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Old
09-24-2012, 08:49 AM
  #51
AwesomePanthers
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
the word "elite" gets thrown out there wayyyy too much,he has the potentiel to be a good NHL'er but nowhere near ELITE players like Sid,Geno etc
With the way he is playing and dominating college, yes.. he has elite talent. Watch him play, and you'll see it.

And lol at people saying Plec is what Bjugstad is hoping to become.

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09-24-2012, 08:50 AM
  #52
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I think the idea of Plekanec to the Hawks fits better. He's arguably a specific piece to address a specific need that at least might help put the Hawks back over the top. Whereas if the Panthers are contenders, I'm not sure that Plekanec is quite the specific need to get them there to the same extent, which would diminish his relative value to them.

Anyway, it's a non-starter for the Habs, since Bjugstad is "just a prospect", however good a prospect he is. Even if it was Bjugstad+1st, I'd pass from the Habs POV. At least unless as prescribed it was deadline time (with the Habs on the outs) *and* Bjugstad had stepped up into a more elite prospect level and/or the 1st was looking like it had some solid potential to be a high end pick (which probably would be counter to the likelihood of Florida wanting to deal for Plekanec at the deadline anyway). I've seen better scenarios for a Plekanec deal from other teams in other threads.

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09-24-2012, 08:58 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
With the way he is playing and dominating college, yes.. he has elite talent. Watch him play, and you'll see it.

And lol at people saying Plec is what Bjugstad is hoping to become.
I guess it depends on your definition of elite. Elite for me is Giroux, Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin, Karlsson, Weber etc.

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09-24-2012, 09:55 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Why is everyone taking offense? I only meant that if Tallon felt that it was time to start converting futures into proven assets, then he might be interested. Seeing as that's probably not the case, and he's still waiting on prospects to develop, I don't think he'd do it.
Take a look back at what you wrote and you'll understand why a Panther fan might take offense. I wouldn't trade Florida's next five years for the Canadians because of:

The difference in prospects

The fact that Florida way out-performed Montreal LAST SEASON. The Panthers WON THEIR DIVISION last year and you PUT THEM DOWN.

You can't take cheap shots at another team (i.e.-IF they want to compete . . .) and then feel put upon when someone calls you on it. They didn't need Luongo to win their division and they didn't need Plekanec to win their division. And with the talent pool they have coming along they won't need either to make a Cup run in a few years.

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09-24-2012, 10:03 AM
  #55
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Who the **** is Nick Bjugstad?

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09-24-2012, 10:12 AM
  #56
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I don't understand all the backlash, the proposal isn't really that bad Plekanec is a proven 2nd line center, which is probably what Bjugstad will become. To the guy that said we will be competing aka; trading prospects for established players; it has been stated over and over and then over again that we will not be trading prospects. For that reason, and due to the enormous size that Bjugstad brings I can't see this trade happening.

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09-24-2012, 11:11 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
With the way he is playing and dominating college, yes.. he has elite talent. Watch him play, and you'll see it.

And lol at people saying Plec is what Bjugstad is hoping to become.
Elite players dominate the NHL not college hockey and Pleks is already proven a top 2nd line center in the NHL and one of the best PK'er.if ur prospect can become anything like him you will be more then happy

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09-24-2012, 12:53 PM
  #58
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Let me try to bring some sanity to this discussion. Some of my panther brethren just don't explain themselves in the best of ways at times (especially when people taking indirect jabs at the team about competing when they won their division last year, or when people claim we overvalue our prospects when most people have not said such a thing).

Is Pleks worth a relatively sought after prospect in a vacuum? Sure. If a relatively highly regarded prospect turned into a 60pt 2-way center whose excellent on the PK, is that a success. Most definitely. However, this isn't a vacuum... its real life. And for the Panthers, the value isn't there. Anyone with half a brain could watch our team last season and know that we lacked offense, and our centers were too small. Weiss, Goc, Matthias... these aren't overly big bodies with an offensive touch. In fact the only one with any proven offense is Weiss, and he is in many ways a carbon copy of Pleks. While Weiss is great in his own right, a Weiss-Pleks combo as your top 2 centers could be the smallest duo in hockey, and that's not good for long term success. And Goc is one of the best defensive centers in hockey.

