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The Official New Arena Thread: Part 3 "Hell In A Cell Match"

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09-21-2012, 04:10 PM
  #26
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True (even if I don't agree that they didn't take substantial losses at points), and sorry if I sounded hostile, I didn't intend it that way.

In addition to your last point, the success of their investment in a sporting scope was helped along quite a bit due to one-off factors that Katz won't realize with his investment unless the rink is built (or even if the rink is built). The EIG bought the team at a bottom basement price when the Oilers were basically the least attractive investment possible. Once the new CBA was ratified, along with the rising strength of the Canadian dollar, the investment became much more attractive, very quickly. Katz bought the team at a premium without hope for even an average return unless he sinks even more cash into a new rink. The EIG stepped in at the right time and got lucky, Katz is unlikely to see the same result.
Oh for sure several factors led to the increased value of the team and the inflated price that Katz paid. One of the biggest reasons was the EIG reluctance to sell and Katz making offers to purchase when the team wasn't for sale.

This is why I laugh when it comes to players being traded. If a player isn't on the block the price for said player is a lot higher than if you know said player wants out. It's a concept that HF never seems to graps when they do proposals.

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09-21-2012, 04:11 PM
  #27
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Depends where you're putting it, in Ont or Que, you'd pay just a "bit" more then $170M
What do you mean? He paid $200M for it. That's about $240M just based on inflation. Add in relocation fees and you're looking at a cool $300M, or almost double market value.

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09-21-2012, 04:18 PM
  #28
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Wow you have low expectations of humanity and life if this arena deal falls through. Have fun trying to enjoy the rest of life.
Can't really enjoy life if the Oilers move out of Edmonton. The Oilers ARE my life.

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09-21-2012, 04:21 PM
  #29
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Can't really enjoy life if the Oilers move out of Edmonton. The Oilers ARE my life.

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09-21-2012, 04:25 PM
  #30
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Does anyone else think that this deal would be looked at with a lot less hostility from the general public if it were the EIG making this exact deal rather than Katz?

Some of this likely has to do with Katz's horrible PR record on this project, but I can't imagine the uproar we have seen over this being the same if it were the EIG doing the same dealing.

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09-21-2012, 04:29 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Krut View Post
Does anyone else think that this deal would be looked at with a lot less hostility from the general public if it were the EIG making this exact deal rather than Katz?

Some of this likely has to do with Katz's horrible PR record on this project, but I can't imagine the uproar we have seen over this being the same if it were the EIG doing the same dealing.
I doubt it, EIG were known to be stingy and cheap. Although they prevented the Oilers from moving to Houston back in '98 (something I will forever be grateful for), their lack of revenue prevented us from retaining star players during most of hte late 90s and early 2000s. And besides, I doubt they would have enough funds to support a new arena.

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09-21-2012, 04:32 PM
  #32
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Can't really enjoy life if the Oilers move out of Edmonton. The Oilers ARE my life.
What about Kaylyn Kyle?

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09-21-2012, 04:34 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Krut View Post
Does anyone else think that this deal would be looked at with a lot less hostility from the general public if it were the EIG making this exact deal rather than Katz?

Some of this likely has to do with Katz's horrible PR record on this project, but I can't imagine the uproar we have seen over this being the same if it were the EIG doing the same dealing.
To some degree I think so.

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09-21-2012, 04:44 PM
  #34
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With the possibility of the Oilers leaving town, do you guys really find it easy to move on? Think about it...the Oilers and Edmonton are synonymous. Edmonton won't survive without the Oilers, I can assure you that. The Oilers (and sports for that matter) provides the transcending moment away from the turmoils of real life and for Edmonton to lose that will be a devastating blow to the city and the moral of its citizens. That is why I am concerned for Edmonton and this whole arena dispute. I may be a Torontonian now, but my heart is always in Edmonton and I can never root for an Oilers team in Seattle, Hamilton, Quebec, or anywhere else. I am an EDMONTON Oilers fan. So my message to Katz and city council is get your **** together.

Anyways, thanks for those comments. You guys just don't know what its gonna feel like when you see the Oilers leave town. If you can move on from it like that, then I say good for you. Others who deeply love the team for who they are and where they come from won't find it hard to move on from. Maybe you guys can talk to some Winnipeggers and ask how they felt from 96 to 2011.

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09-21-2012, 04:45 PM
  #35
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I don't want to sound paranoid and all, but this whole arena dispute thus far is making me feel very uneasy and making me question the future of the Oilers here in Edmonton. I hope we don't get to that.

