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Father of Danish hockey learned hockey in Latvia.

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Old
10-12-2014, 07:35 AM
  #1
Justinov
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Father of Danish hockey learned hockey in Latvia.

In 2005 Jørgen Hviid was inducted into the IIHF Hall of Fame (and in 2014 into the Danish Icehockey Hall of Fame) as the “builder“ of Danish ice hockey. What is interesting is that he got his hockey upbringing in Riga.

From IIHF:
Hviid, Jorgen (DEN)
Born September 1, 1916 in Moscow, Russia. Jorgen Hviid was a well rounded athlete but it was his skating abilities in which he really excelled. He started to play ice hockey in the 1931 – 32 season, and became a Latvian Champion with the Unions club in 1932 and 1933. He and his family returned to Denmark in 1934 and would prove to have a significant impact on the development of Danish ice hockey during the latter part of the 1930's and into the next decade. He and his brothers helped make the Kjobenhavns SF club a powerhouse within Denmark, becoming a Danish champion on two occasions – 1956 and 1961. Hviid continued that same success later on during the 1960?s, this time as coach of that same team from Copenhagen, leading the club to several national titles during his reign.
Hviid's international playing career was historic in that while representing his country at the 1949 IIHF World Championship in Stockholm, he not only recorded Denmark's first-ever goal in the event, he went on to tally all four of his teams' four tournament goals, clearly having established himself as the most superior player on his side. His impact was still be felt when a generation later, his son Jesper starred in the Danish ice hockey scene during the 1970's. Hviid's commitment to the game landed him a position as a member of the Danish Ice Hockey Union from 1982 – 1988. For these and many more reasons, it is easy to see why Hviid has been dubbed the 'Father of Danish Ice Hockey'.


Apparently the Hviid family had business in Russia as many Danes had at this time, but fled to Riga in 1921.
He started playing icehockey in Riga for Unions Riga already as 15 years old in 1931. Seasons 1931-32 and 1932-33 he became Latvian Champion, before his family moved back to Denmark in 1934. He probably played under the name “Jorgens Hvids“ for Unions Riga.

He then started ice hockey in the club KSF (Copenhagen Skating Union - that also included all other skating disciplines) in 1938.
During the warmer period of the 30's until 40-41 it was impossible to do any skating in Denmark because of warm winters, whereas Speed Skating and Bandy had been quite popular in the 1890-1920's.
[KSF had played a couple of icehockey matches in 1929 (last cold winter) against Södertälje SK from Sweden and Silkeborg with a team of olympic football players and field hockey players that played bandy in wintertime when it was possible].

It was the only club in Denmark so they had nobody to play against until Rungsted was created in 1941. During the war KSF was able too play a few games against IK Göta from Sweden in Copenhagen, but a Danish league was first created in 1955.
So that was all the training the Danish team have had when they competed in the WC in 1949.
Jørgen Hviid was the only real hockey player on the Danish team, whereas his younger brother Erik was a very good speed skater that became Danish Speed Skating Champion in 1941+1942, but didn't have any stick skills like his older brother. Jørgen Hviid scored all of Denmark's 4 goals in the 3 blow out matches (0-47 vs Canada, 1-25 vs Austria and 3-8 vs Belgium). Apparently Jørgen Hviid was also the Danish Champion in “Skating Jumps over oil barrels“ with 8 as the national record.
Danes also specialized in “backwards skating“ just before WW1 setting numerous world records, when they figured out the Norwegians were to good in forwards skating.

So does any of you Latvians have any information about the early days of Latvian hockey. Did they have any roster files and records of point production?
Eliteprospects actually stated that Jørgen Hviid (Jorgens Hvids) went back and forth between his newly started KSF and Latvia to play for Unions Riga again in the seasons 1937-38 and 1938-39. So maybe until the Sovjet conquest stopped his playing there?

EDIT: Apparently 1931-32 was the first season of the Latvian Hockey league (with 9 teams), so he was part of the first Latvian Icehockey champions (as 15-16 years old). [though you can find some info about Unions Riga also being champion in 1930-31 and it's quite unclear when in 1931 Jørgen Hviid got his debut].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Hockey_League

Found some info. Apparently it was because his “latniatized“ name was “Jergens Hvids“.
Teams roster of Unions Riga: http://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%ABgas_%22Unions%22
The Latvian wikipedia on him had the following mistake (he couldn't have played for KSF from 1933-37, because he first created KSF ice hockey in 1938).
http://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jergens_Hv%C4%ABds


Last edited by Justinov: 10-19-2014 at 09:51 AM.
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10-14-2014, 04:22 AM
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Yup, I was aware of him. The first unofficial Latvian league season was played in the winter of 1930-31. 1931-32 was the first official championship. Those nine teams were split into two groups - Rīga (six) and Liepāja (three). Then the winners of each group met each other in the finals - it was Unions versus Olimpija Liepāja.

To be fair, it worked similarly in Latvia. Bandy (called "hockey" in Latvia at that time) was the sport for years, and then around 1910 the first "Canadian hockey" game was played in Latvia. But even in early 1930's both bandy and ice hockey were equally popular. In the following years term "hockey" was already used to refer to "Canadian hockey".

I could try to look into him. There are no game sheets or stuff like that from those years, so the main source of information for those willing to explore history of pre-war Latvian hockey are newspapers of 1930s (all of which are available online, so it just takes time to look through all search results). I had some rather extensive material on Unions, I am sure it has more info on when did Hviid start playing and when did it end, whether he scored any goals, etc. I'll look it up, when I'm home tomorrow.

P.S. Hviid isn't the only one who played in Latvia during those years. Also Norwegian Knut Bogh played for Unions for a while. Later he scored a goal against Latvia in the 1937 or 1938 WC.


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10-15-2014, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GX View Post
Yup, I was aware of him. The first unofficial Latvian league season was played in the winter of 1930-31. 1931-32 was the first official championship. Those nine teams were split into two groups - Rīga (six) and Liepāja (three). Then the winners of each group met each other in the finals - it was Unions versus Olimpija Liepāja.

To be fair, it worked similarly in Latvia. Bandy (called "hockey" in Latvia at that time) was the sport for years, and then around 1910 the first "Canadian hockey" game was played in Latvia. But even in early 1930's both bandy and ice hockey were equally popular. In the following years term "hockey" was already used to refer to "Canadian hockey".

I could try to look into him. There are no game sheets or stuff like that from those years, so the main source of information for those willing to explore history of pre-war Latvian hockey are newspapers of 1930s (all of which are available online, so it just takes time to look through all search results). I had some rather extensive material on Unions, I am sure it has more info on when did Hviid start playing and when did it end, whether he scored any goals, etc. I'll look it up, when I'm home tomorrow.

P.S. Hviid isn't the only one who played in Latvia during those years. Also Norwegian Knut Bogh played for Unions for a while. Later he scored a goal against Latvia in the 1937 or 1938 WC.
Thanks a lot!
It seems also there is some confusion in Scandinavia about what to call the games.

