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Old
09-26-2012, 10:05 PM
  #151
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
Seriously? Edler would be a bottom pairing dman in Columbus???

This is a guy who was 7th in league scoring among dmen last year... was the highest icetime dman on one of the top teams in the league - a team that finished 4th in GAA and 4th on the PP - which Edler is the top PP dman on... it all added up to a 15th place finish in Norris voting - a vote no Jackets defender got last year (who was the last Jackets defender to get any Norris votes?).

How does he go from being the #1 dman on one of the top teams in the league, to a bottom pairing guy on the worst team in the league, the 3rd worst defensive team in the league and the 7th worst PP team in the league?
Because he's not the type who plays major minutes against top opposition so the Tyutin-Nikitin pairing wouldn't be touched (that's their primary duty and why they stay together). So he'd be competing with JMFJ for first-in-everyone's-hearts-but-actually-second-on-the-ice, and JMFJ has the advantages of being 1) incumbent and 2) having already demonstrated badass capabilities alongside Wisniewski. (And when I say "badass capabilities" I mean "a +15 (or higher) combined pairing, scoring at a 55 points per season pace, playing 30 minutes a night.")

That said, on further reflection, he does stand a good chance of beating out JMFJ (that performance is probably unsustainable). Doesn't make it any less wasteful tho.

It would also do well to keep in mind that the Jackets' blueline woes had quite a lot more to do with ridiculous numbers of injuries (no Blue Jacket blueliner played more than 67 games, and the only quality one who got above 60 was Tyutin) and Steve Mason.

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Old
09-26-2012, 10:12 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Because he's not the type who plays major minutes against top opposition so the Tyutin-Nikitin pairing wouldn't be touched (that's their primary duty and why they stay together). So he'd be competing with JMFJ for first-in-everyone's-hearts-but-actually-second-on-the-ice, and JMFJ has the advantages of being 1) incumbent and 2) having already demonstrated badass capabilities alongside Wisniewski. (And when I say "badass capabilities" I mean "a +15 (or higher) combined pairing, scoring at a 55 points per season pace, playing 30 minutes a night.")

That said, on further reflection, he does stand a good chance of beating out JMFJ (that performance is probably unsustainable). Doesn't make it any less wasteful tho.

It would also do well to keep in mind that the Jackets' blueline woes had quite a lot more to do with ridiculous numbers of injuries (no Blue Jacket blueliner played more than 67 games, and the only quality one who got above 60 was Tyutin) and Steve Mason.
This is just a flat out terrible analysis. Edler would definitely be on your top unit against the top opposition. You really think he doesn't bump one of Tyutin-Nikitin? Please man.

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Old
09-26-2012, 10:30 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
How many games in Keith Ballard's career has he been a healthy scratch? 10?

Compare that to the number of games he's been more than a bottom pairing defenseman (hundreds) and it makes your comments seem pretty ridiculous.

I would say Keith Ballard has improved in his time in Vancouver after struggling really badly for over a year, right now I think there are a few teams he could comfortable man the second pairing for. He's still nowhere near outplaying Dan Hamhuis or Alex Edler but that doesn't make a guy a bottom pairing defenseman - there are probably fewer than 40 defensemen who would outplay both of those players all season long.


A spurned FLA fan and a known CGY fan going on about the weaknesses of Ballard in a Lu centric thread? Hmmmm...


People saw Ballard go from the top pair in PHX and the top pair in FLA to the bottom pair in VAN to surmise that this reflects more on Ballard than it does his new, more competitive environment? Yeah that makes complete sense. After all, are not all environments created equal?



The Canucks are 2.4m under the last cap. With nothing to spend money on. Why not keep a former top pairing Dman in your bottom pairing? It's a luxury they can afford. Why not utilize it?




It really doesn't matter what others have to say about it. I'm sure they were cheering him on in FLA and PHX, because then it's ok to support players when they play for your team.

