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What happened to Lecavalier?

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Old
09-20-2012, 11:01 AM
  #51
LightningStrikes
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I'm not trying to make this about Matt Cooke but he's an essential part in the answer to the OP's question:



1:43 - 2:05

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Old
09-20-2012, 12:23 PM
  #52
SmellOfVictory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
You say that and yet other Tampa fans come in and say:




and
They're entitled to their opinions, but in my discussions with other Flames fans, it's become abundantly clear that being a fan of a team doesn't mean one will have an accurate grasp of which players are better, or more "talented", if one is chooses to separate those two terms.

Additionally, you're comparing the peak seasons of a player at age 26-28 to a player who's not even 23 yet. For comparison, Lecavalier had barely broken 30 goals at Stamkos' age. There is nothing I've seen statistically or in the way they play that makes me think Lecavalier is/was more talented than Stamkos.

@Warrioroftime: Everyone notices that Getzlaf is ridiculously lazy.

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:14 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
They're entitled to their opinions, but in my discussions with other Flames fans, it's become abundantly clear that being a fan of a team doesn't mean one will have an accurate grasp of which players are better, or more "talented", if one is chooses to separate those two terms.

Additionally, you're comparing the peak seasons of a player at age 26-28 to a player who's not even 23 yet. For comparison, Lecavalier had barely broken 30 goals at Stamkos' age. There is nothing I've seen statistically or in the way they play that makes me think Lecavalier is/was more talented than Stamkos.

@Warrioroftime: Everyone notices that Getzlaf is ridiculously lazy.
We aren't talking about comparing my team vs your team or even value.

Purely who of the beloved Lecavalier and Stamkos is more talented and I don't think you'll find many will say Stamkos.

For comparison the league Lecavalier played in and who he played with and for are completely different to Stamkos.

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:15 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
They're entitled to their opinions, but in my discussions with other Flames fans, it's become abundantly clear that being a fan of a team doesn't mean one will have an accurate grasp of which players are better, or more "talented", if one is chooses to separate those two terms.

Additionally, you're comparing the peak seasons of a player at age 26-28 to a player who's not even 23 yet. For comparison, Lecavalier had barely broken 30 goals at Stamkos' age. There is nothing I've seen statistically or in the way they play that makes me think Lecavalier is/was more talented than Stamkos.

@Warrioroftime: Everyone notices that Getzlaf is ridiculously lazy.
I think this is a battle of semantics at this point. Lecavalier is very talented. Stamkos is as well. Lecavalier's game is not nearly the same type as Stamkos' though.

The brilliance of Lecavalier is summed up in one play that is etched in Bolts fan's brains. Spinning out of the corner with the puck against 3 Flames and finding Rusty with a perfect pass. Add that to what he does off the ice and he's my pick as best Bolt ever. Of course Stammer is only 23, he's learning and playing the game the right way with two of the best NHL ambassadors. Stat wise, Vinny was derailed and started his career in a different era.

This lockout is painful to everyone, Lightning fans included. Not only because we don't get to see Stamkos evolve. Not only because Marty St. Louis is long in the tooth. But also because Vinny is healthy again.

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:22 PM
  #55
Raym11
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stamkos is clearly better, hipster lecavalier lovers .............


this is just like everyone loving Kovalev so they could be different and say he was the best



Sorry the best dominate for more then 2 years, Stamkos is 4 years into his career and already had 3 dominant years compared to lecavalier 2 in like 13.

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:23 PM
  #56
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Big contract and injuries.

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:28 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
Ovechkin, Crosby, Heatley and Malkin say hello
I distinctly remember a period of time where the consensus amongst a decent number of hockey journalists and TV people was that Lecavalier was the best in the game.

It didn't last too long thanks to Ovechkin and Crosby's respective rises to dominance, along with Matt Cooke's cheap shot, but there was definitely a time when this wasn't an offbeat opinion.