I found this postcard (Swedes called it “vykort“) from the first Nordic Games in 1901: [It says “hockey“, but it looks very like bandy players with bandy size playing field?]
http://vyer.nu/nordiska-spelen-1901-hockeyspel/

Apparently Bandy was introduced to Scandinavia from England, but likely under the name hockey-on-ice to distinguish it from land hockey [in Denmark field hockey is still just called hockey].
In Denmark already in 1893 by C.G Tebbutt [according to http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandy_i_Danmark]. Copenhagen Skating Club KSF launched Bandy in 1895.
That is actually before it was introduced in Sweden - in 1895 by Count Clarence von Rosen, but it was called “hockey“ as the first club “Hockeyklubben“ in Stockholm was created in 1896!
[according to http://iof1.idrottonline.se/SvenskaB...ria1875-1919/]
So Denmark is an older Bandy nation than Sweden ! (go figure).

I found this site in Swedish: http://www.hockeyisten.se/artiklar/n...-till-sverige/
It explains that icehockey was not played by Swedes until the Olympics in Antwerpen 1920. Most of the Swedes thought that when icehockey was to be played at the olympics then it was bandy! So those Swedes participating were bandy players regarded as being the world best, so they thought that with just a little practice they would win this Canadian icehockey tournament with ease.
So the first Swedish Icehockey match was in 1920 Olympics against Belgium which the Swedes won 8-0, then beat France 4-0 and then apparently must have got an existential shock. They lost 12-1 to Canada and then 7-0 to USA. Regained some honour beating Switzerland 4-0, but lost the Bronze match 1-0 to Czechoslovakia!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hoc...ummer_Olympics
[But in all the tournament the Swedes were the only team to actually score on the Canadians].

Then we have the European Icehockey championship in Sweden 1921: [Only two teams: Swedes beat Czechoslovakia 7-4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Hoc...mpionship_1921

Then the St. Moritz tournament in 1922 - which also were the year that the Swedish Icehockey Union were created [and where the Danes learned about icehockey for the first time]:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Hoc...mpionship_1922
There Czechoslovakia won over Sweden with Switzerland third as the only three participants.

So we must regard that all mentions of “hockey“ in Scandinavia before 1920 really is bandy [In Denmark the bandy players first learned about icehockey in St Moritz 1922].
So when it the first clear cut evidence of “Canadian ice hockey“ being played in Latvia? Is the 1910 date secure because that is VERY EARLY compared with the rest of the North!
If they had played icehockey for a decade why not joining the Olympics 1920 or the European Championship in 1921-1922? [Especially Stockholm 1921 would have been easy transport wise].

I have thought why Jørgen Hviid didn't play for Unions Riga between 1934-1937. [He apparently played there from 1931-1934 then again 1937-39].
In 1934 his family moved back to Denmark and as Jørgen Hviid was 18 he would have joined the Danish navy. As he rose to the rank of “marine-løjtnant“ (marine-lieutenant) it would explain that for the time taking to get an officer education in the navy, he was not able to play again until late 1937 and it also explains why he didn't create the KSF-icehockey branch before 1938!

It would be truly fantastic if you can find anything in the Latvian newspapers!


Last edited by Justinov: 10-19-2014 at 03:27 PM.
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10-19-2014, 08:14 AM
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Yeah, first ice hockey game in Latvia was played on February 15 1909. It was played between Baltic Germans - Unions won Schutzengartens 4:3. [There is a picture at Rigaische Zeitung with the players sitting behind an ice hockey puck]

Around the same time bandy was introduced over here as well. It was one ice hockey game, and then everyone returned to bandy. Ice hockey games were played only from time to time.

A 1924 article states that "it seems Canadian hockey will not become popular over here, because, in comparison to our hockey [bandy], it has less life, speed and beauty, perhaps also we don't know how to play it well and also the ice condition may not always be adequate."

Latvian press treats Hviid as the leader of Unions team in 1937-39. Still, the team wasn't a title contender at that time anymore, but rather one that would find itself in the last places of tournaments.

Hviid also graduated from Gymnasium in Riga in 1934. So he left after graduation.

Apparently he started playing hockey in 1932 for Kaiserwald, but then switched to Unions.

Statistics:
1932-33 -
Unions played 6 games, Hviid played in 4 of them, scored 4 goals. (There is another game Unions won 3:0, for which there is no record of who played or scored)
1933-34 -
Unions played 10 games, Hviid played in 7 of them, scored 6 goals. (One 10:0 victory over Kaizerwald is missing all goal scorers and player, another 0:3 game doesn't have roster as well)
1937-38 -
Unions played 6 games, Hviid played in 2 of them. (2 games don't have thorough rosters)
1938-39 -
Unions played 3 games, Hviid played in 1 of them, scored 1 goal.

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10-19-2014, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GX View Post
Yeah, first ice hockey game in Latvia was played on February 15 1909. It was played between Baltic Germans - Unions won Schutzengartens 4:3. [There is a picture at Rigaische Zeitung with the players sitting behind an ice hockey puck]

Around the same time bandy was introduced over here as well. It was one ice hockey game, and then everyone returned to bandy. Ice hockey games were played only from time to time.

A 1924 article states that "it seems Canadian hockey will not become popular over here, because, in comparison to our hockey [bandy], it has less life, speed and beauty, perhaps also we don't know how to play it well and also the ice condition may not always be adequate."

Latvian press treats Hviid as the leader of Unions team in 1937-39. Still, the team wasn't a title contender at that time anymore, but rather one that would find itself in the last places of tournaments.

Hviid also graduated from Gymnasium in Riga in 1934. So he left after graduation.

Apparently he started playing hockey in 1932 for Kaiserwald, but then switched to Unions.

Statistics:
1932-33 -
Unions played 6 games, Hviid played in 4 of them, scored 4 goals. (There is another game Unions won 3:0, for which there is no record of who played or scored)
1933-34 -
Unions played 10 games, Hviid played in 7 of them, scored 6 goals. (One 10:0 victory over Kaizerwald is missing all goal scorers and player, another 0:3 game doesn't have roster as well)
1937-38 -
Unions played 6 games, Hviid played in 2 of them. (2 games don't have thorough rosters)
1938-39 -
Unions played 3 games, Hviid played in 1 of them, scored 1 goal.
Great stuff. Thanks a lot for your effort!

He might have some statistics for KH Rigas “Kaiserwald“ for the 1931-32 season?
So he actually only became Latvian Champion in 1932-33 according to your research!

Interesting with the news of him finishing his Gymnasium in Riga. Fits very well he was then ready for his navy service in Denmark.

That he only played a few games in 1937-1939 despite being team captain seems a bit odd, but maybe because he was traveling back and forth from Denmark.

But anyways of those games recorded he got 11G in 14 matches, which is not bad.....
Add that to his 4G in 3 matches in the WC 1949.

About the Latvia bandy. You find any record of international play in that period from around WW1 until icehockey takes over in the 30's?

Riga bandy team ~1915 picture:
http://hockeygods.com/images/12534-B...a___circa_1915

This small article states that bandy in the Baltics were originally called “winter football“.
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrar...1/JOHv3n1l.pdf
Interesting since the Danish bandy players 1895-1924 were also primarily footballers with some field hockey players.

Edit: Found this latvian site about the Latvian Icehockey beginnings. Though I can't read Latvian I can certainly look at the pictures.
It has pictures of the Unions Riga winners in 1931, 1932 & 1933. Jørgen Hviid is in the 1933 picture! (Not certain about the 1932 picture).
https://petrovich27.wordpress.com/ta...ndijs-latvija/
- short version of this much longer article with more pictures and info on Jørgen Hviid. https://petrovich27.files.wordpress....1933_red11.pdf
His latvian name is here stated as “Jorgens Hvīds“, so perhaps it's wrong in the latvian wikipedia with Jergens.

