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Winnipeg Jets Prospect Thread 2012-13

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Old
10-17-2012, 12:47 PM
  #376
Tintin's Ghost
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I have been dissapointed with Sutter thus far too, and I was someone who always viewed him as a 3rd rounder with a name that pushed him to 2nd.
BUT, that being said, even if he was a complete bust, it is impossible for him to continue at this poor of a level AND for it to be the "true him".

Also, the reason why +/- is a terrible stat is because it doesn't rely on you alone. For example, Stuart single handedly caused Buff's - +/- with only 10% of Buff's pairing ice time, also Buff would have been + and Jones/Flood would have been negative if Pav was a statistical shot blocking robot that always allowed the same % of shots into the net.
Duly noted about Sutter's stat line inevitably has to pick up. I hope it's in time to help secure the Blades home-ice advantage. The East division is not exactly a powerhouse this year (possible exception the surprising PA Raiders) and that is against whom most of the Blades games have been so far but here's hoping.

Your point on +/- is appreciated. I appreciate the example, too. Interesting to see how that influences it. You sure seem to like crunching numbers, I hope you're making a killing off of derivatives in the financial market.

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10-17-2012, 12:55 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Yuen is extremely underrated and you're kidding yourself by talking about Sutter 'not looking good' because he was -2 in a game where his team won.

+/- is a joke of a stat and if that's what you're basing your view of development of a prospect on, you're a bit out to lunch IMO.

Thanks for all of your posts , personally I really appreciate that you provide your unique insight in general and specifically about Jet prospects of course.

I know you like Lowry a lot from your posts , can you give a more detailed view or scouting analysis of him , and how he has performed this year from what you have seen this season. Looking forward to seeing the game on TV tonight , he has many intangibles and if he continues to produce as he has , he would have to be considered a pretty legitimate prospect for the 2nd or 3rd line imo.

Cheers.

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10-17-2012, 01:37 PM
  #378
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Craig Button's first ranking of this years draft class.

Winnipeg will get a very good player , plus we have the ammunition to move up either with tour first pick or back into the first round at some point , as Kevin Cheveldayoff mentioned last year at the draft. Good position to be in , very good position. The talent base is being built , it is/will take time but we have moved forward and will take a big step with this draft class imo.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

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10-17-2012, 02:09 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
Craig Button's first ranking of this years draft class.

Winnipeg will get a very good player , plus we have the ammunition to move up either with tour first pick or back into the first round at some point , as Kevin Cheveldayoff mentioned last year at the draft. Good position to be in , very good position. The talent base is being built , it is/will take time but we have moved forward and will take a big step with this draft class imo.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649
The Jets like players that are the sons of players...

Could Max Domi be next?

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10-17-2012, 03:29 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Tintin's Ghost View Post
Yuen is underrated, looking forward to seeing him play tonight.

I'm not sure how you can say Sutter is performing at even a mediocre level. I know its only 11 games in but he is trending for a full season of play with a stat line of 6g- 6a- 12pts and -48 and 180 PIMS. I think most Jets fans, including myself, were expecting more from him and deservedly so. He was drafted in the top 40 and that increases expectations.

The emphasis on +/- may be too weighted. Your point that it is less relevant for a prospect is well taken. I assume it's because prospects are playing on teams where 90% aren't going to the NHL and there is the subsequent drop-off in skill level. However, Sutter projects to be a shutdown center and is tied for team worst -8 (with captain Brendan Walker). He is averaging almost one full goal against more than goals for when he is one the ice this year. To me, that is the antithesis of a shutdown center. And this is on a team that, while not "stacked", is hosting the Mem Cup and is built to go far in the WHL playoffs. With Siemens, Thrower and Dietz on the blue-line, the defensive support is certainly there for Sutter. Yet almost every single game so far his line yields more goals than they score. The fact that Sutter won't be a prolific scorer suggest to me that his bigger strength is defense but haven't seen that yet. this season.