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09-26-2012, 10:31 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Because he's not the type who plays major minutes against top opposition so the Tyutin-Nikitin pairing wouldn't be touched (that's their primary duty and why they stay together). So he'd be competing with JMFJ for first-in-everyone's-hearts-but-actually-second-on-the-ice, and JMFJ has the advantages of being 1) incumbent and 2) having already demonstrated badass capabilities alongside Wisniewski. (And when I say "badass capabilities" I mean "a +15 (or higher) combined pairing, scoring at a 55 points per season pace, playing 30 minutes a night.")

That said, on further reflection, he does stand a good chance of beating out JMFJ (that performance is probably unsustainable). Doesn't make it any less wasteful tho.

It would also do well to keep in mind that the Jackets' blueline woes had quite a lot more to do with ridiculous numbers of injuries (no Blue Jacket blueliner played more than 67 games, and the only quality one who got above 60 was Tyutin) and Steve Mason.
Buddy, that's brutal. Edler plays quite a few minutes against other teams top forwards, and while he isn't a defensive rock, he is certainly above average defensively. He would certainly be your best defenseman and would lead all CBJ defensemen in ice time. To think otherwise is very silly.

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09-26-2012, 11:17 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
This is just a flat out terrible analysis. Edler would definitely be on your top unit against the top opposition. You really think he doesn't bump one of Tyutin-Nikitin? Please man.
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Buddy, that's brutal. Edler plays quite a few minutes against other teams top forwards, and while he isn't a defensive rock, he is certainly above average defensively. He would certainly be your best defenseman and would lead all CBJ defensemen in ice time. To think otherwise is very silly.
I think the main point is that Edler would not address a need for the BJs - even if he is better than both JJ and JW and supplants one of them on that pairing, the team still has a hugely valuable asset on their third pairing.. something some teams can afford but the BJs cannot given they arguably don't have a single first line calibre forward.

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09-27-2012, 12:18 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
This is just a flat out terrible analysis. Edler would definitely be on your top unit against the top opposition. You really think he doesn't bump one of Tyutin-Nikitin? Please man.
Yes.

He may be a better offensive producer than those two, but that's why we have JMFJ-Wisniewski.

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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Buddy, that's brutal. Edler plays quite a few minutes against other teams top forwards, and while he isn't a defensive rock, he is certainly above average defensively. He would certainly be your best defenseman and would lead all CBJ defensemen in ice time. To think otherwise is very silly.
Or it demonstrates that folks don't actually know as much about the CBJ defense as they like to think they do. To really know just how thoroughly devastated we were by injuries on the blueline, you'd have to have followed game-to-game and see who was out when, but I'll try and give a brief primer:

Martinek went down just before Wisniewski came back from the suspension. We traded for Nikitin (who was a g-dsend) and Wisniewski was abruptly injured. When he came back, Methot was down. When Nikitin was first injured we got desperate enough to sign Brett Lebda for emergency depth - and then he injured himself in practice the very next day. Then Methot's jaw was broken and he was done for the year. Then, finally, when we brought in JMFJ, Wisniewski was still injured once again... and before he came back, Tyutin finally was injured and missed the rest of the season.

We ultimately had six top-4 defensemen (Tyutin, Nikitin, Wisniewski, Methot, Martinek, JMFJ, and some folks thought Clitsome could have handled that job but he frankly didn't), and yet never iced more than three together in any given game. And the few quality guys we had, we were obliged to overplay, because thanks to a similar series of injuries in Springfield our callups were limited to guys who weren't ready and guys who couldn't handle second-pairing duty in the AHL - and yet we had to play them anyways.

A Vancouver equivalent would be an injury pattern that obliges you to have your top-3 defensemen in games played throughout the year as Kevin Connauton, Kevin Bieksa (and you spend all your days thanking G-d for that small favor, until he misses the last quarter of the season - and he still ends up leading the team in total ice time despite that!), and Andrew Alberts having a bad year (as in bad-for-Andrew-Alberts-bad). In that order. Oh, and you're back to Cloutier-Auld in net.

