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Old
10-05-2012, 03:55 PM
  #251
Bryanbryoil
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
I love how you judge Josefson only by offense during an injury riddled season. He is an elite defensive center at the NHL level. I'm sure soft minute Hopkins will love to play against him and Larsson.

Tedenby didn't have much of a supporting cast last season. He was sent down to work on defense and get confidence up. You give him centers like Henrique or Josefson with a fresh season and I'm sure he will be near a PPG.

You clearly discount Butler and Parse, players if healthy are normally PPG players at the AHL level.

I have no doubt in my mind Albany's "middling" prospects can more than hold their own or even beat Oklahoma this year. Players in the Devils system are taught defense and how to actually win in the playoffs.
I recalled you being one of his biggest detractors in his draft year, I guess you need more crow to fill your belly? Any pro team can beat another pro team, however if these clubs meet and they are both healthy, Albany is in deep ****. As for making the playoffs, Albany didn't last year and OKC did, so unless you are talking about the NHL clubs it isn't relevant. And even if you are, let's see how NJ does without Parise and eventually Brodeur while the Oilers kids mature.

As for Butler if 33 points in 47 AHL games = point per game then I guess I need a math refresher as math has really changed since my school days. The math that I was taught says that he's been a .70 points/game guy. Parse was 1 point/game for 14 games in his last AHL season, but the season before he had 39 points in 70 games, hardly a guarantee for a point/game IMO. Using your math I could say that OKC will have Paajarvi, Hartikainen, Green, Byers, and Arcobello as point/game guys along with Hall, RNH, and Eberle. But hey, I guess your cast of Selke and Norris winners will shut them right down.

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Old
10-05-2012, 03:56 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
The Oklahoma City Barons scare the hell out of me and they're in the Marlies conference. Hopefully all the star young kids get the nod to play in the World Juniors, especially with it happening relatively early in the season where no AHL team will be bidding for a playoff race yet.
Only RNH is eligible for the WJC's.

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10-05-2012, 04:21 PM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I recalled you being one of his biggest detractors in his draft year, I guess you need more crow to fill your belly? Any pro team can beat another pro team, however if these clubs meet and they are both healthy, Albany is in deep ****. As for making the playoffs, Albany didn't last year and OKC did, so unless you are talking about the NHL clubs it isn't relevant. And even if you are, let's see how NJ does without Parise and eventually Brodeur while the Oilers kids mature.

As for Butler if 33 points in 47 AHL games = point per game then I guess I need a math refresher as math has really changed since my school days. The math that I was taught says that he's been a .70 points/game guy. Parse was 1 point/game for 14 games in his last AHL season, but the season before he had 39 points in 70 games, hardly a guarantee for a point/game IMO. Using your math I could say that OKC will have Paajarvi, Hartikainen, Green, Byers, and Arcobello as point/game guys along with Hall, RNH, and Eberle. But hey, I guess your cast of Selke and Norris winners will shut them right down.
I guess you missed the "if healthy" part. Math maybe your strong suit, comprehension isn't.

Let's see how Hopkins does against real competition, with less offensive zone starts and a normal on ice sh%. Maybe they are developing him to be a Briere type center.

I'm sure the Rangers were saying that in 02/03, how did that work out? Team defense is unlimitedly more important than individual talent. Down the middle Albany has Henrique and Josefson with Larsson on the back end, they won't have much of a problem shutting opposing teams.

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10-05-2012, 04:35 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
I guess you missed the "if healthy" part. Math maybe your strong suit, comprehension isn't.

Let's see how Hopkins does against real competition, with less offensive zone starts and a normal on ice sh%. Maybe they are developing him to be a Briere type center.

I'm sure the Rangers were saying that in 02/03, how did that work out? Team defense is unlimitedly more important than individual talent. Down the middle Albany has Henrique and Josefson with Larsson on the back end, they won't have much of a problem shutting opposing teams.
Are you seriously saying that a guy who just put up .84 PPG in the NHL as a 170 pound 18 year old rookie needs to see some "real competition" referring to an AHL team with some good young prospects?



Wow

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10-05-2012, 04:43 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
I'm sure soft minute Hopkins will love to play against him and Larsson.
Yes im sure after a season in the NHL RNH is having nightmares over the fact that he has to face Larsson and Josefson in the A

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10-05-2012, 05:37 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Second best regular season team then, happy now? Who are the Marlies adding;bringing back this year? Gardiner, Frattin, and who else?
Keith Aucoin?

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10-05-2012, 05:39 PM
  #257
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Barons, Bulldogs, Marlies, Sound Tigers, Phantoms are teams that come to mind

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10-05-2012, 06:20 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Are you seriously saying that a guy who just put up .84 PPG in the NHL as a 170 pound 18 year old rookie needs to see some "real competition" referring to an AHL team with some good young prospects?