I know you work with/for the Blades organization and are privy to a lot more knowledge than the average HF poster. So maybe I'm missing some subtleties and nuances to his game. If so, I hope to observe those tonight so I can obtain a more accurate picture of Sutter and his play.
Where exactly did I say that? I didn't. I was merely making a point about judging a player off of his +/-, especially just with a one game sample size. Sutter has been terrible this year, arguably the team's worst player.

In fact, here's a post I made about him on the prospect board just a couple days ago:

Quote:
It's a funny thing with Sutter. He's really come into the year with the attitude that he's got to score now that he's an NHL prospect. Yeah, he played second like minutes last year and put up points...but he did it because he was physical and went hard to the blue ice. Maybe after being taken in the 2nd round he thinks he's an offensive player now.

With how the Blades roster is shaping up, that's not the case. He needs to wake up a bit and realize that he's still got to be a grinder. He hasn't done that this season and in fact, that area of his game was a weakness for him down the stretch last season and in the playoffs. That, after playing the first two seasons of his career as a gritty and in your face player.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...7&postcount=79


I know Sutter, talk to him daily and think he's a great kid, but even going back to last year I had him ranked as a 3rd rounder and felt that the Jets reached for him at 39th overall.

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10-17-2012, 03:33 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
Thanks for all of your posts , personally I really appreciate that you provide your unique insight in general and specifically about Jet prospects of course.

I know you like Lowry a lot from your posts , can you give a more detailed view or scouting analysis of him , and how he has performed this year from what you have seen this season. Looking forward to seeing the game on TV tonight , he has many intangibles and if he continues to produce as he has , he would have to be considered a pretty legitimate prospect for the 2nd or 3rd line imo.

Cheers.
He's been fantastic this season. His offensive game has really developed well, as has his skating. He's always been a big, smart kid, but it's impressive to see him come so far in 18 months, despite not playing hardly at all last season.

His future is extremely bright. I think ideally he'll excel as a very very good 3rd line C, something along the lines of a Martin Hanzal, possibly.

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10-17-2012, 03:37 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
He's been fantastic this season. His offensive game has really developed well, as has his skating. He's always been a big, smart kid, but it's impressive to see him come so far in 18 months, despite not playing hardly at all last season.

His future is extremely bright. I think ideally he'll excel as a very very good 3rd line C, something along the lines of a Martin Hanzal, possibly.
You think Lowry has potential as a centre?

Has he been playing there much this year?

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10-17-2012, 03:38 PM
  #383
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Winnipeg Jets CHL Prospect Tracker - October Edition: Part 3

Everyone read it, comment on it and stroke my ego

Let me know what your thoughts are on the bottom

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10-17-2012, 03:43 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
You think Lowry has potential as a centre?

Has he been playing there much this year?
I've seen Swift Current 3 times this season, once live, and he played C in all those games. Even the other night when he put up 4 pts with Cheveldayoff in the building here in Saskatoon he played on the top line with Ryan Moser on LW and Coda Gordon on RW.

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10-17-2012, 03:56 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I've seen Swift Current 3 times this season, once live, and he played C in all those games. Even the other night when he put up 4 pts with Cheveldayoff in the building here in Saskatoon he played on the top line with Ryan Moser on LW and Coda Gordon on RW.
Nice. I haven't had the chance to see him play this year.

It will be interesting to see if he can stay there.

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10-17-2012, 04:04 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I've seen Swift Current 3 times this season, once live, and he played C in all those games. Even the other night when he put up 4 pts with Cheveldayoff in the building here in Saskatoon he played on the top line with Ryan Moser on LW and Coda Gordon on RW.
well noted. I'm a big fan of our prospects, and would not mind having a Martin Hanzal in the stable one bit...

