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Katz and Group Including Gretzky in Seattle *Oilers*

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Old
09-29-2012, 03:17 PM
  #476
htpwn
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Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
Depends on the size and share of the local cable deal you get? If Wang got $450 Mil for the Islanders I wonder what Katz would get in Seattle.

Plus selling more tickets at a slightly lower avgerage price can lead to higher revenues as the average attendee spends something like $30-$40 each per game.
No where close to it. The New York Islanders' TV deal is one of the biggest anomalies in professional sports. Expecting to match it, in a market of 4 million (versus 18 million), is completely unrealistic.

The NHL average is apparently $11.7 million annually. I imagine a relatively successful team in Seattle would be somewhere in that range, as are the Oilers.

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09-29-2012, 03:36 PM
  #477
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Now that you mention yea that would be pretty interesting, seeing Islanders moved to seattle.

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09-29-2012, 05:11 PM
  #478
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Of course Katz is going to apologize. He knows Edmonton is a gold-mine market for the NHL.

This might be the only city in the world honestly where you can charge $70 a ticket (more than the Miami Heat, Chicago Bulls, New York Rangers, etc.) to watch a last place hockey team every night in a crummy arena.

When he gets his shiny new arena + a team that figures to be even middle-of-the-pack ... he's going to be able to charge prices that are probably 2nd highest in the league after Toronto.

And sell out. Every night.

Granted, I do think too he does genuinely care about the Oilers franchise and made a mistake in judgement.
I'd love to see a model which shows the payback period of the Oilers paying for their own arena.

I don't think the Canucks got a subsidy for Rogers Arena. Not sure about the Canadians or Leafs.

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09-29-2012, 05:17 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Of course Katz is going to apologize. He knows Edmonton is a gold-mine market for the NHL.

This might be the only city in the world honestly where you can charge $70 a ticket (more than the Miami Heat, Chicago Bulls, New York Rangers, etc.) to watch a last place hockey team every night in a crummy arena.

When he gets his shiny new arena + a team that figures to be even middle-of-the-pack ... he's going to be able to charge prices that are probably 2nd highest in the league after Toronto.

And sell out. Every night.

Granted, I do think too he does genuinely care about the Oilers franchise and made a mistake in judgement.
He was thinking with his wallet instead of his head. Trying to force the hand of the city was clearly the wrong thing to do and he's hopefully realized that.

Edmonton is one of the most loyal and viable markets in hockey, especially for the size. They come out and support the team no matter how bad they are and are willing to pay top dollar to do so. How much more could he possibly want? If he wants a larger market the only way he could get that would be a second Toronto team and even then they certainly wouldn't get as much support as the Oilers. I really don't see what his motivations for looking at Seattle were. Edmonton loves their hockey and support it. Why risk that over $6mil a year on a new market?

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09-29-2012, 05:54 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
He was thinking with his wallet instead of his head. Trying to force the hand of the city was clearly the wrong thing to do and he's hopefully realized that.

Edmonton is one of the most loyal and viable markets in hockey, especially for the size. They come out and support the team no matter how bad they are and are willing to pay top dollar to do so. How much more could he possibly want? If he wants a larger market the only way he could get that would be a second Toronto team and even then they certainly wouldn't get as much support as the Oilers. I really don't see what his motivations for looking at Seattle were. Edmonton loves their hockey and support it. Why risk that over $6mil a year on a new market?
To be fair to Katz, Edmonton city council is notorious for taking *forever* to do anything (lol). He got frustrated and tried to put out a very badly orchestrated bluff.

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Old
09-29-2012, 05:59 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
To be fair to Katz, Edmonton city council is notorious for taking *forever* to do anything (lol). He got frustrated and tried to put out a very badly orchestrated bluff.
The city agreed to a deal with Katz around a year ago.

The only reason Katz was frustrated is because the city wouldn't break the already agreed upon deal to give Katz an extra $6 million per year. Not because the city was taking too long to decide on things. They already decided a year ago.

In fact, Katz is the person we are waiting on right now.

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09-29-2012, 06:30 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
The city agreed to a deal with Katz around a year ago.