Picture of “Rigas Unions“ 1933 - Jørgen Hviid number 8 in the row:

Source: https://petrovich27.wordpress.com/2014/05/21/unions/


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10-20-2014, 06:50 AM
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As far as I could understand it, he didn't play in 1931-32, just that he practiced with Kaizervalds for a while prior joining Unions.

The correct way of spelling Hviid in Latvian would be Jergens Hvīds. But, as you already have noticed, there have been many ways of how it has been spelt. Jorgens, Jergens, Hvids, Hvīds, in the pre-war press I noticed that he was also referred to as Chvid(s).

And sorry, I don't know anything about bandy. Latvian bandy federation states that first bandy game was supposedly played in Latvia only in 1911. First local championship was held in 1920.

Btw, found a more detailed review of the first ice hockey game of February 15 1909. Each team had seven players, the game was played on a 35x50m field, several players had "Canadian ice hockey" sticks, others played with bandy sticks. There were no boards. Apparently the weather was bad, and by the end the puck reminded of a snow ball. (Here is the original article from Rigaische Zeitung https://periodika.lndb.lv/periodika2...on|issueType:P)

P.S. Fun fact - vice-president of the Latvian bandy federation is Eduards Odiņš, the best known Latvian ice hockey referee. He has several prizes as the best referee of the KHL, has also refereed some international tournaments.

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10-20-2014, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GX View Post
As far as I could understand it, he didn't play in 1931-32, just that he practiced with Kaizervalds for a while prior joining Unions.

The correct way of spelling Hviid in Latvian would be Jergens Hvīds. But, as you already have noticed, there have been many ways of how it has been spelt. Jorgens, Jergens, Hvids, Hvīds, in the pre-war press I noticed that he was also referred to as Chvid(s).

And sorry, I don't know anything about bandy. Latvian bandy federation states that first bandy game was supposedly played in Latvia only in 1911. First local championship was held in 1920.

Btw, found a more detailed review of the first ice hockey game of February 15 1909. Each team had seven players, the game was played on a 35x50m field, several players had "Canadian ice hockey" sticks, others played with bandy sticks. There were no boards. Apparently the weather was bad, and by the end the puck reminded of a snow ball. (Here is the original article from Rigaische Zeitung https://periodika.lndb.lv/periodika2...on|issueType:P)

P.S. Fun fact - vice-president of the Latvian bandy federation is Eduards Odiņš, the best known Latvian ice hockey referee. He has several prizes as the best referee of the KHL, has also refereed some international tournaments.
Good to know the correct Latvian version - Jergens Hvīds
In Danish Jørgen ->The Danish “ø“ sound will in this instance before an -r and without “Stød“ (pressure) be like German “ö“. So /Jör-әn/ with emphasize on first syllable and weak second syllable.
The surname Hviid is a decorative version of Hvid (= white) and pronounced the same way as /Við/

So the first icehockey game was perhaps more like a bandy-hockey hybrid?
Actually different places played bandy with 11 players or 7 players. Norway played with 7 men on each side (1912-1928 which they called “ishockey“!!!!, and changed to 11 men bandy in 1929).
Sweden played normally with 11 men, but you have different rules for 7-men or 11-men bandy (7-man bandy doesn't have offside and have from 2011/12 eliminated corner-strikes).
Still don't know what the Danes did.
Today you even have “Rink-bandy“ which is played on an icehockey rink.
So seven men on each team could also be a bandy feature and not a special mark of Icehockey.

So first bandy game as late as 1911 (that is a bit surprising) with local bandy-championship in 1920 [you have any idea what clubs - was it exclusively Riga or more spread out].

What a fantastic name “Odiņš“ sounds to a Scandinavian - (checked that it actually means Mosquito).
But Latvia is getting stronger in Bandy. They won the B-group in 2014 (Irkutsk). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandy_W...mpionship_2014


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10-21-2014, 10:08 AM
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Most soccer, ice hockey teams of that time were a part of a bigger sports club. Just like in Scandinavia and elsewhere in Europe. So I suspect that names didn't differ much from the later ice hockey league or the soccer Virslīga. Most of the clubs started off as cycling clubs. For example, ice hockey teams like LSB Riga, Unions Riga, Olimpija Liepaja (won several soccer championships as well) were originally cycling clubs.

With regards to bandy, I found that, for example, in 1923 Latvian champion was Rīgas airētāju klubs (Riga sailing club). It seems it was one of the top clubs in Latvia. There is an article about the Unions female bandy team from 1924 as well.

Some international games:
1922 January 28th - Riga team (combined of Rīgas airētāju klubs and V.M.C.A.) played in Tallinn. It lost 2:10 to "Sport" and 2:10 to "Revel hockey club" (as you might know Revel is the historic name of Tallinn)
1924 - Rīgas airētāju klubs won Konigsberg's "Verein fur Korperubung" in Riga. No score is mentioned, though.
There are many more games.

Seems that the pre-war press of 1920's is full of articles about the bandy teams as well, but the site is lagging for me today.

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10-21-2014, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinov View Post
But Latvia is getting stronger in Bandy. They won the B-group in 2014 (Irkutsk). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandy_W...mpionship_2014
Yeah, I noticed that. It also means that Latvia should play in Division A for the first time, but somehow on the 2015 WC official homepage they are listed as a part of Division B. http://bandyvm2015.ru/en/news/

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10-21-2014, 10:51 AM
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Bringing questions over from your latest IHF post..

1) There are many interesting stories. For example, there was Ēriks Koņeckis (Erich Konecki), which started playing ice hockey in the late 1930's, and after WWII became one of the leading forwards in Europe while playing in Germany. In fact, after WWII Augsburger EV was full of Latvians that escaped Soviet occupation. It had Koņeckis, Bluķis, Ansons, Kleinops, Ritums, Veide. Most of these guys previously had played for the Latvian national team as well.

Some other notable names apart from Kušķis and Koņeckis of the pre-war era. There were only four players that played for national team in all 4 WC and 1936 Olympics - Roberts Bluķis (later played in Augsburg and Manitoba), Kušķis, Arvīds Pētersons (later became a volleyball coach), Leonīds Vedējs (flag carrier at the Olympics).

Harijs Vītoliņš dynasty also began in the pre-war era. The 1915-born Vītoliņš played for ASK Riga and national team, then Dinamo Riga, and eventually worked as a coach for Dinamo until 1975. 1941-born Vītoliņš was a 10-time Latvian SSR champion (Dinamo didn't play in that tournament), also a coach. 1968-born Vītoliņš is the current head coach of Dynamo Moscow, he was the captain of Latvian national team, mainly played in Swiss, one of those players drafted twice in the NHL.

2) In 1929-30 SSS Liepaja organized an ice hockey tournament for teams over there. It was the main trigger why the 1930-31 "unofficial" championship took place. (Also, in 1931 Latvia became a member of IIHF)

3) Could try to look into it.

4) I haven't looked into it, but that is a popular idea. I mean, most Latvians believes it's true. Soviet league was established in 1946 along with all the Moscow teams we know today, so there was no ice hockey before WWII. There have been also talks that Czechs taught Soviets how to play hockey. Btw, Latvian Harijs Mellups was the starting goaltender in the first-ever USSR national team game.

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10-21-2014, 11:03 AM
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Elmārs Bauris is a living legend. He is 96. (A small interview with him - http://vimeo.com/54156585) He played for LSB Riga between 1938 and 1940, Dinamo Riga between 1946-1956, and Spartak Moscow shortly during the winter of 1949-50.