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10-17-2012, 04:36 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I've seen Swift Current 3 times this season, once live, and he played C in all those games. Even the other night when he put up 4 pts with Cheveldayoff in the building here in Saskatoon he played on the top line with Ryan Moser on LW and Coda Gordon on RW.
Thanks for dropping by and shedding light on some of our key prospects RS

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10-17-2012, 04:57 PM
  #388
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NCAA Games for today:

Arctic Ice Hockey's:
Winnipeg Jets Prospect Tracker - NCAA Previews


CHL Games for today:
Sutter and Saskatoon Blades host Yuen and Tri-City Americans
Lowry and Swift Current Broncos host Everett Silvertips which is televised

Saskatoon Blades 3 - Tri-City Americans 2
Last Updated: End Game
Sutter 0-0-0 -1 2pim
3 - SAS L. Sutter, 2:05 - Tripping, 2 min (PP)
Yuen 0-0-0 +0 2pim
2 - T.C Z. Yuen, 3:15 - Interference, 2 min (PP)

Swift Current Broncos 1 - Everett Silvertips 3
Last Updated: End Game
Lowry 0-1-1 -2 0pim
2. S.C C. Lund, (3) (A. Lowry, C. Gordon), 7:21

Arctic Ice Hockey's:
Winnipeg Jets CHL Prospect Tracker - October Edition: Part 3
Written by yours truly. Everyone read it, comment on it and stroke my ego


Last edited by garret9: 10-17-2012 at 10:28 PM.
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10-17-2012, 05:30 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Where exactly did I say that? I didn't. I was merely making a point about judging a player off of his +/-, especially just with a one game sample size. Sutter has been terrible this year, arguably the team's worst player.

In fact, here's a post I made about him on the prospect board just a couple days ago:



http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...7&postcount=79


I know Sutter, talk to him daily and think he's a great kid, but even going back to last year I had him ranked as a 3rd rounder and felt that the Jets reached for him at 39th overall.
Lol and where did I do that? Oh, I see, I didn't. No matter.

That's a good blog. I would have to say that Shane McColgan is worse than Sutter so far. He was pitched by Blades's brass as the scorer we needed and, well, not so much...

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10-17-2012, 09:01 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Winnipeg Jets CHL Prospect Tracker - October Edition: Part 3

Everyone read it, comment on it and stroke my ego

Let me know what your thoughts are on the bottom
I am having trouble commenting on the bottom of the article as it keeps forcing me to a Facebook app? Nice write up Garret

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10-17-2012, 09:09 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I've seen Swift Current 3 times this season, once live, and he played C in all those games. Even the other night when he put up 4 pts with Cheveldayoff in the building here in Saskatoon he played on the top line with Ryan Moser on LW and Coda Gordon on RW.
I thought the Jets would be looking for a big, 3rd line center for the future. Maybe they have one in the stable already.

Perhaps Sutter and Lowry will be competing for that spot for 2014/15?

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10-17-2012, 09:38 PM
  #392
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I am having trouble commenting on the bottom of the article as it keeps forcing me to a Facebook app? Nice write up Garret
Thanks. Ya you either have to make a SBN profile or use your Facebook (I don't have facebook so I'm sure you can guess which one I did haha)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
I thought the Jets would be looking for a big, 3rd line center for the future. Maybe they have one in the stable already.

Perhaps Sutter and Lowry will be competing for that spot for 2014/15?
Can never have to many C's... Comier, Sutter, Lowry and Olsen could all become competent bottom 6 C.


Last edited by garret9: 10-17-2012 at 09:43 PM.
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10-17-2012, 11:04 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
He's been fantastic this season. His offensive game has really developed well, as has his skating. He's always been a big, smart kid, but it's impressive to see him come so far in 18 months, despite not playing hardly at all last season.

His future is extremely bright. I think ideally he'll excel as a very very good 3rd line C, something along the lines of a Martin Hanzal, possibly.

Watched him tonight and between periods they mentioned he tested at the top of all the physical tests they did during training camp. Like I said before the kid has intangibles galore.

He had one assist on the lone goal but should have had another on a great feed to the slot in the third which would have tied the game.

