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Old
09-24-2012, 05:28 PM
  #1
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2013 Draft Discussion Thread

CSS and TSN have both released their preliminary draft rankings recently.

NHL Central Scouting

Preliminary North American Rankings: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=83207

Preliminary European Rankings: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=83210

TSN Pre-Season Rankings: http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9600

Assuming there's a season, I figure we'll pick somewhere between 17 and 24. It's a pretty deep draft so there should be a talent available (and we might get lucky again if someone drops like Teuvo did).

If Fucale w/ the Mooseheads has a very good year, it might be worth it to take him in the first round (if he's available).

CHL players I'm excited to watch this year include MacKinnon, Drouin, Fucale, Domi, Horvat, Monahan, Shinkaruk, Bowey, Lazar, and Jones.

Talk about all things 2013 draft-related here.

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09-24-2012, 05:45 PM
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Where do we go if they fix the lockout draft for us?

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09-25-2012, 09:08 AM
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I mean, really, why the **** didn't we give up our 2nd and 3rd this past year for Oduya? Even that would have been too much but it wouldn't have mattered much in that draft. In this draft, this could go down as one of those trades that becomes a trivia question.

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09-25-2012, 09:37 AM
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Exactly. When I questioned Stanís stupidity at the time, more than a few here defended Stan and dismissed the 2nd and 3rd picks as no big deal. The rationale was that 2nd and 3rd round picks seldom amount to much. Well, it was then and it still is a big deal. The 2013 draft was widely forecasted to have a strong cast and that also has not changed. In one of his first deals after going to Winnipeg, a chuckling Chevaldayov proved his worth by fleecing the team he had just left.

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09-25-2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I mean, really, why the **** didn't we give up our 2nd and 3rd this past year for Oduya? Even that would have been too much but it wouldn't have mattered much in that draft. In this draft, this could go down as one of those trades that becomes a trivia question.
There's a rather obvious answer to that question. The 2013 draft was more then a year away at the time of the 2012 trade deadline. The Hawks scouting staff had spent months scouting the 2012 draft eligible players; they had a good idea of the depth of the draft, the talent tiers and what groups of players should be available in what rounds. Obviously, Bowman and co. are/were going to be more comfortable holding the set of picks they'd spent almost a year scouting than the picks that were more than a year away.

I'm a huge fan of the 2013 draft class. I suggested trading Chicago's 2012 1st round pick to a team like Calgary for their 2013 pick before the draft because I didn't think much of anyone in the Hawks range. In being a huge fan of the 2013 draft class, I'd still be okay with giving up a 2nd and a 3rd for Oduya or a simular Dman again. I don't care if people don't want to acknowledge it: Johnny Oduya had a very positive impact on Chicago on the whole. He had a bad playoffs, no one's saying he didn't, but he helped the transition game alot after he was aquired and was a big reason why Chicago was able to make a push at the end of the season, with Toews out, and challenge for home-ice.

Assuming Chicago holds onto their 2013 first, they will be adding another great prospect to the pool in 2013. It would've been nice to have a 2nd round pick, depending on how the back half of that round turns out.. but Chicago has alot of prospects of the caliber you'd find in the 50-60 range, even of a strong draft.

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09-25-2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
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Exactly. When I questioned Stanís stupidity at the time, more than a few here defended Stan and dismissed the 2nd and 3rd picks as no big deal. The rationale was that 2nd and 3rd round picks seldom amount to much. Well, it was then and it still is a big deal. The 2013 draft was widely forecasted to have a strong cast and that also has not changed. In one of his first deals after going to Winnipeg, a chuckling Chevaldayov proved his worth by fleecing the team he had just left.
He "fleeced" a team by aquiring two picks, that he's yet to select anyone with?

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09-25-2012, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
He "fleeced" a team by aquiring two picks, that he's yet to select anyone with?
Just to throw it out there for everyone, at this time in 2011 the 2012 draft was being talked about the same way that the 2013 draft is now. Who knows what will happen between now and the 2013 draft.

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09-25-2012, 10:02 AM
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Oduya was dangled because he was not going to be re-signed by Jets at year end. He wasn’t worth the contract he would want.. Stan should have known that he could have acquired him for much less. Why he even went after him in the first place is questionable, but that’s another topic.
As for the 2 picks. Of course time will tell, but Coldice is right when he says those 2 picks could end up as prominent NHL’ers one day. It was a terrible deal for Hawks!