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10-21-2014, 11:58 AM
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Great posts.
Always love to hear about old “sporters“.
In these amateur days the great sportspeople were involved in tons of different sports, so they had something to do all year long. So fieldhockey players and footballers often played Bandy as these three sports are fairly similar. The step from Bandy to Icehockey seemed easy for the Bandy players, though they often got a harsh wake up call as the Swedes did in the Olympics 1920.
Even in 1921 Norwegians beat the Swedes 7-3 in 7-mans bandy, so also there must have been some difference from 11-man bandy.

But the leading Bandy team in Latvia being a sailing team is pretty surprising!
So bandy games against Estonian teams in 1922.
Wonder if any Latvians (male or female) ever participated in the Nordic Games? [Danish bandy did in 1909 & 1917].
But Bandy being popular as a female sport is the same as I found for Denmark and Sweden.

First International Latvian Icehockey was this one - from the stunning Lithuanian Icehockey History page of “Ledo Ripka“:
http://www.internationalhockey.net/f...y-in-Lithuania

“Lithuania - Latvia 0:3 (0:2, 0:1, 0:0). 1932 03 06, Riga, Latvia.
I don't know yet who played for Latvia, but for Lithuania (brighter jerseys): Antanas Kuzmickas, J. Zumeris, Kęstutis Bulota, Jurgis Grigalauskas, S. Volodka, A. Hofmanas, Juozas Klimas, Vladas Danilevičius, Kazys Brazauskas“
.

This must have been a warm up for the Latvian team for the European Championship 1932 in Berlin, just played a week later.....

So Lithuania had their first icehockey game in 1922 (did Steponas Darius also visit St Moritz as the three danes did bringing icehockey home??) and already had an icehockey league in Lithuania in 1926!
So maybe influence from Lithuania triggered it in Latvia......that would be surprising!
Don't know about Estonia yet though....

If you can find anything about the rules used that would be great.....
I have a suspicion that a lot of these early games are perhaps of a more hybrid kind?!

Anyways what makes hockey hockey and bandy bandy......
Type of stick? Body contact/Tackling? Puck or ball? Size of playing field? Boards or open? Number of players? etc
I'm suspected you can find in betweens at this early stage....

I have to say I have no idea of historic rule-development (yet) in either bandy or icehockey.........


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10-21-2014, 12:04 PM
  #13
Justinov
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Yeah, I noticed that. It also means that Latvia should play in Division A for the first time, but somehow on the 2015 WC official homepage they are listed as a part of Division B. http://bandyvm2015.ru/en/news/
I would have thought that they would go up and play in A-Division (Group B) with Norway, USA and Belarus with Canada going down.....
But maybe they still regard it as to a big jump and want to stay in the B-Division (group C) playing Estonia, Hungary and Netherlands (next year Japan) that are around their level.......
or just lack of update in the site....

But to follow history (from 1922) beating Estonia is one big bandy-step for Latvia......


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10-21-2014, 03:26 PM
  #14
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Yup, Latvian national team played it's first international game vs. Lithuania on February 7th 1932 in Riga. Latvians won 3:0. The first goal was scored by Alfrēds Verners (assist to Johans Skadiņš), the other two by Indriķis Reinbahs.

Latvian roster:
G Herberts Kušķis - Unions Rīga
D Herberts Keslers - Unions Rīga
D Indriķis Reinbahs - Unions Rīga
F Roberts Bluķis - US Rīga
F Ādolfs Petrovskis - US Rīga
F Johans Skadiņš - Unions Rīga
F Leonīds Vedējs - US Rīga
F Alfrēds Verners - Unions Rīga
F Valentīns Volframs - US Rīga

It was played on a 40x80m rink(!).

I guess the main thing how the athletes of that time have distinguished between bandy or ice hockey is just whether they played with ball or a puck. But that obviously is only my pure speculation.

I wonder if field hockey was played in Latvia during those years as well. Apparently we have a federation now, but I have no idea whether there is a single team in Latvia.

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10-22-2014, 11:20 AM
  #15
Justinov
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Originally Posted by GX View Post
Yup, Latvian national team played it's first international game vs. Lithuania on February 7th 1932 in Riga. Latvians won 3:0. The first goal was scored by Alfrēds Verners (assist to Johans Skadiņš), the other two by Indriķis Reinbahs.

Latvian roster:
G Herberts Kušķis - Unions Rīga
D Herberts Keslers - Unions Rīga
D Indriķis Reinbahs - Unions Rīga
F Roberts Bluķis - US Rīga
F Ādolfs Petrovskis - US Rīga
F Johans Skadiņš - Unions Rīga
F Leonīds Vedējs - US Rīga
F Alfrēds Verners - Unions Rīga
F Valentīns Volframs - US Rīga

It was played on a 40x80m rink(!).

I guess the main thing how the athletes of that time have distinguished between bandy or ice hockey is just whether they played with ball or a puck. But that obviously is only my pure speculation.

I wonder if field hockey was played in Latvia during those years as well. Apparently we have a federation now, but I have no idea whether there is a single team in Latvia.
5 Unions Riga and 4 US Riga members on the team (so basically Unions Riga without Jørgen Hviid ). Interesting that is was not spread out on more clubs.

Really a rink of 40*80 meter! That is really a hybrid between bandy and icehockey. [or maybe it is 9-man bandy field size back then -> in Sweden today it's 60*40 meters for 7 mans bandy! and 90-110*60-65 meters for 11 mans bandy; but back in 1901 Nordic Games you also played 9-mans bandy and 80*40 meters would be an intermediate size]. Then you probably applied some boards of wood and had a puck.......

So what kind of bandy did Latvians play - 7-9-11? Unless off course some early icehockey rules has bigger playing area possible....??

Field hockey was always a small sport in Denmark, but have had a surprisingly stable membership (constant around 700-800 from 1923 until today).
“Dansk Hockey Union“ was created in 1908 with the basis of the two oldest clubs (“Hockeyklubben Orient“ in Lyngby from 1907 & “Københavns Hockeyklub“ from 1904).
Denmark won a silver medal in Olympics 1920 and also competed in 1928, 1936, 1948 & 1960.
Henning Holst (also was a bandy player switching to icehockey) was in the first three tournaments and scored 3 goals in 1928 (haven't found Danish scorers for the other two olympics he participated in).

I can't really find anything of early field hockey in Latvia, so maybe it never really got introduced until fairly recent?


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10-23-2014, 03:01 AM
  #16
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They sent players from more clubs to 1932 WC. They had a fundraiser tournament in Riga, in order to get money so that they could get to the WC, and the federation decided that each team should be represented by at least one player.

With regards to field hockey, apparently it was played in Latvia. Found such press excerpts like "Let's take a look at field hockey, which is rather well known here as well and especially popular during autumn months" (1934) or an article from 1936 telling the story of some local Aizsargi unit that started played field hockey in 1935. Still, it certainly wasn't a common sport. Found a 1936 sports newspaper with an article that basically introduces the reader to field hockey.

P.S. Accidentally found a really interesting article from 1938 saying that the Baltic states should make sure that basketball is part of 1940 Olympics after all. Apparently Helsinki had announced that they won't be able to hold basketball, field hockey, polo and hand ball tournaments.