Like most or a lot of big players I still think his foot speed is lacking , a very common characteristic for players that size. With his work ethic that can improve though and if it does he has a real chance to be a significant contributor at the NHL level imo.

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10-18-2012, 01:29 AM
  #394
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Yuen may be the one of the best skaters, smoothest skaters I have ever seen. Will post a little more tomorrow when sobriety returns but Yuen looks like an Olympic skater out there. He's not short but he is shorter than most of the Blades (Tri-City boys were rather short. Especially Brian Williams he's like a skinny Theo Fleury without the fight) but he took way less steps in his stride than the rest of them and wasn't beaten to the puck once.

Sutter was really good on face-offs. Other than that, not much.

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10-18-2012, 09:58 AM
  #395
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Lol and where did I do that? Oh, I see, I didn't. No matter.

That's a good blog. I would have to say that Shane McColgan is worse than Sutter so far. He was pitched by Blades's brass as the scorer we needed and, well, not so much...
I would disagree with that. Through the first 5-6 games I would have agreed, since then, McColgan-Stransky-Nicholls have produced and Shane's a big part of that. The OT winner last night was a good example. Sutter hasn't done a ton, besides win draws.


As for Yuen, you guys have one of the best kept secrets in the WHL. Saw him live last night and I will echo some comments already posted, he was dynamite. A great skater, great stick work and positioning, excels at both ends of the ice and can play with a mean streak.

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10-18-2012, 10:15 AM
  #396
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Zach Yuen

I went out with a few buddies to watch the Wheat Kings play the Tri City Americans last saturday. We specifically went to see Yuen play.

Yuen is indeed a great skater, great mobility, long powerful strides and ability to get out of trouble in the D Zone with the puck. He won 80% of his battles when going into the corners. Positionally wise, you can see he is indeed a smart player. He anticipates and is able to read the opposing team's passes. He was able to stop a lot of plays just by having an active stick and anticipating the opposing team's plays. He looks like he's now a veteran in the WHL and had good repoire with the officials. Also looks like a guy who can lead as throughout the game he was directing traffic in the D zone.

The only thing I didn't see was a shot as he didn't get any quality chances so I can't comment on that. Not overly physical, just a really high hockey IQ. Noel and Cheveldayoff, along with some other Jets scouts were in attendance.

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10-18-2012, 11:18 AM
  #397
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I would disagree with that. Through the first 5-6 games I would have agreed, since then, McColgan-Stransky-Nicholls have produced and Shane's a big part of that. The OT winner last night was a good example. Sutter hasn't done a ton, besides win draws.


As for Yuen, you guys have one of the best kept secrets in the WHL. Saw him live last night and I will echo some comments already posted, he was dynamite. A great skater, great stick work and positioning, excels at both ends of the ice and can play with a mean streak.
The Blades top line played like a top line last night and McColgan was a big part of that. He's actually pretty strong on the puck when he wants to be. I am certainly rooting for him as he can be a really exciting player to watch. And man do we need his offense. Stransky looks really good. I forget who drafted him but they may have a steal of a pick there.

Sutter was ok and isn't some big sieve as I was thinking before watching the game. He is excellent on draws. Even when he lost he nullified the other center right away and battles in his own zone non stop. It seemed to me like he was playing a really simple game and was consciously trying not to do too much. How the heck did he score as often as he did last year?
He's a big boy, especially for a capable center, so it would be awesome for the Blades (and the Jets) if he could throw his weight around more. Took a bad tripping penalty but that was only "mistake" I saw. I think his draft position made me hopeful he had some firepower to go with his defense but the Cormier comparison by another poster seems pretty apt.

