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Brian Burke vs. Marc Bergevin

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Old
09-19-2012, 07:44 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by HABitual Fan View Post
I guess I should ask Oiler fan who they want 1st overall and work from there
Wow, just realized how bad auto correct butchered that sentence. Anyway yeah, we seriously need to boycott all things NHL until they stop the Edmonton monopoly on budding superstars.

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09-19-2012, 09:14 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post

Every team has the ability to spend as much as the Leafs do, these owners are billionaires.
But they DON'T!!!
Burke's team is the only team that spends the MOST on it's GM, the MOST on their scouts, the MOST on their front office, and is of the minority that allow spending right to the cap ceiling each and every season.

Those are DRAMATIC advantages for Burke. The fact that other GM's might be able to AFFORD similar spending is absolutely irrelevant.
What they DO spend is what's relevant.

And Burke has a flat out DRAMATIC ****ing advantage over every single other GM in the god damn league.

And he's been unable to either develop elite prospects, or even sneak into the playoffs.


Last edited by ULF_55: 09-20-2012 at 08:10 AM. Reason: Talk about his contributions or lack of not what kind of person he is.
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09-19-2012, 10:26 PM
  #78
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Silly thread. How the hell can you judge Bergevin?

And bringing back Therrien is a good move?

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09-19-2012, 10:38 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
You're probably right, nothing to do the promotion/ probable raise. Everything to do with Toronto. Although why would he choose Montreal? If any team is a bigger train wreck than us.....
Can you explain to me how we're a bigger train wreck than you? Your team has missed the playoffs 7 seasons in a row(every year of the last CBA) and during Brian Burke's tenure(soon 5 seasons) has finished bottom of the standings. When was the last time you had a bonafide no. 1 goaltender? Right now, only Columbus might be a bigger train wreck than Toronto...

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09-19-2012, 10:41 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by CanadiensforLife View Post
Can you explain to me how we're a bigger train wreck than you? Your team has missed the playoffs 7 seasons in a row(every year of the last CBA) and during Brian Burke's tenure(soon 5 seasons) has finished bottom of the standings. When was the last time you had a bonafide no. 1 goaltender? Right now, only Columbus might be a bigger train wreck than Toronto...
The Canadiens are a disaster, you might have a #1 goalie. Hooray!

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09-19-2012, 10:53 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
The Canadiens are a disaster, you might have a #1 goalie. Hooray!
Only a number 1 goalie? Come on man, I know you hate the Habs but you can't deny we have some good young players on the roster and prospects waiting to come up in the next years. Guys like Pacioretty, Subban, Desharnais, Emelin are players any team would love to have. Our young prospects are top ten among NHL teams...we miss the playoffs last season and we're suddenly a disaster?

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09-19-2012, 11:01 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by CanadiensforLife View Post
Only a number 1 goalie? Come on man, I know you hate the Habs but you can't deny we have some good young players on the roster and prospects waiting to come up in the next years. Guys like Pacioretty, Subban, Desharnais, Emelin are players any team would love to have. Our young prospects are top ten among NHL teams...we miss the playoffs last season and we're suddenly a disaster?
Does the name Gomez not register with you? Your captain winger averages about the same amount of points per game as our captain defenseman. You aren't out of the woods just yet.

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09-19-2012, 11:04 PM
  #83
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Yeah Bergevin looks great, until you watch the Habs flounder, and those bright shiny prospects like Thrower and Collberg start busting.

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09-19-2012, 11:05 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by CanadiensforLife View Post
Only a number 1 goalie? Come on man, I know you hate the Habs but you can't deny we have some good young players on the roster and prospects waiting to come up in the next years. Guys like Pacioretty, Subban, Desharnais, Emelin are players any team would love to have. Our young prospects are top ten among NHL teams...we miss the playoffs last season and we're suddenly a disaster?
Yeah, and we have more of those guys every team would want. Phaneuf, Kessel, JVR, Gardiner, Grabovski, Kulemin.

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09-19-2012, 11:06 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
Is Montreal in better or worse shape, than the Leafs were when Burke took over?

The state of both teams right now is basically equal.
Montreal has a more solid grounding than the Leafs, easily. That's true when looking at the Leafs today and also in 2008 (no brainer).

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09-19-2012, 11:07 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by CanadiensforLife View Post
Only a number 1 goalie? Come on man, I know you hate the Habs but you can't deny we have some good young players on the roster and prospects waiting to come up in the next years. Guys like Pacioretty, Subban, Desharnais, Emelin are players any team would love to have. Our young prospects are top ten among NHL teams...we miss the playoffs last season and we're suddenly a disaster?
There's nothing special about the Habs at all.

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09-19-2012, 11:07 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by GreekLeafer View Post
Montreal has a more solid grounding than the Leafs, easily. That's true when looking at the Leafs today and also in 2008 (no brainer).
How so?

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09-19-2012, 11:11 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Disgrace of a human being is a little bit harsh...I'm not sure what you do to be a disgrace of a human being, but it certainly isn't being terrible at your job.

He's simply a disgrace of a NHL general manager.
LOL name me one GM who wouldn't have had major letdowns, problems, and setbacks while trying to rescue this complete wreckage of an organization coming out of the last lockout. Look what Holmgren inherited when he took over Philly. Tallon inherited Florida with a stocked prospect system and solid goaltending. Gillis inherited the team that BURKE AND NONIS BUILT after years of ****.