In the same time, Baltic states were one step ahead of rest of Europe in basketball, so there is no doubt they wanted basketball to be part of the Olympics. The first European championship (Eurobasket) in 1935 was won by Latvia, the next to by Lithuania. Latvia got silver in 1939, Estonians were fifth twice. (Lithuania did not play at the 1936 Olympics, however Latvia and Estonia were rather unsuccessful)

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10-23-2014, 11:29 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by GX View Post
They sent players from more clubs to 1932 WC. They had a fundraiser tournament in Riga, in order to get money so that they could get to the WC, and the federation decided that each team should be represented by at least one player.

With regards to field hockey, apparently it was played in Latvia. Found such press excerpts like "Let's take a look at field hockey, which is rather well known here as well and especially popular during autumn months" (1934) or an article from 1936 telling the story of some local Aizsargi unit that started played field hockey in 1935. Still, it certainly wasn't a common sport. Found a 1936 sports newspaper with an article that basically introduces the reader to field hockey.

P.S. Accidentally found a really interesting article from 1938 saying that the Baltic states should make sure that basketball is part of 1940 Olympics after all. Apparently Helsinki had announced that they won't be able to hold basketball, field hockey, polo and hand ball tournaments.

In the same time, Baltic states were one step ahead of rest of Europe in basketball, so there is no doubt they wanted basketball to be part of the Olympics. The first European championship (Eurobasket) in 1935 was won by Latvia, the next to by Lithuania. Latvia got silver in 1939, Estonians were fifth twice. (Lithuania did not play at the 1936 Olympics, however Latvia and Estonia were rather unsuccessful)
Interesting approach to make sure you have one players from each team. Doubtful if that made the team stronger as you would prefer to have players that know each other.

With regard to field hockey you now have two sports - one for summer and one for winter if you live in Northern Europe:
The outdoor normal field hockey and indoor field hockey (play on a handball size field, where for safety reasons you are not allowed to lift the ball - unless it's a shot on goal inside the circle: you can only*push never hit the ball in indoor hockey):
Denmark took a bronze in the indoor european championship in 1997 (only second medal after the olympic silver in 1920).

Example of indoor field hockey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njHBk_AaV9o

Outdoor field are today almost always played on artificial grass as it makes for more level surface. Playing field hockey on a football training pitch is really something else as the ball suddenly bounces high and can hit you in the face.
Example of outdoor field hockey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVG0bqBYbc4

As basketball became very much Baltic, then Sweden and Denmark (and Germany) got handball instead as the leading indoor sport (handball also exist in outdoor and indoor versions with different number of players, but the indoor version ended up winning after WW2).

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10-25-2014, 08:28 AM
  #18
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Hi!

You have very interesting conversation. I would like to specify some things that might make things a little clearer.

1) Jørgen Hviid (in Latvian sources also - Jorgens Hvids, Hviids, Chvids etc.) has filled the application form of sports society "Kaiserwald"(in Latvian - Ķeizarmežs, Kaizervalds) indicating that he wants to play in the ice hockey section of the society. The application form was dated by March 3, 1932. This is evidenced by Hviid'a manually filled form, which I held in my arms in the Latvian State Historical Archives.

As it is known, hockey team "Kaiserwald" did not take a part in the Latvian championship in season 1932/1933. And before mentioned season part of team's hockey players have moved to other clubs. For example, Jørgen Hviid and Sigurds Bergmanis joined the "Unions" (in German - Union). This "transfer" is also confirmed by that time press materials. (P.S. later to only one season (1933./34.) "Kaiserwald" returned to the Latvian hockey championship.)

So far I have not been able to find documentary evidence in the archives or in that time press, that J.Hviid has been played in hockey team "Unions" before the season 1932/1933. Consequently, we can be sure that Hviid was Latvian hockey champion in 1933. But about year 1932 (as a champion) authoritative evidence is lacking.
(It is known that Erik Hviid, supposedly Jørgen Hviid's brother, has been engaging in the sports society "Unions". Erik has not played in the first team of "Unions"; but it should be verified has he been played in "Unions" farm club - in the Latvian second level championship, called '2. klase' (second class).)

2) The first international game (against Lithuania) of the Latvian national team was held in February 27 (not February 7!) 1932. On the team's stuff must be said that Arveds (and not Herberts!) Keslers was player. It is one of the most common mistakes in the Latvian ice hockey's literature.

3) So far, the first known ice hockey game, held in Latvia (February 1909), was between the German clubs, but they included not only German players. There were Brits and Latvians as well.

In case if you need some more information about the history of Latvian ice hockey, write me on petrovich27@inbox.lv and I will try to help.

With best regards,
Andris

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10-25-2014, 02:58 PM
  #19
Justinov
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Originally Posted by petrovich27 View Post
Hi!

You have very interesting conversation. I would like to specify some things that might make things a little clearer.

1) Jørgen Hviid (in Latvian sources also - Jorgens Hvids, Hviids, Chvids etc.) has filled the application form of sports society "Kaiserwald"(in Latvian - Ķeizarmežs, Kaizervalds) indicating that he wants to play in the ice hockey section of the society. The application form was dated by March 3, 1932. This is evidenced by Hviid'a manually filled form, which I held in my arms in the Latvian State Historical Archives.

As it is known, hockey team "Kaiserwald" did not take a part in the Latvian championship in season 1932/1933. And before mentioned season part of team's hockey players have moved to other clubs. For example, Jørgen Hviid and Sigurds Bergmanis joined the "Unions" (in German - Union). This "transfer" is also confirmed by that time press materials. (P.S. later to only one season (1933./34.) "Kaiserwald" returned to the Latvian hockey championship.)

So far I have not been able to find documentary evidence in the archives or in that time press, that J.Hviid has been played in hockey team "Unions" before the season 1932/1933. Consequently, we can be sure that Hviid was Latvian hockey champion in 1933. But about year 1932 (as a champion) authoritative evidence is lacking.
(It is known that Erik Hviid, supposedly Jørgen Hviid's brother, has been engaging in the sports society "Unions". Erik has not played in the first team of "Unions"; but it should be verified has he been played in "Unions" farm club - in the Latvian second level championship, called '2. klase' (second class).)

2) The first international game (against Lithuania) of the Latvian national team was held in February 27 (not February 7!) 1932. On the team's stuff must be said that Arveds (and not Herberts!) Keslers was player. It is one of the most common mistakes in the Latvian ice hockey's literature.

3) So far, the first known ice hockey game, held in Latvia (February 1909), was between the German clubs, but they included not only German players. There were Brits and Latvians as well.

In case if you need some more information about the history of Latvian ice hockey, write me on petrovich27@inbox.lv and I will try to help.

With best regards,
Andris
Fantastic info Andris. Fun to have the actual evidence between your fingers.
So we can be sure that even if Jørgen Hviid is listed as player for Kaiserwald in March 1932 as 15 years old he didn't played any games for them.
So when was the date he made the official change from Kaisarwald to Unions?? (probably late in 1932).
Any idea when his debut was for Unions if that is stated anywhere in the Latvian papers?

Jørgen Hviid was born 1. september 1916.
He had two brothers Erik Hviid and Viggo Hviid. I know that Erik was the youngest (as it is stated on the article given below), but I haven't been able to find their birth dates, but they both played icehockey and Erik Hviid was also a speed skater winning the Danish allround championship in 1941 and 1942. .
The article states that their dad had run a plumbing business in Latvia.