The only reason Katz was frustrated is because the city wouldn't break the already agreed upon deal to give Katz an extra $6 million per year. Not because the city was taking too long to decide on things. They already decided a year ago.

In fact, Katz is the person we are waiting on right now.
Weren't there rumours of the new arena in like.. 2007/2008? The fact they are still going over details is almost depressing

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09-29-2012, 09:22 PM
  #483
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I have not read the entire thread and am not in tune with the Oilers situation but it gets real tiresome having these billionare owners milk cities for whatever tax money they can get.

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09-29-2012, 11:26 PM
  #484
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I have not read the entire thread and am not in tune with the Oilers situation but it gets real tiresome having these billionare owners milk cities for whatever tax money they can get.
Kind of my feeling too. Some owners seem to want to hold cities for ransom and get the most tricked out, expensive stadiums all while barely spending any of their own money....at least that's the vibe I get sometimes...

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09-30-2012, 12:27 AM
  #485
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Kind of my feeling too. Some owners seem to want to hold cities for ransom and get the most tricked out, expensive stadiums all while barely spending any of their own money....at least that's the vibe I get sometimes...
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Old
09-30-2012, 08:30 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
The city agreed to a deal with Katz around a year ago.

The only reason Katz was frustrated is because the city wouldn't break the already agreed upon deal to give Katz an extra $6 million per year. Not because the city was taking too long to decide on things. They already decided a year ago.

In fact, Katz is the person we are waiting on right now.
Disagree. Reason why Katz was frstrated was that someone in city council leaked information that was supposed to be held privately within the closed door meetings.

Also, for those interested who are not from Edmonton, here is an apology to the fine folks of Edmonton that Katz put in the Edmonton Sun yesterday:

Quote:
Letter from Darryl Katz dated September 29, 2012

To the People of Edmonton, Northern Alberta and Oilers Fans Everywhere, I owe you an explanation.

I was upset when certain confidential information was leaked and by comments that I thought were unfair and called my integrity into question.

I reacted by trying to send a message to City leaders that they should not take my support for a new arena for granted.

In doing so, I took for granted your support and your love of the Oilers.

That was wrong, and I apologize.

The best I can say is that I did it because I’m fighting for a deal that will enable the team to stay in Edmonton – and not because I want them to be anywhere else.

That’s why I bought the Oilers in the first place. Because I want the NHL to be sustainable in Edmonton for the long-term, and because I saw the city’s

need for a new arena as an opportunity to transform our city for the better.

In hindsight, I have underestimated the degree to which it would be up to us to make the case for public funding. As I think you all know by now, public

communications is not in my nature. Chalk that up as a personal shortcoming.

The simple fact is that the Oilers need Edmonton, and Edmonton needs the Oilers. Each is an integral part of the fabric and identity of the other.

We are continuing to work with City Administration to forge a win-win partnership that will benefit our city and that we can all be proud of.

I hope we can count on your support.

Sincerely,

Daryl Katz

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Old
09-30-2012, 09:55 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
Disagree. Reason why Katz was frstrated was that someone in city council leaked information that was supposed to be held privately within the closed door meetings.

Also, for those interested who are not from Edmonton, here is an apology to the fine folks of Edmonton that Katz put in the Edmonton Sun yesterday:
Good. Now when he moves the team he can say, "I tried. I really tried. I even wrote that apology letter to let you know I was trying. Remember?"


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Old
09-30-2012, 11:07 AM
  #488
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Good. Now when he moves the team he can say, "I tried. I really tried. I even wrote that apology letter to let you know I was trying. Remember?"



It is what it is and we'll see what happens. Some people do not believe a word of it, others believe Katz might actually be human...that's apart from the people who think he might be the dark knight.

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09-30-2012, 12:45 PM
  #489
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Good. Now when he moves the team he can say, "I tried. I really tried. I even wrote that apology letter to let you know I was trying. Remember?"

Thats very Clay Bennet-esque. Wouldnt surprise me if Katz pulled something like that off.

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09-30-2012, 09:31 PM
  #490
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Thats very Clay Bennet-esque. Wouldnt surprise me if Katz pulled something like that off.

