it from me and another brother from a different mother...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs

and the Irish excuse? Forget it.
They dont buy that around here.

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03-26-2013, 03:33 PM
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.... well that explains everything BamBam. You should do I what I did though. First get yourself appointed as a Mod, then go Coco Loco. Go big or just dont bother at all BamBam. And not just once. No no no. Im talkin like a half a dozen times or more. Up & down like the psych jobs we truly are. Cant help it really. Take it from me and another brother from a different mother...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs

and the Irish excuse? Forget it.
They dont buy that around here.

You sir have just called me an *******. LOL Maybe I should report this thread. HAHAHA. I would never, I take it as much as is given to me.

Won't buy the Irish excuse...well hot damn...it's for sale and for cheap, a pint of Murphys and shot of Cooleys. Notice I didn't name any of that orange provost stuff.

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03-26-2013, 03:37 PM
  #319
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Has anyone ever said that Roy carried either of those Avalanche teams on his back? I certainly don't remember hearing that.

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03-26-2013, 03:43 PM
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Has anyone ever said that Roy carried either of those Avalanche teams on his back? I certainly don't remember hearing that.
No, the only time that is said is for the '93 Habs.
The only thing that really gets said, and I agree completely, is that the '86 and '93 Habs and the '96 and ''01 Av's don't win those Cups without him.
Nor do the Av's take the Wings as far as they did in '02 just name one example of Roy taking a team further than they should, Cup or not.
I mean sure that series ended horribly for Roy and the Av's in game 7 but Roy was the main reason it even went 7 and the Av's really had no real business going more than 4 or 5 against that Wing's team in the first place. Let alone being up 3-2 at one point.


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03-26-2013, 03:45 PM
  #321
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You sir have just called me an *******. LOL Maybe I should report this thread. HAHAHA....
... and would you expect anything less from a fellow Irishman? Takes one know to one.

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03-26-2013, 03:52 PM
  #322
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All this thread did was remind me how good Patrick Roy was -- and for how long. Four Stanley Cup wins with a 15 year gap in between the first and the last, that is just insane.

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03-27-2013, 05:37 PM
  #323
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Patrick Roy carried that Avs All star team in 2001. Ray Bourque would not have gotten his cup had it not been for Roy that entire playoffs save for games 1 & 2 against the Nucks

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03-27-2013, 05:41 PM
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Has anyone ever said that Roy carried either of those Avalanche teams on his back? I certainly don't remember hearing that.
I recorded the Avs entire 2001 run. he most certainly carried the Avs that playoffs apart from maybe games 1 & 2 against the Nucks where he looked human. He was spectacular against the kings, stifled the blues and stole the cup from the Devils. The Avs hd no business winning that game 6. The devils threw everything at Patrick in that first period and walked away with a shutout.

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03-30-2013, 03:49 PM
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Has anyone ever said that Roy carried either of those Avalanche teams on his back? I certainly don't remember hearing that.
Even if no one said that, he was their best player during the Avalanche's 2000-2001 Stanley Cup Championship, as evidenced by his Conn Smythe Trophy.

The only time Patrick Roy was more of a spectator was during Colorado's 1995-1996 Championship due to how stacked with talent the Avalanche were.

But even saying that is a slight to Roy.

They probably would've lost in the second round to the Chicago Blackhawks without him, let alone in the WCF against a record-setting Red Wings team. Don't forget, the Avalanche/Quebec Nordiques choked as a top seed in the first round the year before.

If Roy wasn't Colorado's best player that year, he was certainly the final piece to the puzzle.

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