So, do you think your blueline results might look maybe just a tad poor-quality under such a scenario? Maybe?

For sure and for certain, Edler would have been the #1 defenseman on the Blue Jackets last season. But we're not icing the same blueline this coming season that we did then. It would be logistically impossible.

I don't claim that Edler is somehow bad, or "second-pairing at best", or any of the other myriad idiotic claims that have been made about him by haters. But he wouldn't be the #1 over here any more than he is over there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
I think the main point is that Edler would not address a need for the BJs - even if he is better than both JJ and JW and supplants one of them on that pairing, the team still has a hugely valuable asset on their third pairing.. something some teams can afford but the BJs cannot given they arguably don't have a single first line calibre forward.
That would be the primary point, yes.

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09-27-2012, 12:23 AM
  #157
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Cory Schneider + Mason Raymond for Ryan Murray.

A strong maybe from the Jacket's area of strength(defense, with Nikitin-Tyutin, as well as JJ, Wiz, and several prospects in the system) for a strong maybe for their area of weakness, as well as some scoring depth.

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09-27-2012, 12:32 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Yes.

He may be a better offensive producer than those two, but that's why we have JMFJ-Wisniewski.



Or it demonstrates that folks don't actually know as much about the CBJ defense as they like to think they do. To really know just how thoroughly devastated we were by injuries on the blueline, you'd have to have followed game-to-game and see who was out when, but I'll try and give a brief primer:

Martinek went down just before Wisniewski came back from the suspension. We traded for Nikitin (who was a g-dsend) and Wisniewski was abruptly injured. When he came back, Methot was down. When Nikitin was first injured we got desperate enough to sign Brett Lebda for emergency depth - and then he injured himself in practice the very next day. Then Methot's jaw was broken and he was done for the year. Then, finally, when we brought in JMFJ, Wisniewski was still injured once again... and before he came back, Tyutin finally was injured and missed the rest of the season.

We ultimately had six top-4 defensemen (Tyutin, Nikitin, Wisniewski, Methot, Martinek, JMFJ, and some folks thought Clitsome could have handled that job but he frankly didn't), and yet never iced more than three together in any given game. And the few quality guys we had, we were obliged to overplay, because thanks to a similar series of injuries in Springfield our callups were limited to guys who weren't ready and guys who couldn't handle second-pairing duty in the AHL - and yet we had to play them anyways.

A Vancouver equivalent would be an injury pattern that obliges you to have your top-3 defensemen in games played throughout the year as Kevin Connauton, Kevin Bieksa (and you spend all your days thanking G-d for that small favor, until he misses the last quarter of the season - and he still ends up leading the team in total ice time despite that!), and Andrew Alberts having a bad year (as in bad-for-Andrew-Alberts-bad). In that order. Oh, and you're back to Cloutier-Auld in net.

So, do you think your blueline results might look maybe just a tad poor-quality under such a scenario? Maybe?

For sure and for certain, Edler would have been the #1 defenseman on the Blue Jackets last season. But we're not icing the same blueline this coming season that we did then. It would be logistically impossible.

I don't claim that Edler is somehow bad, or "second-pairing at best", or any of the other myriad idiotic claims that have been made about him by haters. But he wouldn't be the #1 over here any more than he is over there.



That would be the primary point, yes.
I never once said your defense was bad, in fact in this very thread I've stated that the CBJ blue line is vastly underrated. Even still, Edler is better than all of your defenders on paper. Therefore, barring a total lack of chemistry, he should have a spot on your top pairing. That's all I'm saying.

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09-27-2012, 12:57 AM
  #159
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Just as I thought I had seen it all on these boards. Now I see that Edler would be on the Jackets bottom pairing. I am simply at a loss for words. I don't wish to be rude but if anyone thinks Edler would be bottom pairing on any team they simply lack any knowledge about the game at all. This is beyond homerism. There are no words to match this level of ignorance.

How do the Canucks keep winning with all these ****** players?