Bjugstad has the potential to bring offense, and is definitely bringing a big body (the kid is like an oak tree on skates). Unless Pleks can forfeit his defensive prow-less for another 10-15 pts a season and suddenly get significantly taller and bulkier... the value just isn't there to the Panthers organization. Because of what we already have, Bjugstad turning into Pleks would be a disappointment. Not because Bjugstad is suppose to be better, but hes suppose to be different. We want a big body with offense, not someone comparable to Weiss and Goc (defensively).

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09-24-2012, 12:58 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
With the way he is playing and dominating college, yes.. he has elite talent. Watch him play, and you'll see it.

And lol at people saying Plec is what Bjugstad is hoping to become.
Just because you dominate in Juniors or in college, it does not mean that's what he's going to do in the NHL.

I have no idea why people think that. There have been many players who have good stats in those places and don't come to the NHL and dominate. I swear, every player drafted is going to be an "elite" player according to their fans. Rarely does it work out like that.

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09-24-2012, 01:15 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
With the way he is playing and dominating college, yes.. he has elite talent. Watch him play, and you'll see it.

And lol at people saying Plec is what Bjugstad is hoping to become.
Maybe its due to the fact he could crack the NHL but wanted to stay behind in College & win a championship? He is clearly physically dominating kids if he had the ability to play against grown men. Also that doesn't mean that will continue to happen in the NHL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by theboss View Post
Who the **** is Nick Bjugstad?
Don't you know that he is the next elite player?

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Old
09-24-2012, 01:21 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
Take a look back at what you wrote and you'll understand why a Panther fan might take offense. I wouldn't trade Florida's next five years for the Canadians because of:

The difference in prospects

The fact that Florida way out-performed Montreal LAST SEASON. The Panthers WON THEIR DIVISION last year and you PUT THEM DOWN.

You can't take cheap shots at another team (i.e.-IF they want to compete . . .) and then feel put upon when someone calls you on it. They didn't need Luongo to win their division and they didn't need Plekanec to win their division. And with the talent pool they have coming along they won't need either to make a Cup run in a few years.
Huh ? Where did you come up with this one ? Were you asleep for the last 4 years before that ? Seems to me 2 years ago we were in the conference finals, no ? How about our prospects, albeit a little thinner than Florida's. Talk to me about our prospects, seeing as you know so much about them. Please share some examples of Montreal's weak prospects.

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09-24-2012, 01:24 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
With the way he is playing and dominating college, yes.. he has elite talent. Watch him play, and you'll see it.

And lol at people saying Plec is what Bjugstad is hoping to become.
Wow than seeing as the Juniors in Canada is stringer than the college ranks. We have a doozy in Gallagher.
Check out these stats baby over the 3 years he was there....

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=116134

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09-24-2012, 02:00 PM
  #63
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Both teams say no.

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Old
09-24-2012, 03:11 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by dbhislife View Post
Let me try to bring some sanity to this discussion. Some of my panther brethren just don't explain themselves in the best of ways at times (especially when people taking indirect jabs at the team about competing when they won their division last year, or when people claim we overvalue our prospects when most people have not said such a thing).

Is Pleks worth a relatively sought after prospect in a vacuum? Sure. If a relatively highly regarded prospect turned into a 60pt 2-way center whose excellent on the PK, is that a success. Most definitely. However, this isn't a vacuum... its real life. And for the Panthers, the value isn't there. Anyone with half a brain could watch our team last season and know that we lacked offense, and our centers were too small. Weiss, Goc, Matthias... these aren't overly big bodies with an offensive touch. In fact the only one with any proven offense is Weiss, and he is in many ways a carbon copy of Pleks. While Weiss is great in his own right, a Weiss-Pleks combo as your top 2 centers could be the smallest duo in hockey, and that's not good for long term success. And Goc is one of the best defensive centers in hockey.