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:35 PM
  #58
SmellOfVictory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
We aren't talking about comparing my team vs your team or even value.

Purely who of the beloved Lecavalier and Stamkos is more talented and I don't think you'll find many will say Stamkos.

For comparison the league Lecavalier played in and who he played with and for are completely different to Stamkos.
No, I'm not trying to compare teams, I'm just saying that the Flames (the team with which I have intimate familiarity) has a lot of fans who, despite their rabid fandom, I highly disagree with on basically everything. Just that, no personal slight against anyone in this thread, I don't necessarily take "fans of x say this about their player" as gospel unless I'm familiar with those fans.

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:44 PM
  #59
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The Cooke Effect

He was never the same

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Old
09-20-2012, 05:49 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
stamkos is clearly better, hipster lecavalier lovers .............


this is just like everyone loving Kovalev so they could be different and say he was the best



Sorry the best dominate for more then 2 years, Stamkos is 4 years into his career and already had 3 dominant years compared to lecavalier 2 in like 13.
Seriously.

Lecavalier's kind of the wrong choice you rooted for all those years and wish had turned out differently had X and Y happened, Stamkos is simply the machine who broke in and delivered. I am a big Lecavalier fan but he's also one of the most frustrating players to have followed the past dozen or so years.

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Old
09-20-2012, 05:52 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
We aren't talking about comparing my team vs your team or even value.

Purely who of the beloved Lecavalier and Stamkos is more talented and I don't think you'll find many will say Stamkos.

For comparison the league Lecavalier played in and who he played with and for are completely different to Stamkos.
Fan love is often irrational and not based on on-ice performance.

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Old
09-20-2012, 06:02 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Seriously.

Lecavalier's kind of the wrong choice you rooted for all those years and wish had turned out differently had X and Y happened, Stamkos is simply the machine who broke in and delivered. I am a big Lecavalier fan but he's also one of the most frustrating players to have followed the past dozen or so years.
I know what you mean, been a fan of him since 02 and was always waiting for when he'd break out and take the league my storm. He did it for a year and a half but considering I've been following him for a decade now, his prime seemed unpleasantly short.

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Old
09-20-2012, 06:06 PM
  #63
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Injuries I think are what have done the most damage.

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Old
09-20-2012, 06:08 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krut View Post
I distinctly remember a period of time where the consensus amongst a decent number of hockey journalists and TV people was that Lecavalier was the best in the game.

It didn't last too long thanks to Ovechkin and Crosby's respective rises to dominance, along with Matt Cooke's cheap shot, but there was definitely a time when this wasn't an offbeat opinion.
As do I, seems like yesterday, circa 05 is around when people were saying this about him.

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Old
09-20-2012, 06:17 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
He had 200 (92 goals) combined points in from 06/07-07/08.


Malkin: 191
Crosby: 192
Heatley: 187
Ovechkin: 204


One can absolutely make the argument that was the best forward/center during those 2 years.
Crosby was the best player in the NHL in 2006-2007 and was on pace to win the scoring race again the next year but suffered an injury. Instead, Ovechkin had one of the most dominant seasons ever in 2007-2008. Six players outscored Lecavalier that season, as well.

At no point, was he ever the best player in the game. Crosby, OV, and Thornton were all better players.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Krut View Post
I distinctly remember a period of time where the consensus amongst a decent number of hockey journalists and TV people was that Lecavalier was the best in the game.

It didn't last too long thanks to Ovechkin and Crosby's respective rises to dominance, along with Matt Cooke's cheap shot, but there was definitely a time when this wasn't an offbeat opinion.
I have no recollection of this. Crosby won the Hart in 06-07 and was the Hockey News', The Sporting News', and TSN's best player in 07 and 08. Ovechkin was absolutely magical in 07-08 and, after that season, he was considered the 1B to Crosby's 1A. I don't remember Lecavalier being top 5 in any of those polls.