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09-27-2012, 01:03 AM
  #160
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Apparently your team feels the same way because he's scratched more often then not.
I refuse to accept that Ballard is an overpaid #6 d-man. He was very effective before coming to Vancouver. I'm convinced that his skills don't convert well in Vancouver's system.

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09-27-2012, 01:04 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Cory Schneider + Mason Raymond for Ryan Murray.

A strong maybe from the Jacket's area of strength(defense, with Nikitin-Tyutin, as well as JJ, Wiz, and several prospects in the system) for a strong maybe for their area of weakness, as well as some scoring depth.
I think you'd have to take out Raymond and throw in something much better. I really can't figure out what it would be, though.

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09-27-2012, 01:06 AM
  #162
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I refuse to accept that Ballard is an overpaid #6 d-man. He was very effective before coming to Vancouver. I'm convinced that his skills don't convert well in Vancouver's system.
Buddy, get lost. That sounds downright logical. Delete your HF account now, that sentiment has no merit here.

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09-27-2012, 01:08 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by settinguptheplay View Post
Just as I thought I had seen it all on these boards. Now I see that Edler would be on the Jackets bottom pairing. I am simply at a loss for words. I don't wish to be rude but if anyone thinks Edler would be bottom pairing on any team they simply lack any knowledge about the game at all. This is beyond homerism. There
are no words to match this level of ignorance.

How do the Canucks keep winning with all these ****** players?
This. Visqui, I've always had a ton of respect for you as a poster, but your last few posts scream ignorance.... Edler on the Jackets bottom pairing made me

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09-27-2012, 01:11 AM
  #164
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I think you'd have to take out Raymond and throw in something much better. I really can't figure out what it would be, though.
Maybe add a decent forward prospect like Rodin? Apparently the Jackets' goal is to run 4 second lines, so I think Raymond could become a nice part of that, Raymond's usually good for 20-20, with 1st PP time he might get more, and he's also good at the PK.

Schneider's also more proven at the NHL level then Murray, but w/e.

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09-27-2012, 01:11 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I never once said your defense was bad, in fact in this very thread I've stated that the CBJ blue line is vastly underrated. Even still, Edler is better than all of your defenders on paper. Therefore, barring a total lack of chemistry, he should have a spot on your top pairing. That's all I'm saying.
That's probably fair, although I still think Tyutin-Nikitin would get the bulk of the minutes. For my part, I took a "'worst' case scenario result" and stated it as though it were the most likely, and now I'm paying for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by settinguptheplay View Post
Just as I thought I had seen it all on these boards. Now I see that Edler would be on the Jackets bottom pairing. I am simply at a loss for words. I don't wish to be rude but if anyone thinks Edler would be bottom pairing on any team they simply lack any knowledge about the game at all. This is beyond homerism. There are no words to match this level of ignorance.

How do the Canucks keep winning with all these ****** players?
It's not impossible that that's where he'd play. I just rather idiotically suggested it as being more likely than it actually is. I blame stress from the lockout.

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09-27-2012, 02:14 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I never once said your defense was bad, in fact in this very thread I've stated that the CBJ blue line is vastly underrated. Even still, Edler is better than all of your defenders on paper. Therefore, barring a total lack of chemistry, he should have a spot on your top pairing. That's all I'm saying.
It's funny that Nikitin-Tyutin beat Edler "on paper" on the worst team then.


If Edler did somehow found his way here, he'd be ahead of JMFJ and especially Wisniewski in my book, but no way does he bump either Niki or Fedor out after the work they were able to do last season

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09-27-2012, 02:16 AM
  #167
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That's probably fair, although I still think Tyutin-Nikitin would get the bulk of the minutes. For my part, I took a "'worst' case scenario result" and stated it as though it were the most likely, and now I'm paying for it.