Wow
No, Hopkins will likely tear apart the AHL along with Eberle and Hall. I do believe even at the NHL level Josefson would be the center to go out against Hopkins if the season were to start today. I feel comfortable with that matchup at the AHL level as well.

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10-05-2012, 07:03 PM
  #259
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10-05-2012, 07:53 PM
  #260
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Old
10-05-2012, 09:04 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
I guess you missed the "if healthy" part. Math maybe your strong suit, comprehension isn't.

Let's see how Hopkins does against real competition, with less offensive zone starts and a normal on ice sh%. Maybe they are developing him to be a Briere type center.

I'm sure the Rangers were saying that in 02/03, how did that work out? Team defense is unlimitedly more important than individual talent. Down the middle Albany has Henrique and Josefson with Larsson on the back end, they won't have much of a problem shutting opposing teams.
Save your rel corsi, zone start and OnSh% garbage for the statzi crowd.

Nobody buys that crock of crap here.

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10-05-2012, 10:27 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Are you seriously saying that a guy who just put up .84 PPG in the NHL as a 170 pound 18 year old rookie needs to see some "real competition" referring to an AHL team with some good young prospects?



Wow
Yeah, with any luck next season he can play in the ECHL and really get tested.

That guy needs to quit while he's ahead*

*behind.

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10-05-2012, 10:34 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
I guess you missed the "if healthy" part. Math maybe your strong suit, comprehension isn't.

Let's see how Hopkins does against real competition, with less offensive zone starts and a normal on ice sh%. Maybe they are developing him to be a Briere type center.

I'm sure the Rangers were saying that in 02/03, how did that work out? Team defense is unlimitedly more important than individual talent. Down the middle Albany has Henrique and Josefson with Larsson on the back end, they won't have much of a problem shutting opposing teams.
Yes because neither were close to PPG AHLers it means that they will be on this magical Albany team that plays the best defense in the hockey world today.

As for RNH, you should track his on ice shooting % in the AHL, because I can tell you now, it's going to be through the roof. You saying that RNH will be a Briere type center once again shows me your lack of scouting ability as RNH is already a pretty good 2 way center. As for team defense, Albany gave up 226 goals last season while OKC gave up 176, so you can think whatever you want to, but the Barons are a 2 way team and have a lot more talent than the Devils do so your goose is cooked no matter which stats, real or exaggerated you decide to use.

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10-05-2012, 10:36 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
No, Hopkins will likely tear apart the AHL along with Eberle and Hall. I do believe even at the NHL level Josefson would be the center to go out against Hopkins if the season were to start today. I feel comfortable with that matchup at the AHL level as well.
You can feel as comfortable as you want, RNH has torched a lot better players than Josefson in his young NHL career.

And oh yeah, I nearly forgot, OKC beat the Houston Aeros 4-0 in their preseason game without RNH, Eberle, Hall, Paajarvi, Green, Byers, Pitlick, Marincin, Plante, and Danis while Houston iced some of their top players including Granlund. Brodin, Coyle, Phillips, and Hackett, I guess this would mean something to you, for me it's a meaningless preseason game. http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|EDM|home


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10-05-2012, 10:45 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by noahhabib View Post
Barons, Bulldogs, Marlies, Sound Tigers, Phantoms are teams that come to mind
You are aware that they lost to Albany this preseason right? Even without their big guns? The Phantoms are toast

All joking aside, those should all be pretty good teams.

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10-05-2012, 11:42 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Only RNH is eligible for the WJC's.
I actually meant that part in the general sense. Regardless of the NHL team or nationality, it's the opportunity for NHL prospects with star potential to play in the WJC when they would otherwise be busy playing in the NHL. Though, I'm not sure how many of these prospects would realistically make their NHL teams this season so I spoke generally to cover my bases, lol.

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10-06-2012, 08:49 AM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
You can feel as comfortable as you want, RNH has torched a lot better players than Josefson in his young NHL career.

And oh yeah, I nearly forgot, OKC beat the Houston Aeros 4-0 in their preseason game without RNH, Eberle, Hall, Paajarvi, Green, Byers, Pitlick, Marincin, Plante, and Danis while Houston iced some of their top players including Granlund. Brodin, Coyle, Phillips, and Hackett, I guess this would mean something to you, for me it's a meaningless preseason game. http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|EDM|home
Most of Hopkins torching was against weak competition and on the PP. He was not effective as a 1st line center 5 ON 5. He was barely productive enough to be considered a 2nd line center 5 on 5. That's my last post on the topic, I hope they meet before the lockout ends.