Last edited by nowhereman: 09-20-2012 at 06:25 PM.
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Old
09-20-2012, 06:23 PM
  #66
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I wonder also to what extent the lockout de-railed some of the momentum he and the Lightning had after their 2004 cup? Maybe if he had transitioned from World Cup MVP straight to the ice in the NHL he would have fared better. Certainly the Lightning would have been a better team and that would have been an extra healthy year.

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Old
09-20-2012, 06:48 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Joe Thornton had 210 points, Datsyuk had 184 (plus a Selke), Iginla had 192 points (89 goals), etc. An argument can be made, but I don't think it's really any stronger than a substantial number of other elite players.
Not to mention that Iginla was injured in 06/07 (39-55-94 in 70 games) and was on pace for 46-64-110 which would have put him in third place two years in a row ahead of Lecavalier with 4 more goals and 208 points. Although it's all hypothetical and really doesn't matter since Crosby/Ovechkin/Thornton were all ahead of him as well. As I remember, he was regarded as one of the best in the game, but not THE best. I would probably place him fifth behind the other four players mentioned here for those two years.

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Old
09-20-2012, 07:24 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
Ovechkin, Crosby, Heatley and Malkin say hello
And none of them were as good as Lecavalier in the two seasons he is talking about. Lecavalier was completely dominant.

What happened? Matt Cooke happened. The end.

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Old
09-20-2012, 07:58 PM
  #69
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He never recovered from his wrist injury. He will never be the same offensive player.

Horrible contract for Tampa to be stuck with.

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Old
09-20-2012, 08:16 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
And none of them were as good as Lecavalier in the two seasons he is talking about. Lecavalier was completely dominant.
Is that why Crosby and Ovechkin won two harts, two Arts Ross trophies, two Pearsons, and a Richard during that time period?

Take off the homer glasses. Lecavalier is not on Crosby or Ovechkin's level and never was. Hell, Crosby outscored a prime Lecavalier by 28 points, playing on the worst team in the league, when he was eighteen.

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Old
09-20-2012, 08:49 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
And none of them were as good as Lecavalier in the two seasons he is talking about. Lecavalier was completely dominant.

What happened? Matt Cooke happened. The end.
Are you serious? He was very good but not on the level of a Crosby or Ovechkin.

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Old
09-20-2012, 08:53 PM
  #72
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I guess the hipsters have found their newest sweetheart.

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Old
09-20-2012, 10:22 PM
  #73
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I remember around the 30 game mark of the 07/08 season the Lightning played the Leafs and Vinny had the game winner via one-timer (either in OT or late in game). After that I remember telling my dad: "Vinny is finally living up to his potential, best current player in the game"

At that point it looked like he was going to be a force in the NHL. Since early 08 he hasnt been the same

Guess I jinxed him

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Old
09-20-2012, 10:42 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post

I have no recollection of this. Crosby won the Hart in 06-07 and was the Hockey News', The Sporting News', and TSN's best player in 07 and 08. Ovechkin was absolutely magical in 07-08 and, after that season, he was considered the 1B to Crosby's 1A. I don't remember Lecavalier being top 5 in any of those polls.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...t-in-2007.html

http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com...ry-season.html

http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com...t-sweeney.html

http://news.hockeydraft.ca/2007/11/2...nt-lecavalier/

http://my.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?us...6&post_id=3302

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1091704/


and to boot here's some of HF's own polls.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=378280
Vinny Beats out Thornton

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=454320
Crosby Narrowly tops Vinny

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/po...s&pollid=29156
Same poll 6 months later, Crosby still beats Vinny


Where do you think the guy stood after finishing 1st in goals, 3rd in points then followed up by leading the league in scoring for half the season?

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Old
09-20-2012, 11:29 PM
  #75
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Won his cup.... Complacency?
Injuries.
Big Fat Contract.


Very talented player. Not sure if he became the best player he could be.
Still. Solid playoff performer.

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