Bjugstad has the potential to bring offense, and is definitely bringing a big body (the kid is like an oak tree on skates). Unless Pleks can forfeit his defensive prow-less for another 10-15 pts a season and suddenly get significantly taller and bulkier... the value just isn't there to the Panthers organization. Because of what we already have, Bjugstad turning into Pleks would be a disappointment. Not because Bjugstad is suppose to be better, but hes suppose to be different. We want a big body with offense, not someone comparable to Weiss and Goc (defensively).
This post should end any discussion since Habs fans should easily be able to sympathize with this position considering ours and our views of Galchenyuk. Habs fans believe Plekanec is worth more (I kow I do), but Panthers fans are clear in communicating that Bjugstad fills a NEED for their team that Plekanec does not:size and offensive ability. We Habs fans can completely understand that since we woldn't trade Galchenyuk for Weiss (although I believe Plekanec is better than Weiss, so the comparables are not exact. They are close enough to be fair, though.). Plekanec is great, but not if he is paired with another small center. As Blind Gardien has stated, we would be better served looking elsewhere for a team that has a need for a Plekanec type of player. Florida is not the team.

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Old
09-24-2012, 03:15 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
This post should end any discussion since Habs fans should easily be able to sympathize with this position considering ours and our views of Galchenyuk. Habs fans believe Plekanec is worth more (I kow I do), but Panthers fans are clear in communicating that Bjugstad fills a NEED for their team that Plekanec does not:size and offensive ability. We Habs fans can completely understand that since we woldn't trade Galchenyuk for Weiss (although I believe Plekanec is better than Weiss, so the comparables are not exact. They are close enough to be fair, though.). Plekanec is great, but not if he is paired with another small center. As Blind Gardien has stated, we would be better served looking elsewhere for a team that has a need for a Plekanec type of player. Florida is not the team.
Logic appreciates Logic. Good day kind sir. Thanks for understanding lol

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09-24-2012, 03:28 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
This post should end any discussion since Habs fans should easily be able to sympathize with this position considering ours and our views of Galchenyuk. Habs fans believe Plekanec is worth more (I kow I do), but Panthers fans are clear in communicating that Bjugstad fills a NEED for their team that Plekanec does not:size and offensive ability. We Habs fans can completely understand that since we woldn't trade Galchenyuk for Weiss (although I believe Plekanec is better than Weiss, so the comparables are not exact. They are close enough to be fair, though.). Plekanec is great, but not if he is paired with another small center. As Blind Gardien has stated, we would be better served looking elsewhere for a team that has a need for a Plekanec type of player. Florida is not the team.
If only that was true, my friend. If there is one thing that pretty much is a sure shot on HF Trade Forums, Logic is a useless as Mike Milbury. Sad but true. Keep up the good fight.

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Old
09-24-2012, 03:28 PM
  #67
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Huh ? Where did you come up with this one ? Were you asleep for the last 4 years before that ? Seems to me 2 years ago we were in the conference finals, no ? How about our prospects, albeit a little thinner than Florida's. Talk to me about our prospects, seeing as you know so much about them. Please share some examples of Montreal's weak prospects.
You're right, Mon did make the finals two seasons ago, but I think what my fellow Panther fan is stating is that we really get no respect around the league, especially from Canadian teams. From the beginning of this thread, it was assumed that Fla would be at the bottom of the Eastern Conference and Mon would be somewhere in the middle, which does sound disrespectful to us Panther fans. Whether it was meant in that way or not, The Panthers never get the respect they deserve, even though we had a great season last season. Our club has been run very poorly before Tallon and Co. showed up, but now we have a whole new team with a whole new attitude. Also, I don't want to sound bias but the Panthers always seen to play very well against Mon.
What I got from Leeroggy's comments were that the Panthers did make it to the playoffs as SE Champs, and did it without Pleks and Luongo. I don't know if Leeroggy was bashing those two players in particular, but merely making a statement that we didn't need them to win. He also wasn't comparing our prospects to yours (at least in the response Leeroggy gave that you responded too), but I do know as a Panther fan that our prospect pool is the best in the NHL, and we have a lot of great, great youth that will be making the lineup in the near future that will help us win a Cup. While I wouldn't mind Luongo, we do have a lot of offensive help on the way in Bjugstad, Howden, Huberdeau (this season,whenever it starts) and Grimaldi. We don't need to add Pleks because we have a player such as Weiss who is comparable, and losing Bjugstad means losing a BIG BIG center that we are in desprite need for.

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09-24-2012, 03:39 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by dbhislife View Post
Let me try to bring some sanity to this discussion. Some of my panther brethren just don't explain themselves in the best of ways at times (especially when people taking indirect jabs at the team about competing when they won their division last year, or when people claim we overvalue our prospects when most people have not said such a thing).