IMO it's very possible this plays out like that way. Edmonton council takes forever to make decisions and when they do they generally screw it up. Sometimes slightly...sometimes it cost $250M to fix the oops. Sometimes they just completely miss the target like the giant aluminum bat and the shiny pile of expensive balls nobody wants to admit is even here.

If ground hasn't been broken on an Edmonton arena by the 2013/2014 season IMO it's very likely he shops both Seattle and Quebec for relocation as both will have new state of the art facilities and excellent opportunities for growth. We heard rumors of a new arena a long time ago...at one point there was speculation they were going to race construction for the Alberta jrs to try and consolidate the venue to solely Edmonton. Here we are in 2012 and we haven't broken ground...but Quebec has.

I can understand his frustrations...2 sitting council members are always on the board of Northlands and have in the past made negotiations and even the idea of a new arena very difficult for everyone. Here again city council leaks info...I wouldn't fault him for anything.

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09-30-2012, 10:22 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
Disagree. Reason why Katz was frstrated was that someone in city council leaked information that was supposed to be held privately within the closed door meetings.
They're talking about public money, therefore the details of the negotiations should be public.

If Katz doesn't like it, he shouldn't be asking for public money.

Based on my simple outside the negotiations understanding of things, Katz originally asked for a $450M grant to build a new arena, the city took a while and agreed, then Katz asked for an additional annual subsidy.

The reason the Oilers won't leave is because they wouldn't be allowed to by the league. They are a successful franchise in a successful market, not a team bleeding money and as a result there is no way the team would be allowed to leave. If the CAD vs USD exchange rate magically swings back to a 1.30 CAD = 1.00 USD, then all bets are off.

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09-30-2012, 10:27 PM
  #492
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09-30-2012, 10:32 PM
  #493
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the shiny pile of expensive balls nobody wants to admit is even here
Overall a good post but this made me laugh. What a useless waste of funds. Planting a couple trees there would have been better.

It's peanuts compared to the deal here, but it's just one in a series of terrible decisions by city government in recent years.

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09-30-2012, 11:11 PM
  #494
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Overall a good post but this made me laugh. What a useless waste of funds. Planting a couple trees there would have been better.

It's peanuts compared to the deal here, but it's just one in a series of terrible decisions by city government in recent years.
This city has wasted so much money over the years it could make one cry. $600,000 for those balls, $250M on the 23rd ave interchange when costs could have been considerably lower(ballpark $175M) if simply done right the first time around and in a timely fashion. There was the new welcome signs for the city(~1M actual cost was supposed to be 2-3M) because council didn't like the oil derrick on QE2, but people hated the giant icicles hanging over the highway like a world class traffic fatality waiting to happen.

I hate the thought of the Oilers leaving Edmonton but I can't blame Katz if he did. I actually heard one person say they were glad he was receiving death threats over his Seattle stunt. I shook my head and knew it might already be too late...I mean how willing are you to give more to a city who's vocal populace is threatening your life? We suffered through a horrible rebuild and it's now possible we'll have to watch Seattle/Quebec rise with our young stars.

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Old
09-30-2012, 11:29 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
I hate the thought of the Oilers leaving Edmonton but I can't blame Katz if he did. I actually heard one person say they were glad he was receiving death threats over his Seattle stunt. I shook my head and knew it might already be too late...I mean how willing are you to give more to a city who's vocal populace is threatening your life? We suffered through a horrible rebuild and it's now possible we'll have to watch Seattle/Quebec rise with our young stars.
See, if it were possible to deny those idiots a hockey team without catching everyone else in the crossfire, I would be so very in favor.

Alas, no fanbase consists exclusively of the levelheaded and the reasonable.

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10-01-2012, 03:53 PM
  #496
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Bill Gates from the Simpsons:

"I didn't get rich by writing checks."
funny cuzz Bill Gates writes a lot of big checks...

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10-01-2012, 04:08 PM
  #497
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So, they prolly won't move, but in case they do. I took the liberty of designing the jerseys...





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10-01-2012, 04:20 PM
  #498
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So, they prolly won't move, but in case they do. I took the liberty of designing the jerseys...




The Seattle Buzz Lightyears?

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