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10-06-2012, 09:03 AM
  #268
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Wow some people prove that anyone can be a scout

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10-06-2012, 11:16 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Most of Hopkins torching was against weak competition and on the PP. He was not effective as a 1st line center 5 ON 5. He was barely productive enough to be considered a 2nd line center 5 on 5. That's my last post on the topic, I hope they meet before the lockout ends.
same here. hopkins would tear his ass apart

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10-06-2012, 11:28 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Most of Hopkins torching was against weak competition and on the PP. He was not effective as a 1st line center 5 ON 5. He was barely productive enough to be considered a 2nd line center 5 on 5. That's my last post on the topic, I hope they meet before the lockout ends.
And you can tell all that by watching him play?

Naw. Didnt think so.

I couldve sworn I saw him out there against Weber and Suter, Lidstrom, I guess they are considered "weak competition".

What is considered weak competition?

What is considered strong competition?

Is it better to go up against the teams best scoring line or the teams best shutdown line?

Im sure other team's were looking to matchup up their fourth line plugs against Hopkins, Hall and Eberle, because they were more concerned with stopping the likes of Horcoff and Gagner.

Isnt that right?

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10-06-2012, 01:25 PM
  #271
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Who has the most depth? Marlies? I know barons look the best in terms of high end.

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10-06-2012, 02:12 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I couldve sworn I saw him out there against Weber and Suter, Lidstrom, I guess they are considered "weak competition".
Hilariously, according to older models of QoC, they are. Duncan Keith too.

However, using a newer model it becomes clear that Hall/RNH/Eberle were drawing the opponents best D and second best forwards.

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10-06-2012, 05:39 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Most of Hopkins torching was against weak competition and on the PP. He was not effective as a 1st line center 5 ON 5. He was barely productive enough to be considered a 2nd line center 5 on 5. That's my last post on the topic, I hope they meet before the lockout ends.
He torched Weber and Suter (likely the weakest D pairing in the league last year) and Trotz was getting on Mike Fisher for RNH torching him, I guess Fisher is dog meat too? RNH was facing the teams best defensive players unless you are of the belief that Sam Gagner and Shawn Horcoff are greater threats, and if you do then I won't waste another second replying to you.

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Originally Posted by NeilYoung View Post
Wow some people prove that anyone can be a scout
Who's a scout here? I'm just a fan of the game that has enough common sense to realize that RNH was the BPA in the '11 draft and that he'd light Josefson up like a Christmas tree. Scouts would have the brains to see that RNH is an elite talent though, at least any scout worth anything.

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Originally Posted by Oillio View Post
same here. hopkins would tear his ass apart
Pretty much this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
And you can tell all that by watching him play?

Naw. Didnt think so.

I couldve sworn I saw him out there against Weber and Suter, Lidstrom, I guess they are considered "weak competition".

What is considered weak competition?

What is considered strong competition?

Is it better to go up against the teams best scoring line or the teams best shutdown line?

Im sure other team's were looking to matchup up their fourth line plugs against Hopkins, Hall and Eberle, because they were more concerned with stopping the likes of Horcoff and Gagner.

Isnt that right?
I also remember him going head to head with the Landeskog line, Eric Staal line, and Getzlaf line, all scrubs I suppose?

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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Who has the most depth? Marlies? I know barons look the best in terms of high end.
I can't speak for TO's depth as I am not as familiar with their prospects as I am OKC's, however the Barons are insanely deep at forward, have the reigning AHL goalie of the year in net, have some guys that will likely get some NHL games in their career (Schultz, Fedun, Teubert, Marincin, and Plante). I don't know enough of other teams to say that we have the best D depth in the league or even top 5-10 etc., but considering that I think that Plante (an AHL allstar last year) is likely our 4th or 5th best D this season I think that we'll be doing alright in that department.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
Hilariously, according to older models of QoC, they are. Duncan Keith too.

However, using a newer model it becomes clear that Hall/RNH/Eberle were drawing the opponents best D and second best forwards.
Well then I guess we know which statistical method has some actual weight to it, and which one is better suited for ass wipe.

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Old
10-06-2012, 06:39 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
Hilariously, according to older models of QoC, they are. Duncan Keith too.

However, using a newer model it becomes clear that Hall/RNH/Eberle were drawing the opponents best D and second best forwards.
So its being changed yet again.

I stopped paying attention when their Qualcomp was based off +/- and Matt Cooke was much tougher competition than Malkin.

Well, that's not really fair since I never paid attention in the first place.

You know what I mean.

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10-06-2012, 06:45 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Most of Hopkins torching was against weak competition and on the PP. He was not effective as a 1st line center 5 ON 5. He was barely productive enough to be considered a 2nd line center 5 on 5. That's my last post on the topic, I hope they meet before the lockout ends.


RNH = elite talent
Josefson = your ordinary third (maybe at best.. second) liner

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