Is Pleks worth a relatively sought after prospect in a vacuum? Sure. If a relatively highly regarded prospect turned into a 60pt 2-way center whose excellent on the PK, is that a success. Most definitely. However, this isn't a vacuum... its real life. And for the Panthers, the value isn't there. Anyone with half a brain could watch our team last season and know that we lacked offense, and our centers were too small. Weiss, Goc, Matthias... these aren't overly big bodies with an offensive touch. In fact the only one with any proven offense is Weiss, and he is in many ways a carbon copy of Pleks. While Weiss is great in his own right, a Weiss-Pleks combo as your top 2 centers could be the smallest duo in hockey, and that's not good for long term success. And Goc is one of the best defensive centers in hockey.

Bjugstad has the potential to bring offense, and is definitely bringing a big body (the kid is like an oak tree on skates). Unless Pleks can forfeit his defensive prow-less for another 10-15 pts a season and suddenly get significantly taller and bulkier... the value just isn't there to the Panthers organization. Because of what we already have, Bjugstad turning into Pleks would be a disappointment. Not because Bjugstad is suppose to be better, but hes suppose to be different. We want a big body with offense, not someone comparable to Weiss and Goc (defensively).
Great post I understand completely let's end thread and move on!

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Old
09-24-2012, 03:44 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theboss View Post
Who the **** is Nick Bjugstad?
Apparently he's either Floridas next big elite player ahead of Huberdeau, Markstrom and Grimaldi or he could end up being the next Benoit Pouliot

Also, good post, db

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09-24-2012, 03:47 PM
  #70
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Great post I understand completely let's end thread and move on!
2nd compliment of the day and I only made one informative post!

::man hug::

EDIT:: 3 compliments! TY sawyer

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Old
09-24-2012, 03:52 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
With the way he is playing and dominating college, yes.. he has elite talent. Watch him play, and you'll see it.

And lol at people saying Plec is what Bjugstad is hoping to become.
Can't wait to lol 5 years from now when Bjugstad is fighting for a 4th line spot, playing for his 3rd NHL team, while Plekanec is still putting up 60-70 point seasons.

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Old
09-24-2012, 03:53 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
Take a look back at what you wrote and you'll understand why a Panther fan might take offense. I wouldn't trade Florida's next five years for the Canadians because of:

The difference in prospects

The fact that Florida way out-performed Montreal LAST SEASON. The Panthers WON THEIR DIVISION last year and you PUT THEM DOWN.

You can't take cheap shots at another team (i.e.-IF they want to compete . . .) and then feel put upon when someone calls you on it. They didn't need Luongo to win their division and they didn't need Plekanec to win their division. And with the talent pool they have coming along they won't need either to make a Cup run in a few years.
I'm sorry if it appeared I was degrading your team in some way, all I meant is at some point Florida may decide to start trading for veterans like Plekanec fo a cup run(similar to LA with Carter/Richards), so if that point in time was now, then they may consider it. If you think about it, LA probably lost those trades, apart from the fact they won the cup. At some point Tallon may decide to do the same thing, but as I said, I don't think now's the time.

If you seem intent on spinning my words to be malicious, then that's your prerogative, I guess.


Last edited by Vankiller Whale: 09-24-2012 at 04:21 PM.
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Old
09-24-2012, 03:58 PM
  #73
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BTW, didn't Brock Nelson have a better statistical year than Bjugstad?

As an Islander fan, I'd be f***ing ecstatic if Nelson ends up reaching Plekanec's level.

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09-24-2012, 04:34 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
Elite players dominate the NHL not college hockey and Pleks is already proven a top 2nd line center in the NHL and one of the best PK'er.if ur prospect can become anything like him you will be more then happy
So you are saying that elite players never dominated in college?

Yeah, that would be good, but Bjugstads upside is scary high. Getzlaf clone.

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09-24-2012, 04:45 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
I don't understand all the backlash, the proposal isn't really that bad Plekanec is a proven 2nd line center, which is probably what Bjugstad will become. To the guy that said we will be competing aka; trading prospects for established players; it has been stated over and over and then over again that we will not be trading prospects. For that reason, and due to the enormous size that Bjugstad brings I can't see this trade happening.
I think this is a fair response. If the Panthers are not interested in dealing away promising prospects for current help (top-end 2nd line centerman) then that all but squashes this proposal. I think value wise its not bad (Pleks for Bjugstad).

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