It's not impossible that that's where he'd play. I just rather idiotically suggested it as being more likely than it actually is. I blame stress from the lockout.
Its unfortunate how CBJ has never been good even after all the great draft picks they have received. One might suggest that it is bad luck, but I am starting to think that if management in CBJ judges talent like you, CBJ's story starts to sound more like a self fulfilling prophecy. In all seriousness I get you are trying to get behind your team and that is great. In fact it is too bad there aren't more fans in CBJ like you, because I think it would help the team. Though more research should be in order for you, and management if they think Tyutin - Nikitin are a suitable top pairing for a playoff team. If you think Edler cannot displace either then as I said there are serious flaws in your ideology.

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09-27-2012, 02:41 AM
  #168
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Its unfortunate how CBJ has never been good even after all the great draft picks they have received. One might suggest that it is bad luck, but I am starting to think that if management in CBJ judges talent like you, CBJ's story starts to sound more like a self fulfilling prophecy. In all seriousness I get you are trying to get behind your team and that is great. In fact it is too bad there aren't more fans in CBJ like you, because I think it would help the team. Though more research should be in order for you, and management if they think Tyutin - Nikitin are a suitable top pairing for a playoff team. If you think Edler cannot displace either then as I said there are serious flaws in your ideology.



Well, in fairness, VAN fans often refer to Hamhuis-Bieksa as their "top pairing". Mostly because they get the lion's share of the defensive duties.



However, Edler gets the most TOI. So perhaps Viqsi is referring to a similar situation?

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09-27-2012, 02:46 AM
  #169
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Bobrovsky has had two seasons as a minor backup goalie on a team that has not relied on having anything but a mediocure goal tending system. Not only are Cory or Luongo better than Bobrovsky, they are in the elite first string goalie class while Bobrovsky at best is still an average NHL backup goalie.

As for Columbus addressing their goal tending problems through the draft, have you any idea how many years it takes to develop a goalie just drafted until, if successful, he could be considered even an average first string goalie in the NHL? Cory Schneider was a first round draft pick, so was considered to have a pretty good chance to make it compared to most and Cory is now just entering his 9th year of development and his first year as a number 1 goalie.
You realize Bobrovsky was The Flyers starter in 10-11 he had 54 GP/28W with a .915 SV%. Those a pretty good stats for a rookie playing his first season in NA. Just wanted to make that clear if it hasn't been already.

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09-27-2012, 04:58 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Yes.

He may be a better offensive producer than those two, but that's why we have JMFJ-Wisniewski.



Or it demonstrates that folks don't actually know as much about the CBJ defense as they like to think they do. To really know just how thoroughly devastated we were by injuries on the blueline, you'd have to have followed game-to-game and see who was out when, but I'll try and give a brief primer:

Martinek went down just before Wisniewski came back from the suspension. We traded for Nikitin (who was a g-dsend) and Wisniewski was abruptly injured. When he came back, Methot was down. When Nikitin was first injured we got desperate enough to sign Brett Lebda for emergency depth - and then he injured himself in practice the very next day. Then Methot's jaw was broken and he was done for the year. Then, finally, when we brought in JMFJ, Wisniewski was still injured once again... and before he came back, Tyutin finally was injured and missed the rest of the season.

We ultimately had six top-4 defensemen (Tyutin, Nikitin, Wisniewski, Methot, Martinek, JMFJ, and some folks thought Clitsome could have handled that job but he frankly didn't), and yet never iced more than three together in any given game. And the few quality guys we had, we were obliged to overplay, because thanks to a similar series of injuries in Springfield our callups were limited to guys who weren't ready and guys who couldn't handle second-pairing duty in the AHL - and yet we had to play them anyways.

A Vancouver equivalent would be an injury pattern that obliges you to have your top-3 defensemen in games played throughout the year as Kevin Connauton, Kevin Bieksa (and you spend all your days thanking G-d for that small favor, until he misses the last quarter of the season - and he still ends up leading the team in total ice time despite that!), and Andrew Alberts having a bad year (as in bad-for-Andrew-Alberts-bad). In that order. Oh, and you're back to Cloutier-Auld in net.

So, do you think your blueline results might look maybe just a tad poor-quality under such a scenario? Maybe?