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09-25-2012, 10:09 AM
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The biggest error of all, and I'm not alone in saying it was repeated over and over at and after that deadline, is that Oduya wasn't even close to enough to put that team where it needed to be. Should have just played the season out and signed him in the offseason if Bowman wanted him so bad.

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09-25-2012, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Oduya was dangled because he was not going to be re-signed by Jets at year end. He wasnít worth the contract he would want.. Stan should have known that he could have acquired him for much less. Why he even went after him in the first place is questionable, but thatís another topic.
As for the 2 picks. Of course time will tell, but Coldice is right when he says those 2 picks could end up as prominent NHLíers one day. It was a terrible deal for Hawks!
Are you even thinking through what you're typing? There's more than Stan Bowman making calls at the deadline, and on top of that Bowman and his staff are making calls in the weeks leading up to the deadline; They did their homework. If Oduya could have been acquired for less, he would have been. You're not dealing from a position of strength as a buying team on Trade Deadline day.. Winnepeg waited for a deal they wanted and they got it, otherwise, they had no reason to move him.

People on this board tend to be very much in "win now" mode.. well, Chicago is a much, much better team with Johnny Oduya on the roster today as opposed to two prospects that won't sniff the NHL for 3-5 years after being drafted, (basically) a year from now.

As to the bolded: Bobby, what do you even know about the top-10 of the 2013 draft - nevermind kids that (at this point) look like they'll be selected in the 50-100 range?

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09-25-2012, 10:24 AM
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No matter how much better Oduya makes the Hawks, I felt pretty strongly that with Oduya and nothing else, that team was going down in the 1st round and I know I am not alone. Some people seem to think we could have won the Cup or even had a chance. Others were looking for a shopping spree at the deadline to make that a possibility and it clearly didn't happen.

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09-25-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
The biggest error of all, and I'm not alone in saying it was repeated over and over at and after that deadline, is that Oduya wasn't even close to enough to put that team where it needed to be. Should have just played the season out and signed him in the offseason if Bowman wanted him so bad.
And by giving up a couple picks, Oduya comes to your team for a couple months, finds a comfort level, and you're able to sign him for under market value. Even if those picks end up being incredible value, you'll just be adding a couple prospects to a pool that's started to/will be overflowing. I'm as big a prospect hoarder as you'll find, I'm sure some on this board can attest to it, and even I don't care much for the picks that were given up. I'd obviously like to have all 7 of Chicago's picks, but I'll take the top-4 Dman.

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09-25-2012, 10:31 AM
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I understand your point, it just doesn't mean **** unless we spend to the cap. Oduya may as well be making 5M a year. Bowman seems to be betting everything on a long lockout. We'll see. If being cheap and standing pat means a Perry or Getzlaf signing with the rest of the team staying in tact, then it will make sense.

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09-25-2012, 10:42 AM
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Wow, it only took two posts for this to turn into an Oduya thread.

That's gotta be some kind of record.

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09-25-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I understand your point, it just doesn't mean **** unless we spend to the cap. Oduya may as well be making 5M a year. Bowman seems to be betting everything on a long lockout. We'll see. If being cheap and standing pat means a Perry or Getzlaf signing with the rest of the team staying in tact, then it will make sense.
Why has it become the common belief that, in order for Chicago to really "contend", they need another star forward, or Dman? I'm not against Chicago signing another big-ticket forward/Dman.. I just don't think Chicago really needs it, in fact, I know they don't. Chicago has 4 first-line forwards. They have an elite checking centre. They have two #1 Dmen and a quality supporting cast on the back-end. They don't lack talent.

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09-25-2012, 10:47 AM
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It boils down to you overrating Oduya I guess. But what else is new? Your penchant for liking softies rears its head again… not to mention that Stan can do no wrong in your eyes. You actually think Oduya is good enough to be Hawks 4th dman? I don’t …. certainly not in physical games or in the intensity of the playoffs. I hope he proves me wrong, but I very much doubt it. I think the JO we saw in last years playoffs is it and that is why Jets wanted no part of re-signing him.

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09-25-2012, 10:49 AM
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First and foremost, they have to get the goaltending figured out. I think we are strong offensively but our forwards lack defensive skill. Our defense is good but not strong enough to make up for that, clearly. So either make the D strong by bringing in someone like Suter (that ship has sailed) or make the offense have the puck more, not that they are bad now but a big forward like that makes us elite again possession wise and a little better defensively. PP should be really good too.

The team as is just doesn't have a clear strength.