I found this interview with Erik Hviid from 2003 about the WC 1949 match. Here he states that Jørgen Hviid at one point for “unexplained reasons“ even was selected to represent the Latvian national icehockey team! [Sadly he doesn't say more about it].

He stats that both Jørgen and Viggo was very much for participating at the WC 1949, whereas he himself were against it as he knew Denmark would be humiliated. The whole team was KSF players and one “stray Norwegian“ (no name given). They practiced at the Forum on a small area that was iced because of a visit from “Holidays on Ice“. So all three brothers must have played at the tournament in 1949.
http://jyllands-posten.dk/sport/ECE3...g-afklapsning/

Apparently Erik Hviid has (if he still lives?) a scrapbook with info of all his career. The article say it even includes pictures of iceboat sailing on the lakes in Latvia.

Very fascinating that Erik Hviid played in Unions farm club - what year?
Any kind of evidence of Viggo Hviid I wonder?

Jesper Hviid and Torsten Hviid are the sons of Jørgen Hviid and they also played Icehockey.

Jesper Hviid, born 1953: (played WC 1972-79 and Danish Player of the Year 1971-72)
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=82421
He is something as strange as an “uncertain draft“ by Winnipeg Jets in 1972!!! It was perhaps made and then they changed their minds or whatever?!
Jesper Hviid had the honour receiving the IIHF Hall of Fame on behalf of his dad in 2005 standing with Vyacheslav Fetisov on his left and Mats Näslund on his right.*
Source. http://politiken.dk/sport/ECE113283/...hockey-pioner/

Torsten Hviid, born 1937: (played WC 1962)
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=241774

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10-26-2014, 02:25 PM
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(1) When Jørgen Hviid joined to the society "Kaiserwald", hockey season (1931/1932) in Latvia was continuing – some national championship games were held and Lightning-tournament (Latvian: Zibensturnīrs, Zibeņturnīrs; German: Blitzturnier) happened in March 5-6. "Kaiserwald" took a part in the tourney and it is known that Hiid was among the players (he scored a goal). This is confirmed by the newspaper "Riga am Sonntag" (March 6,1932), describing the game of March 5 – against "Unions". Perhaps, exactly game of March 5 was the first game for J. Hviid as a player of "Kaiserwald" hockey team.

On March 4 the game between teams "Kaiserwald" un "Universitātes Sports" was held in frames of Latvian championship. It would be investigated, - did Hviid take a part in that game? The second question - whether in a short period of time had already completed all the formalities for the Hviid officially allowed to play the Latvian Championship? It is interesting that in LZSS (Latvijas Ziemas Sporta Savienība; transl. Latvian Winter Sports Union; an umbrella organization for that time) meeting of the Board, what was held in March 8, 1932, penalties for non-registered players using in the team has got "ASK" and "Kaiserwald". This points to the fact that in the team had played a hockey player (a proper name is not mentioned in the Protocol of LZSS board meeting), who still officially had no right to do so.

(2) According to that time procedure, during the hockey season, hockey players could not change clubs (sports societies). Transition took place before the season. Before season 1932./1933. deadline for the player application (and transitions) was set December 1, but later with decision of the Board of LZSS deadline was extended until December 13. Protocols of LZSS Board meeting confirm these dates.

Accordingly, Jørgen Hviid had moved from "Kaiserwald" to "Unions" no later than December 1932. Notification of players was also possible during the hockey season, but it related to the athletes who were a members of the certain sports society (club) (not to hockey players who have changed hockey clubs).

Hockey season 1932/1933 started relatively late – in the middle of January. One of the first test games and possible the very first in that season was among "Unions" and "Universitātes Sports" and it was held in January 8, 1933. J. Hviid took a part in this game and perhaps it was his first game as "Unions" player. Describing this game newspaper "Latvijas Sargs" (January 9, 1933) wrote that newcomers of hockey team "Unions" – Bergmanis un Hviid (both from "Kaiserwald") – are perspective hockey players.

(3) Due to Latvian newspaper reports (1930ties), Jørgen Hviid had 3 brothers. The oldest – Viggo (Latvian: Vigo), who in May 1931 was stated as 18 years old; So Viggo was born in 1912 or 1913. Without Viggo and Erik had one more brother, about him I have no any data yet. Unfortunately, birth data of Erik Hviid I have failed to find. It is known that Erik was a member of sports society "Unions", but for today no evidences are found – did he play a hockey in this society? About sporting activities of Viggo Hviid I have no data yet.

(4) As a player of Latvian national team Jørgen Hviid has not played in international matches (against the national teams of other countries). But in January 1933 he was included in the candidate list for the Latvian team before the World Championship in Prague. J. Hviid was not included in the national team and did not go to Prague. He was only 16 years old at that time!

Later Hviid has been nominated for the Riga City team (like a national team). But, for example, in early January 1939, when the Latvian national team preparing for the current world championship, he was named among Latvian B team (relatively – the second national team) players. However, J. Hviid did not take a part in the game among A and B teams what was held in January 6, 1939. The question about participation of Hviid in the Latvian national team would have to be studied more.

(5) Do you have more detailed and authoritative information about Jørgen Hviid life after 1940ties? What was his occupation? Where did he live?

Andris, petrovich27@inbox.lv

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10-27-2014, 11:26 AM
  #21
Justinov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrovich27 View Post
(1) When Jørgen Hviid joined to the society "Kaiserwald", hockey season (1931/1932) in Latvia was continuing – some national championship games were held and Lightning-tournament (Latvian: Zibensturnīrs, Zibeņturnīrs; German: Blitzturnier) happened in March 5-6. "Kaiserwald" took a part in the tourney and it is known that Hviid was among the players (he scored a goal). This is confirmed by the newspaper "Riga am Sonntag" (March 6,1932), describing the game of March 5 – against "Unions". Perhaps, exactly game of March 5 was the first game for J. Hviid as a player of "Kaiserwald" hockey team.

On March 4 the game between teams "Kaiserwald" un "Universitātes Sports" was held in frames of Latvian championship. It would be investigated, - did Hviid take a part in that game? The second question - whether in a short period of time had already completed all the formalities for the Hviid officially allowed to play the Latvian Championship? It is interesting that in LZSS (Latvijas Ziemas Sporta Savienība; transl. Latvian Winter Sports Union; an umbrella organization for that time) meeting of the Board, what was held in March 8, 1932, penalties for non-registered players using in the team has got "ASK" and "Kaiserwald". This points to the fact that in the team had played a hockey player (a proper name is not mentioned in the Protocol of LZSS board meeting), who still officially had no right to do so.

(2) According to that time procedure, during the hockey season, hockey players could not change clubs (sports societies). Transition took place before the season. Before season 1932./1933. deadline for the player application (and transitions) was set December 1, but later with decision of the Board of LZSS deadline was extended until December 13. Protocols of LZSS Board meeting confirm these dates.

Accordingly, Jørgen Hviid had moved from "Kaiserwald" to "Unions" no later than December 1932. Notification of players was also possible during the hockey season, but it related to the athletes who were a members of the certain sports society (club) (not to hockey players who have changed hockey clubs).

Hockey season 1932/1933 started relatively late – in the middle of January. One of the first test games and possible the very first in that season was among "Unions" and "Universitātes Sports" and it was held in January 8, 1933. J. Hviid took a part in this game and perhaps it was his first game as "Unions" player. Describing this game newspaper "Latvijas Sargs" (January 9, 1933) wrote that newcomers of hockey team "Unions" – Bergmanis un Hviid (both from "Kaiserwald") – are perspective hockey players.