For sure and for certain, Edler would have been the #1 defenseman on the Blue Jackets last season. But we're not icing the same blueline this coming season that we did then. It would be logistically impossible.

I don't claim that Edler is somehow bad, or "second-pairing at best", or any of the other myriad idiotic claims that have been made about him by haters. But he wouldn't be the #1 over here any more than he is over there.



That would be the primary point, yes.

Injuries or not, Edler would be your best defense-man and would receive the most minutes on your blue-line next season. If he didn't, I would seriously question the BJ coaching staff.

I totally agree he wouldn't be a good fit in Columbus, and I also agree Columbus' blue-line is a lot more solid than given credit for. I never refuted that.

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09-27-2012, 08:18 AM
  #171
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I refuse to accept that Ballard is an overpaid #6 d-man. He was very effective before coming to Vancouver. I'm convinced that his skills don't convert well in Vancouver's system.
Bouwmeester was more effective in Florida too. Does that mean he retains his value too ? Bad play aside, Ballard has also had hip surgery, a sprained mcl, a back injury, and two concussions since leaving Florida.

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09-27-2012, 10:47 AM
  #172
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That's probably fair, although I still think Tyutin-Nikitin would get the bulk of the minutes. For my part, I took a "'worst' case scenario result" and stated it as though it were the most likely, and now I'm paying for it.



It's not impossible that that's where he'd play. I just rather idiotically suggested it as being more likely than it actually is. I blame stress from the lockout.
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Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
It's funny that Nikitin-Tyutin beat Edler "on paper" on the worst team then.


If Edler did somehow found his way here, he'd be ahead of JMFJ and especially Wisniewski in my book, but no way does he bump either Niki or Fedor out after the work they were able to do last season
For the Canucks, Edler was 3rd in both ES TOI and SH TOI, but he was 1st in overall TOI. I would imagine it would likely be the same in Columbus. If you have a solid shutdown pairing with proven chemistry like we do in Vancouver (Hamhuis-Bieksa) then I doubt the coaching staff would disrupt that, but due to Edler's versatility and ability to play in ALL situations he'd likely rack up more ice time than any defender on the CBJ blueline. Does that make him your "#1" or "on your top pairing", that's up to you how you want to look at it. In Vancouver we don't have a top pairing, we have two pairings that play fairly equivalent time but in different situations. Edler is still our best defenseman though, and he leads all of our defensemen in ice time.

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09-27-2012, 11:55 AM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Well, in fairness, VAN fans often refer to Hamhuis-Bieksa as their "top pairing". Mostly because they get the lion's share of the defensive duties.

However, Edler gets the most TOI. So perhaps Viqsi is referring to a similar situation?
Pretty close. It's hard to go by "most TOI" compared to last year simply because of our blueline moonlighting as a hospital ward. But JMFJ is extremely likely to take such a role.

So, basically, it'd be Edler versus JMFJ, and whoever "loses" ends up on the bottom pairing. Which would scare the division even more than they already should be, but is otherwise not particularly helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Injuries or not, Edler would be your best defense-man and would receive the most minutes on your blue-line next season. If he didn't, I would seriously question the BJ coaching staff.
I think it would be more productive, before questioning the coaches, to first examine how JMFJ-Wisniewski do in such a hypothetical situation. Given how effective they were together last year, it's entirely possible that they could win out on sheer merit. It's also worth noting that Edler/JMFJ/"#1" has to play with somebody, and Wizniewski is the most likely candidate... and he and JMFJ have been doing the Richards-Carter BFF thing ever since JMFJ got here. So JMFJ's got his advantages in the competition.

That said, I concede that Edler is far more proven at that particular role than JMFJ has been so far, by virtue of a simple existence proof: he's played that exact same role for several years and been pretty damn good at it. (And somehow I let that slip my mind at the time. Grar.)