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09-19-2012, 11:26 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by GreekLeafer View Post
LOL name me one GM who wouldn't have had major letdowns, problems, and setbacks while trying to rescue this complete wreckage of an organization coming out of the last lockout. Look what Holmgren inherited when he took over Philly. Tallon inherited Florida with a stocked prospect system and solid goaltending. Gillis inherited the team that BURKE AND NONIS BUILT after years of ****.
After four years of Burke, the leafs just finished LOWER in the standings and we have LOWER rated prospects than when he arrived.
You're going to call that a couple of "setbacks"?
Ridiculous.
And those other teams you cited above are NOT the richest team in the league, did NOT have the highest paid gm EVER, do NOT have the highest paid front office, and do NOT have the highest paid scouting department.

He's been a disaster. A flat out disaster.
EVERYBODY knows this.
He will almost certainly be fired soon.

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Old
09-19-2012, 11:30 PM
  #90
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Let's have this discussion when Bergevin actually accomplishes something of note, shall we?

Otherwise this topic is just another opportunity for people to be UTTERLY hyperbolic.

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09-20-2012, 12:01 AM
  #91
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Bergevin did a tremendous job.

No really - he inherited a team that had a top 5 pick, he just showed up and made the exact same pick that 29 other GMs would have made if he was in that position.

Fuq me, is this the kind of crap that gets put up now...?

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09-20-2012, 12:37 AM
  #92
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Leafs are at the edge of their rebuild, Montreal is at the beginning/middle.

They got Pacioretty(#1 winger), Subban(top pairing D-man) and Price(#1 G). Everything else is either prospects like Galch(potentially a #1 C but he's a few years away) or filler guys. Plekanec(solid 2nd line C)

We got Phaneuf(top pairing d-man), Kessel(Elite #1 winger) , Lupul(solid top 6 winger), JVR(Potential powerforward top 6), Grabo(solid 2nd line C) Gardiner(top 4 d-man) and an a high end prospect in Reilly(top pairing d-man).

The problem with MTL is they are badly lacking offense and are quite small up front. Pacioretty is really their only bigger guy. We have size now in Kulemin and JVR. Skill in Grabo, Kessel and Lupul but we are missing the #1 C.

MTL beats us in goaltending though. Ultimately though I'd say Toronto is farther along in development and is on the cusp of a breakout year(but we need actual goaltending.)

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09-20-2012, 01:19 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Yeah, he's rebuilding the franchise like everyone wanted only they still can't see it.
They couldn't see that Wilson was a flop after year 2 either...This is more forgiving since on that front Burke is doing well...The Wilson ordeal, the only seriously huge mega bad decision Burke has made.

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Old
09-20-2012, 06:25 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by CanadiensforLife View Post
Can you explain to me how we're a bigger train wreck than you? Your team has missed the playoffs 7 seasons in a row(every year of the last CBA) and during Brian Burke's tenure(soon 5 seasons) has finished bottom of the standings. When was the last time you had a bonafide no. 1 goaltender? Right now, only Columbus might be a bigger train wreck than Toronto...
I believe it was right around the same time your superstar number one defenseman played a game, or the last time your 7.3m forward scored a goal. Of course it may also have been around the same time your team last hired someone based on skill and credentials, not ability to speak French. Ps- Burke has only been around for 3 seasons.

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09-20-2012, 06:47 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Because he's rushing Kadri right and all our prospects right?
No, because he's had more resources at his disposal than any other GM since arriving in Toronto, and over that time has won zero stanley cups, played 0 playoff games, and probably been bottom 5 in terms of points achieved.

The rest of his so called "accomplishments", are white noise. The only measure of a GM's success is his team's performance on the ice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Yeah, he's rebuilding the franchise like everyone wanted only they still can't see it.
Sure, but what good is cycling over all your players if the outcome is still the same?

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Old
09-20-2012, 07:06 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
No, because he's had more resources at his disposal than any other GM since arriving in Toronto, and over that time has won zero stanley cups, played 0 playoff games, and probably been bottom 5 in terms of points achieved.

The rest of his so called "accomplishments", are white noise. The only measure of a GM's success is his team's performance on the ice.



Sure, but what good is cycling over all your players if the outcome is still the same?
Do you think teams become Stanley contenders overnight?

Regardless, you were complaining about how our prospects were being handled, how they were being pressured. I think we can safely say management is not the ones doing this.

Regarding your second part,again, overnight?

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09-20-2012, 07:12 AM
  #97
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Bergevin walked into job with a #1G (Price), #1C (Plekanec), #1D (Markov), #2D (Subban) and a 3rd overall pick in a deep 2013.

Burke walked into a disaster along with 7th overall pick (outside of the deep six in 2009).

Not defending Burke but you can't compare the two situations.

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Old
09-20-2012, 07:32 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The writing is on the wall.

Leafs ex assistant GM Rick Dudley, whom is well respected around the league, freely chose working for Marc Bergevin over Brian Burke.

Burke even had to restrain Dudley's departure time, to post entry draft while still under contract, as he couldn't get out the door fast enough to join Montreal.

Dudley for one believes the grass is greener elsewhere.
You serious Mess? Tell me this is a joke!

Dudley was the #4 guy on the Leafs management team (behind Nonis, Loiselle, and Poulin; arguably Fletcher as well), a promotion to #2 would have been in anyones best interest would it not?

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09-20-2012, 08:08 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I can't decide ... is it good to get higher ranked players or did they fall for a reason?

The reasons don't necessarily have to be qualitative though. Where Forsberg and Grigorenko were selected demonstrates as much.

Said otherwise, it's good and fortunate to be in a position where higher ranked players fall.

Something our fanbase could learn from Detroit's for example.


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09-20-2012, 08:10 AM
  #100
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Every GM is a Schrödinger's GM in the first year and a half..

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