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09-21-2012, 04:46 PM
  #36
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With the possibility of the Oilers leaving town, do you guys really find it easy to move on? Think about it...the Oilers and Edmonton are synonymous. Edmonton won't survive without the Oilers, I can assure you that. The Oilers (and sports for that matter) provides the transcending moment away from the turmoils of real life and for Edmonton to lose that will be a devastating blow to the city and the moral of its citizens. That is why I am concerned for Edmonton and this whole arena dispute. I may be a Torontonian now, but my heart is always in Edmonton and I can never root for an Oilers team in Seattle, Hamilton, Quebec, or anywhere else. I am an EDMONTON Oilers fan. So my message to Katz and city council is get your **** together.

Anyways, thanks for those comments. You guys just don't know what its gonna feel like when you see the Oilers leave town. If you can move on from it like that, then I say good for you. Others who deeply love the team for who they are and where they come from won't find it hard to move on from. Maybe you guys can talk to some Winnipeggers and ask how they felt from 96 to 2011.
I haven't see anywhere that said if Katz didn't get the perfect deal that he would move the Oilers. Or did I miss something?

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09-21-2012, 04:47 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Krut View Post
Does anyone else think that this deal would be looked at with a lot less hostility from the general public if it were the EIG making this exact deal rather than Katz?

Some of this likely has to do with Katz's horrible PR record on this project, but I can't imagine the uproar we have seen over this being the same if it were the EIG doing the same dealing.
People seem to hate private billionaires I guess.

"WE NEED ANSWERS AS TO WHY HE ISN'T UPDATING US ON BEING A MILLIONAIRE. HE'S UP TO NO GOOD HE DRINKS HIS OWN PEE WHILE LOCKED IN HIS ROOM HE LIVES IN VANCOUVER FOR HALF THE YEAR HE BOUGHT THE TEAM TO MOVE THEM BUT NOW ITS ABSURD TO THINK HE'D MOVE THEM RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE"

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09-21-2012, 04:47 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
With the possibility of the Oilers leaving town, do you guys really find it easy to move on? Think about it...the Oilers and Edmonton are synonymous. Edmonton won't survive without the Oilers, I can assure you that. The Oilers (and sports for that matter) provides the transcending moment away from the turmoils of real life and for Edmonton to lose that will be a devastating blow to the city and the moral of its citizens. That is why I am concerned for Edmonton and this whole arena dispute. I may be a Torontonian now, but my heart is always in Edmonton and I can never root for an Oilers team in Seattle, Hamilton, Quebec, or anywhere else. I am an EDMONTON Oilers fan. So my message to Katz and city council is get your **** together.

Anyways, thanks for those comments. You guys just don't know what its gonna feel like when you see the Oilers leave town. If you can move on from it like that, then I say good for you. Others who deeply love the team for who they are and where they come from won't find it hard to move on from. Maybe you guys can talk to some Winnipeggers and ask how they felt from 96 to 2011.
LOL there is much more to life than professional sports. Defintiely a big loss for the city but whatever.

On top of all that these are just empty threats, no point in peeing your pants yet about them leaving.

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09-21-2012, 04:49 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by OilerNut View Post
I haven't see anywhere that said if Katz didn't get the perfect deal that he would move the Oilers. Or did I miss something?
I don't think he said directly, but he mentioned if the deal falls through that "all bets are off".

We can speculate what he meant by "all bets are off".

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09-21-2012, 04:54 PM
  #40
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I don't think he said directly, but he mentioned if the deal falls through that "all bets are off".

We can speculate what he meant by "all bets are off".
So are we suppose to just constant kiss his ass and give him everything he ever asks for just in case it might upset him?

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09-21-2012, 04:59 PM
  #41
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So are we suppose to just constant kiss his ass and give him everything he ever asks for just in case it might upset him?
I don't know about kissing his behind, but I want this deal to go through. Enough with stalling the process. The citizens of Edmonton need to shed this small hicktown mentality for once and start opening up to bigger and more ambitious projects! Realize the benefits this arena is gonna have on the downtown core. Attracting businesses and young professional into the core of the city.

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09-21-2012, 05:06 PM
  #42
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Katz does own the team. It is perfectly within his rights to move it.

I still think there's a better compromise to be found though. There's too much brinksmanship being thrown around.

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09-21-2012, 05:43 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
He'd probably take a bath on the sale. Why would anyone pay $250M for the Oilers when the going rate for franchises is about $170M?
How about this:

Katz keeps his $100 million for the arena, sells the team for $150 million (we all know he'd get way, way, way more than that) and pushes away from the table.