Yuen is so good as a skater. Like SOOO good. If i could skate like him I would do a bunch of laps during pre-skate to show off. Thankfully Yuen is not crazy like that. He has powerful strides and his legs look really thick. Bodes well for him. To say he is low key in the offensive zone is being mild. He supports the play just fine but is definitely the first man back. I imagine that is what Tri-City wants as Yuen is the best-skating d-man on their team. You can tell he has smarts though as he was always in position in his own end and broke up a few good passes by the Blades. There was just something really calming about watching him play. No panic, crisp breakout passes, didn't caught running around his own end. He doesn't have mammoth size that I typically associate with a stay-at-home Dman so I can't project how he ends up working out for the Jets but he most certainly has the essential tools. Apparently he is high IQ (which you can see translate into smart reads on the ice) so I hope that can help him on his development curve.

Also, I was previously unaware that Eric Comrie was Mike Comrie's kid brother. Ya I know same name but Eric's bio says he's from California not Edmonton so I never made the connection. He played really well in net, especially for a 17 year old. Blades played aggressive last night and Comrie just kept repelling them. Until OT.

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10-18-2012, 11:40 AM
  #398
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The Blades top line played like a top line last night and McColgan was a big part of that. He's actually pretty strong on the puck when he wants to be. I am certainly rooting for him as he can be a really exciting player to watch. And man do we need his offense. Stransky looks really good. I forget who drafted him but they may have a steal of a pick there.

Sutter was ok and isn't some big sieve as I was thinking before watching the game. He is excellent on draws. Even when he lost he nullified the other center right away and battles in his own zone non stop. It seemed to me like he was playing a really simple game and was consciously trying not to do too much. How the heck did he score as often as he did last year?
He's a big boy, especially for a capable center, so it would be awesome for the Blades (and the Jets) if he could throw his weight around more. Took a bad tripping penalty but that was only "mistake" I saw. I think his draft position made me hopeful he had some firepower to go with his defense but the Cormier comparison by another poster seems pretty apt.

Yuen is so good as a skater. Like SOOO good. If i could skate like him I would do a bunch of laps during pre-skate to show off. Thankfully Yuen is not crazy like that. He has powerful strides and his legs look really thick. Bodes well for him. To say he is low key in the offensive zone is being mild. He supports the play just fine but is definitely the first man back. I imagine that is what Tri-City wants as Yuen is the best-skating d-man on their team. You can tell he has smarts though as he was always in position in his own end and broke up a few good passes by the Blades. There was just something really calming about watching him play. No panic, crisp breakout passes, didn't caught running around his own end. He doesn't have mammoth size that I typically associate with a stay-at-home Dman so I can't project how he ends up working out for the Jets but he most certainly has the essential tools. Apparently he is high IQ (which you can see translate into smart reads on the ice) so I hope that can help him on his development curve.

Also, I was previously unaware that Eric Comrie was Mike Comrie's kid brother. Ya I know same name but Eric's bio says he's from California not Edmonton so I never made the connection. He played really well in net, especially for a 17 year old. Blades played aggressive last night and Comrie just kept repelling them. Until OT.
I was one of the people that complained about Sutter as a 2nd round pick. The Canada / Russia invite and new, bigger role is Stoon had me hopeful though. He has shown some offensive instincts in burst. Hopefully he can get rolling. He needs a couple greasy goals to get out of this slump.

Every big bodied bugger with some scoring touch makes me dream of Lucic, but alas 3rd line grinder is far more likely.

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10-18-2012, 02:00 PM
  #399
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I was one of the people that complained about Sutter as a 2nd round pick. The Canada / Russia invite and new, bigger role is Stoon had me hopeful though. He has shown some offensive instincts in burst. Hopefully he can get rolling. He needs a couple greasy goals to get out of this slump.

Every big bodied bugger with some scoring touch makes me dream of Lucic, but alas 3rd line grinder is far more likely.
I think he has enough hockey IQ to make some offense in juniors and AHL even but not enough to be dangerous in NHL... but only time will tell

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10-18-2012, 02:12 PM
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I'm not overly concerned with Sutter because I envisioned him to be a 3rd/4th line tweener in the first place... if he surpasses my expectations, great, but I doubt he'll bust below that with his size, face-off ability and work ethic.

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