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09-25-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I mean, really, why the **** didn't we give up our 2nd and 3rd this past year for Oduya? Even that would have been too much but it wouldn't have mattered much in that draft. In this draft, this could go down as one of those trades that becomes a trivia question.
B/c 70% of the posters on each of the major fan boards were bichin last year about making a move to get someone. Hope the bichs are happy with Oduya.

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09-25-2012, 11:26 AM
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B/c 70% of the posters on each of the major fan boards were bichin last year about making a move to get someone. Hope the bichs are happy with Oduya.
That's not true at all, the people that were *****ing were not *****ing for "a move", they were *****ing for 3 or 4 moves (2C, D, G and 4th line C/F).

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09-25-2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
First and foremost, they have to get the goaltending figured out. I think we are strong offensively but our forwards lack defensive skill. Our defense is good but not strong enough to make up for that, clearly. So either make the D strong by bringing in someone like Suter (that ship has sailed) or make the offense have the puck more, not that they are bad now but a big forward like that makes us elite again possession wise and a little better defensively. PP should be really good too.

The team as is just doesn't have a clear strength.
I agree - but you can't get a quick fix at goal by drafting (any goalie is going to be a minimum of three years away - likely more).

If we're picking late in the first round again - then the question becomes unless we get lucky again and someone falls to us like last year, who should we be picking. There often isn't a clear cut BPA later on - so should we be taking our chances on someone like Fucale if he's there (and he might well not be) - or do we start looking more at need and trying to draft a D.

Incidentally, I don't think our problem at forward is as bad as some people say...honestly, it's the least of our concerns.

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09-25-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
That's not true at all, the people that were *****ing were not *****ing for "a move", they were *****ing for 3 or 4 moves (2C, D, G and 4th line C/F).
Lmao. No kidding, right.

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09-25-2012, 11:31 AM
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WEll,maybe STAN finally uses his first rounder on a top goalie prospect -but I doubt it---he wants to get away with cheap goalies so as to allocate to other positions ---that philosophy probably continues...draft a potential star goalie and after the ELC is up you gotta pay the moon if the kid becomes the franchise goalie...Nope--stan wants cheap goaltending...


So--- who to draft in this deep crop of talent ?

My target would bebig D-man NIKITA ZADOROV --London Knights 6'5 228---skates so weel,nice long reach to break up plays ,reacts and anticipates weell--- BONE CRUSHING OPEN ICE HITS ---CLEAN HITS ---nobody will skate with their head down when he's on shift -OR ELSE they will go into La-La Land...
Some question if his offense will develop? I expect progress over the season in that aspect--but London has so much talent and depth this year that he won't get featured PP minutes ---so it is pretty hard to pile up points without that--but still when London can rack up 8 goals a game probably often this season--you will collect points just from being on for some ES shifts...
STill--have not seen his "shot" --so can't say he'll ever be much of an offensive factor till he proves he can score with it from the point...On the other hand,he skates well and can lug the puck or dash in for an offensive thrust in the o-zone on occaision--the question is will these offensive bursts become more frequent as he gets more comfortable in taking more risk as the season progresses?
IF he does start scoring more in addition to his solid defense then he may RISE into the top ten and become out of our (expected) reach in the 17-24 range..
The other aspect to watch is if he fades as the long OHL season goes on--or elevates his game to an even higher level showing progrsssion as the season goes along...again if he shows to an even higher level verging on dominance
by season's end--that will also make him RISE in the rankings...

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09-25-2012, 11:42 AM
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Goalie is tough to draft unless you're thin at the prospect level which is debatable with the Hawks. Simpson, Markstrom, Whitney, et al. Of course a clear cut #1 should be an upgrade.

Theres only 2 slots in the AHL. For the most part, the ECHL is not realistic. Then that leaves the incumbent (Hutton for now) and the backup.

IMO, goalies do not peak until about 26 which is a long development cycle.

Since the Hawks squandered the #2 and #3. If the Hawks draft Frucale, better be pretty certain he works out. Of course nothing is guaranteed. As long as they dont ask Dumas's opinion.

Im not against drafting a goalie like Frucale. Is he better than last years crop of Dansk, Subban and the Russian?

Dont like rolling the dice with Russians, at least with the first pick.

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09-25-2012, 03:45 PM
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Full season lockout and the hawks ink Mackinnon

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09-25-2012, 03:54 PM
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Full season lockout and the hawks ink Mackinnon
I'd cry from happiness

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