(3) Due to Latvian newspaper reports (1930ties), Jørgen Hviid had 3 brothers. The oldest – Viggo (Latvian: Vigo), who in May 1931 was stated as 18 years old; So Viggo was born in 1912 or 1913. Without Viggo and Erik had one more brother, about him I have no any data yet. Unfortunately, birth data of Erik Hviid I have failed to find. It is known that Erik was a member of sports society "Unions", but for today no evidences are found – did he play a hockey in this society? About sporting activities of Viggo Hviid I have no data yet.

(4) As a player of Latvian national team Jørgen Hviid has not played in international matches (against the national teams of other countries). But in January 1933 he was included in the candidate list for the Latvian team before the World Championship in Prague. J. Hviid was not included in the national team and did not go to Prague. He was only 16 years old at that time!

Later Hviid has been nominated for the Riga City team (like a national team). But, for example, in early January 1939, when the Latvian national team preparing for the current world championship, he was named among Latvian B team (relatively – the second national team) players. However, J. Hviid did not take a part in the game among A and B teams what was held in January 6, 1939. The question about participation of Hviid in the Latvian national team would have to be studied more.

(5) Do you have more detailed and authoritative information about Jørgen Hviid life after 1940ties? What was his occupation? Where did he live?

Andris, petrovich27@inbox.lv
Very interesting. So perhaps he did play one game for Kaiserwald at the Latvian National Championship the 4th of March 1932 and that was the reason for the board meeting the 8th of March as Jørgen Hviid wasn't correctly registred!
Anyways he played the 5'th of March for Kaiserwald and scored as 15 years old in the Lightning Tournament.

Interesting whether Jørgen Hviid didn't get selected in 1933 was because he wasn't good enough, because he was Danish or because the Latvians wanted to select a team from all clubs (as GX figured out) meaning that some Unions players had to be discarded?!
For the 1939 selection a true shame that he didn't play that game for Latvia B.
Perhaps he had already left Latvia as he apparently only played 1 game for Unions in 1939?

Sadly it's hard for me to find info about Jørgen Hviid as KSF has very little information in their webpage and Danish newspapers wont be ready to search online before 2015 (so no search option yet).

According to his son Jesper Hviid he did a lot of different skating (trained with artistic skaters and also powerskating) that he incorporated in his training: He became Danish Champion in “Skating Jumps over oil barrels“ and his personal record was 8 (doesn't say which year)
http://politiken.dk/sport/ECE113283/...hockey-pioner/

What is known is that he played in WC 1949 and scored 4 goals.

Danish Championships started in 1955:
Jan 1955: Silver with KSF (lost surprisingly 2-5 to Rungsted after leading 2-1)
1955/56: Danish Champion with KSF when they beat Rungsted 4-1 (and as the Jutland champion Silkeborg couldn't get over to Sjælland because of ice, it was decided with that match).
Source: http://hockeyligaen.dk/Nyheder.aspx?DocID=15628

No ice meant the next championship wasn't played until:

1959-60: KSF-Rungsted 6-5 in the final.
1960-61: KSF wins a tournament of 4 teams [KSF, Rungsted, Esbjerg, Silkeborg]
It is known from the source below that Jørgen Hviid played and scored one of the goals against Rungsted (a 4-3 win) as 44 years old.
Source: http://hockeyligaen.dk/Nyheder.aspx?DocID=15631

I haven't figured when Jørgen Hviid played his last match for KSF, but it seems from this he was Danish Champion 1955/56, 1959/60 (?) and 1960/61
He was able to play with his son Torsten Hviid winning the championship together in 1960/61. “I 1961 skrev Jørgen Hviid og Torsten ishockeyhistorie. Far og søn var begge på dét, der vandt DM-guld med KSF“.
Source: http://www.bt.dk/ishockey/tre-ishock...i-hall-of-fame

Need also to search his roll for the B-WC 1962.
EDIT: He didn't play - neither was he coach or spectator - as he had become Military Attaché in Stockholm in 1962.

Erik Hviid had tried to start a new hockey club in Birkerød called Kajerød Tigers in 1955/56 (?), but it seemingly collapsed as there were no good winters until 1959/60.
http://hockeyligaen.dk/Nyheder.aspx?DocID=15628

I haven't found any info otherwise of Jørgen Hviid (work, where he lived, when he died), but is still searching.


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10-27-2014, 12:55 PM
  #22
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World Championships 1962 and Denmark played in the B-group losing all 5 games.
So by 1962 Jørgen Hviid was not on the Danish roster, but his son Torsten Hviid was!
Source for all the stats below: http://statforum.5-games.ru/viewtopic.php?f=161&t=2051

The Roster:
Denmark
No Name Pos GP G A PTS PM PPG SHG
2 Danry Dan D 2 0 0 0 4 0 0
3 Mielow Bjarne D 5 2 0 2 0 0 0
4 Gautier Michael F 5 1 1 2 2 0 0
5 Hamann Ole D 3 0 0 0 2 0 0
6 Grauballe Niels F 5 1 0 1 0 0 0
7 Lebech Knud F 5 0 1 1 0 0 0
8 Christensen Svend F 5 0 0 0 10 0 0
9 Hviid Torsten D 5 1 1 2 2 0 0
10 Bjerrum Kjeld F 5 1 0 1 10 0 0
11 Jacobsen Keld F 5 0 1 1 4 0 0
12 Carlsen Bjarne F 5 1 1 2 0 1 0
13 Höybye “Guddi“ F 5 2 0 2 8 0 0
14 Hasselbach Uno D 5 0 0 0 6 0 0
15 Petersen Niels D 5 0 1 1 8 0 0
16 Schack Niels F 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
GP GA SVS SOG PM MIP
1 Andresen Hans GK 5 42 149 191 0 300:00
17 Jellum Niels GK 0 0 0 0 0 00:00
total goals - 9 total penalty - 56


Last edited by Justinov: 11-02-2014 at 08:13 AM.
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10-28-2014, 09:53 AM
  #23
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Fascinating thread. A very enjoyable and informative read.

Hats off to all of you who have contributed.

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10-28-2014, 03:01 PM
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Justinov
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Originally Posted by WhiteTiger View Post
Fascinating thread. A very enjoyable and informative read.

Hats off to all of you who have contributed.
Thank You
Hope we can get more forgotten information about the early start of Latvian (and thus also Danish) ice hockey out to the “public“ as most of this information is very hard to get by.

If anyone have found old videoclips or newspaper pictures, then it's also something that is great to see.

I can't search in Latvian, but I can show this clip that likely features the Hviid brothers (though since pictures of these players - 0.15-0.20 min - are not available on the net I can't identify them).
Source: http://oldportal.euscreen.eu/play.js...E52C4FE6D718B9

In this clip from 1937 in Copenhagen it must be Jørgen Hviid receiving flowers before the match [looks like him again around 1.04-1.10 min making an attack on the Scanians].
It could be the first launched KSF-icehockey match with the Hviids (Jørgen, Erik, Viggo) since the last good winter with possibility for ice hockey had been in 1929 (with the old KSF bandy players).
They played IFK Malmö on the Peblinge Lake in Copenhagen with the result 1-1 [don't know who scored].

So if anyones have old clips of Latvian hockey from the 1930's I would love to see it.