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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
For the Canucks, Edler was 3rd in both ES TOI and SH TOI, but he was 1st in overall TOI. I would imagine it would likely be the same in Columbus. If you have a solid shutdown pairing with proven chemistry like we do in Vancouver (Hamhuis-Bieksa) then I doubt the coaching staff would disrupt that, but due to Edler's versatility and ability to play in ALL situations he'd likely rack up more ice time than any defender on the CBJ blueline. Does that make him your "#1" or "on your top pairing", that's up to you how you want to look at it. In Vancouver we don't have a top pairing, we have two pairings that play fairly equivalent time but in different situations. Edler is still our best defenseman though, and he leads all of our defensemen in ice time.
Technically, Tyutin lead us in TOI last year. That was, however, undoubtedly influenced by the fact that he was one of the only quality defensemen we had in games. 27-28 minutes a night was becoming "just another day at the office" for the poor guy. What the plan will be this year is hard to say.

Contrary to my earlier assertion, though, apparently there were two brief periods during which four top-4 guys played together, and one of those was just after the trade deadline. (The other - Tyutin-Nikitin, Wisniewski-Methot - saw us with a winning record until we decided to give Sanford a rest and put Mase back in. Oops. It also saw everyone average over 25 minutes TOI except Methot, who was just over 20.)

Anyways. With our current four, during that brief period (in which JMFJ had just joined the team), the TOI figures looked like this:
Game 62: Nikitin (25:29), Tyutin (23:53), JMFJ (23:29), Wiz (21:41).
Game 63: Nikitin (24:11), Tyutin (24:07), JMFJ (22:59), Wiz (20:42)
Game 64: Nikitin (24:35), Tyutin (23:05), Wiz (22:44), JMFJ (22:24)
Game 65: Tyutin (26:37), Nikitin (24:42), JMFJ (22:20), Wiz (20:48)
Game 66: JMFJ (27:32), Wiz (25:47), Tyutin (20:19), Nikitin (10:49 - brief injury scare, IIRC, but he came back to play 22 minutes the next game)
Tyutin was injured sometime late in Game 66 and did not return for the rest of the year. Thereafter we leaned heavily on JMFJ and Nikitin - to the degree that in five out of 16 games JMFJ played 30 minutes or more, and he was also past the 29 minute mark three times thereafter.

So, yeah, when they were all together Nikitin and Tyutin were far and away our TOI leaders, but JMFJ was new to the team. And when Tyutin bowed out from injury, JMFJ became our new TOI leader instead of Nikitin. There's not much on which to draw conclusions, but, well, it's data.

The bottom pairing through that stretch, by the way, was Moore-Lebda. Aaron Johnson also played a few minutes in the latter two games.

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09-27-2012, 12:47 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Yes, as compared to his upside. Hamilton doesn't get discussed as being tradable for #1 defenseman packages. You don't see him being available only for packages like Brayden Schenn, Sean Couturier, and a few 1sts.

Compare and contrast with Schneider offers, in which frequently the cost of a full-time proven starter is what is insisted upon. That makes sense for Vancouver (as that's likely to be his role in the near future over there), but it's silly for everybody else.
Who gives a **** what people around here think someone is worth and how they place players in proposals! Are you serious? You think this matters one iota in the real world?

News flash for posters around here: You don't know jack **** about the value of players in real life and it's not your fault. How often are the majority of posters around here dead wrong? The vast majority of the time.

Dougie Hamilton's value is not tarnished in any way by not having played in the NHL yet and that's because NHL teams have "scouts" and "experience" and "forsight" and they know Hamilton is as good as D prospects get.

I gaurantee you if Boston is asking someone about a top pairing defenceman, they're asking for Hamilton in return.

And people ask for a starter's return for Schneider (again, who gives a ****) because the Canucks organization, Mike Gillis, most hockey media types, Alain Vigneault and most Canucks fans and scouts consider him a number one. Is it more logical to beleive them? Of fans on a message board that don't know anything and pump out absurd 'proposals' all day?

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09-27-2012, 12:48 PM
  #175
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Anyone that puts Alex Edler on Columbus' bottom pairing immediately loses all credibility. Immediately...

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