And the point still stands. Nobody has ever, once, been able to articulate any kind of logical or rational hypthetical scenario where the city of Edmonton gets even close to this kind of a deal with anybody other than Katz.

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09-21-2012, 05:45 PM
  #44
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Katz is a multi BILLIONAIRE.. Tax payers for the most part are struggling to get by(at least 80 percent of us). Why is it on the tax payer to put up a 500 million dollar arena so that KATZ can benefit financially from it? If Katz wants some tax payer money then the tax payer should share in the profits that the arena will generate.

I'm sick of slime ball billionaires asking for handouts from the same people that have MADE THEM RICH. Show the little people some respect Katz.

Okay, rant over lol

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09-21-2012, 05:50 PM
  #45
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Katz can pay for it out of his massively overstuffed pockets, and Edmonton can amalgamate that part of St Albert.
Im not sure people understand how money works. Would you ever put 50% of your life into a single project or investment, probably not.

Katz is worth 1-1.4ish billion so putting 475 million into an arena is like putting half of his lifes work into it.

If I earn 100 grand a year no way to I put 50 grand into the stock market or real estate. I put an amount in that even if its a huge failure wont ruin my finances.

People expecting Katz to just drop 475 million in hiw own money are dreaming

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09-21-2012, 05:52 PM
  #46
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Katz is a multi BILLIONAIRE.. Tax payers for the most part are struggling to get by(at least 80 percent of us). Why is it on the tax payer to put up a 500 million dollar arena so that KATZ can benefit financially from it? If Katz wants some tax payer money then the tax payer should share in the profits that the arena will generate.

I'm sick of slime ball billionaires asking for handouts from the same people that have MADE THEM RICH. Show the little people some respect Katz.

Okay, rant over lol
Are you ****ing kidding? Wow, just wow. Yes Daryl Katz, the greedy devil incarnate.

Look, I get it a bit, but he's not Lyle Lanley and the arena isn't a Monorail for **** sakes.

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09-21-2012, 05:54 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by oilman9482 View Post
Katz is a multi BILLIONAIRE.. Tax payers for the most part are struggling to get by(at least 80 percent of us). Why is it on the tax payer to put up a 500 million dollar arena so that KATZ can benefit financially from it? If Katz wants some tax payer money then the tax payer should share in the profits that the arena will generate.

I'm sick of slime ball billionaires asking for handouts from the same people that have MADE THEM RICH. Show the little people some respect Katz.

Okay, rant over lol
This just in: oilman9482 makes Katz rich.

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09-21-2012, 05:55 PM
  #48
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Katz is worth 1-1.4ish billion so putting 475 million into an arena is like putting half of his lifes work into it.

Site your source. I think he has much more than 1.4 billion. Also, if the arena is such a bad investment then why should the tax payer invest so much money into it? I think we all know it is a good investment and will generate A LOT of money for mr. Katz. He just wants a free ride so there is NO RISK for him whatsoever.

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09-21-2012, 05:56 PM
  #49
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Yeah...not just the big projects neither. I witnessed this scenario first hand starting a couple of years ago. The city was doing a stretch of 167th avenue to make turning lanes, lights, easier access to new buildings etc.

Took em 2 or so years to get the road done. The next summer, as I drove to use the glorious road they re - did, it was closed again. And they were ripping it out. WTF I says to myself. Another 2 summers of closures for that section, so it took them about 5 years to put it in, tear it out, and put it in again.

I'm willing to wager that almost everyone on this board has a similar story.
Nice open fields behind my house. Big stretches of field, lots of dog walking.

The city decided to build an asphalt path cutting through the middle of it complete with street lights and everything. The problem was the path came out in the middle of the road at a blind right curve in the road.

Even still the city built those curbed ramps on each side of the road. They were then confused when pedestrians started crossing there so they put up no crossing signs. That didnt work because who is gonna walk 500 feet to the side when they can use this city made path. So now they added baricades preventing people prom crossing.

And the worst part is people barely use it, all the dog walkers still just use the grass

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09-21-2012, 05:57 PM
  #50
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Katz is worth 1-1.4ish billion so putting 475 million into an arena is like putting half of his lifes work into it.

Site your source. I think he has much more than 1.4 billion. Also, if the arena is such a bad investment then why should the tax payer invest so much money into it? I think we all know it is a good investment and will generate A LOT of money for mr. Katz. He just wants a free ride so there is NO RISK for him whatsoever.
It doesn't matter what you think, you're mind it made up regardless of any actual facts.

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