So problems of pre-rink days. KSF gets a few days of practice in the winter 1941 after getting up the boards - very wet on the ice. Voice is by legendary Danish sports commentator Gunnar “Nu“ Hansen.
Source: http://oldportal.euscreen.eu/play.js...5C5D6C0BD59EA2

Sweden-USA from WC 1949 with Swedish commentator.
Source: http://oldportal.euscreen.eu/play.js...390B0D45F812F8

Finland - Canada 1949 played in Helsinki with Finnish commentator. [until 2.07 min]
Source: http://vastaanotin.tv.funet.fi/cgi-b...katsaus_99.mp4

Czech documentary showing some early hockey WC's [sadly I don't understand Czech]:
Source: http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ivysilan...8452801350001/


Last edited by Justinov: 10-28-2014 at 04:23 PM.
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10-30-2014, 01:55 PM
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petrovich27
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Very interesting. So perhaps he did play one game for Kaiserwald at the Latvian National Championship the 4th of March 1932 and that was the reason for the board meeting the 8th of March as Jørgen Hviid wasn't correctly registred!
Anyways he played the 5'th of March for Kaiserwald and scored as 15 years old in the Lightning Tournament.

Interesting whether Jørgen Hviid didn't get selected in 1933 was because he wasn't good enough, because he was Danish or because the Latvians wanted to select a team from all clubs (as GX figured out) meaning that some Unions players had to be discarded?!
For the 1939 selection a true shame that he didn't play that game for Latvia B.
Perhaps he had already left Latvia as he apparently only played 1 game for Unions in 1939?

Sadly it's hard for me to find info about Jørgen Hviid as KSF has very little information in their webpage and Danish newspapers wont be ready to search online before 2015 (so no search option yet).

According to his son Jesper Hviid he did a lot of different skating (trained with artistic skaters and also powerskating) that he incorporated in his training: He became Danish Champion in “Skating Jumps over oil barrels“ and his personal record was 8 (doesn't say which year)
http://politiken.dk/sport/ECE113283/...hockey-pioner/

What is known is that he played in WC 1949 and scored 4 goals.

Danish Championships started in 1955:
Jan 1955: Silver with KSF (lost surprisingly 2-5 to Rungsted after leading 2-1)
1955/56: Danish Champion with KSF when they beat Rungsted 4-1 (and as the Jutland champion Silkeborg couldn't get over to Sjælland because of ice, it was decided with that match).
Source: http://hockeyligaen.dk/Nyheder.aspx?DocID=15628

No ice meant the next championship wasn't played until:

1959-60: KSF-Rungsted 6-5 in the final.
1960-61: KSF wins a tournament of 4 teams [KSF, Rungsted, Esbjerg, Silkeborg]
It is known from the source below that Jørgen Hviid played and scored one of the goals against Rungsted (a 4-3 win) as 44 years old.
Source: http://hockeyligaen.dk/Nyheder.aspx?DocID=15631

I haven't figured when Jørgen Hviid played his last match for KSF, but it seems from this he was Danish Champion 1955/56, 1959/60 and 1960/61 (perhaps he was actually able to play with his son Torsten Hviid).

Possible also Danish champion 1961/62 (perhaps with Torsten Hviid), but Rungsted won in 1962/63.
Need also to search his roll for the B-WC 1962.

Erik Hviid had tried to start a new hockey club in Birkerød called Kajerød Tigers in 1955/56 (?), but it seemingly collapsed as there were no good winters until 1959/60.
http://hockeyligaen.dk/Nyheder.aspx?DocID=15628

I haven't found any info otherwise of Jørgen Hviid (work, where he lived, when he died), but is still searching.
(1) Perhaps J. Hviid has played in "Kaiserwald" before March 5 (1932). But just as likely that board meeting of LZSS, held in the March 8, definet punishment to "Kaiserwald" team relates directly to Lightning-Tornament (Lat. Zibensturnīrs; Ger. Blitzturnier) games (if "Kaiserwald" managers did not have complied with all the formalities or there had any LZSS restrictions).

(2) Reasons for leaving J.Hviid out of Latvian national team for participating in World Championships in Prague in 1933 should be investigated separately

Also, the complectation of the national team, in order to be able to go to Prague each club players, should be evaluated carefully. Because one hockey club ("LSB" – Latvijas Sporta Biedrība; transl. Latvian Sports Society) was not represented in the World Championship 1933. For example, "LSB" player Alfrēds Brašmanis was included in list of candidates, but he was not included in the team. If the inclusion of each club would be the main reason and motive, then representative of "LSB" would have to travel to Prague .

(By the way, the season 1932/1933 in the Latvian national championship was the last season for zone of Liepaja (Liepāja conference). There were 2 clubs in Liepāja conference – "Olimpija" and "LTK" (Liepājas Tenisa Klubs; transl. Liepaja Tennis Club). The strongest team among them played against the winner of the Riga conference in the Latvian championship. The representatives of Liepāja clubs were not even consider as players of national team.)

(3) The game held in January 4 (season 1939/1939) likely was the last offical game in Latvia for J. Hviid. Descriptions of this game showed him as "tank" (newspaper "Sporta Pasaule" Jan.5,1939) and as "great reinforcement" (newspaper "Rīts" Jan.5,1939).

But it was not only one game for Hviid in this season. Hviid as player of Union took a part in Lightning-Tornament in December 26, 1938. "Unions" had 2 games in frames of the tournament and both was lost: 1) vs "ASK" 0:3 (like preliminary round); 2) vs "LSB" 0:1 (game for the 3rd place). The newspaper „Sporta Pasaule” (Dec. 27, 1938) wrote that arrived from abroad Hviid is considered as a "the most remarkable strength" of the "Unions" team.

But it would be remeber that Lightning-Tournament games are not really "fit" for the official statistics, due to the format of Lightning-Tournament games (1-2 days) was shortened playing time and other irregularities to traditional rules. In Lightning-Tournament held in December 1938 game lasted 2x10 min. (instead of 3x15 min. as in the LIHG (IIHF) rules). Only a game fot the 1st place of tournament was a little longer – 2x15 min. Of course, the game could last longer if overtime was necessary. In addition, in the 1930s there were cases when the winner of some games in Lightning-Tournament was determined by raffle ...

There is a possibility that in the season 1938/1939 J. Hviid has had some – test or training game. This season had started relatively early. The main skating rinks in Riga ("ASK", "LSB", "US" ice rinks) for visitors were already available December 16, 17 (1938), around that time hockey players began their training. "Unions" hockey players started trainings around December 20, when it was intended the arrival of all the "Unions" hockey players in their own hockey rink (shows newspaper "Rigasche Rundschau" December 19 and 20, 1938). In theory, it is possible that even before the beginning of the season, J. Hviid played some test games as player of "Unions". I have found any evidence about it in the Latvian and in the German that time press. (In the end of December 1938 test game among "Unions-2" and "LSB-2" took a place. Hviid didn't take a part in it.

(4) I have plans to see deeper the matters of complectation of the national team in the beginning of 1939. Then I will be able to answer in more detail. Also previously formation of the Latvian ice hockey team has not been perfect, but I think there were other reasons for outstanding of J. Hviid.

(5) Possibly it could be useful small insight for Hviids' bussines in Latvia (Rigasche Rundschau, May 14, 1938):
http://www.periodika.lv/periodika2-v...53|issueType:P

(6) Thanks for the information. And I will be glad to read about new discoveries. Particularly regard to Jørgen Hviid’s life.

Andris, petrovich27@inbox.lv

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