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Old
02-05-2013, 04:45 PM
  #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
What ever you guys think or what ever I think it matters what the Jets think

The Jets have drafted the following players in the top 2 rounds

Scheifle
Trouba
Sutter

All 3 have 1 thing in common. Size

Sorry but it is a pretty big criteria for the Org and Lindholm is a talented player but big nor gritty he is not.

Just tossing that out there before you guys get crazy but it is the truth

I hear what you are saying Joe, there obviously has been a tendency thus far to place a nice premium on size.

However, I don't think that that means that size is so highly valued over every other stat that the Scouting department will always draft the bigger guy over the smaller guy. There has to be a size / skill tipping point where if a player is skilled enough, the org will take him.

If two guys are rated as 7's and one is 5'8" and the other is 6' plus, then we all know who we're (and most likely all teams) taking. Now, as the skill, and smaller guy starts to project as more as a 8, or 8.5, etc, over a bigger guy who's a 7, I wouldn't think that the Jets would pass by that skill just to get size.

So, What I'm thinking (and hoping), is that if say a guy like Lindholm is available in our spot, AND the team thinks that he is an 8+, AND they also think that the other available players are 7+, that they take the 8+ guy. Size can make up a small difference in prospects, but I sure hope we don't use it to justify a large one.


Last edited by Huffer: 02-05-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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02-05-2013, 09:37 PM
  #577
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Interesting, Lawless just said on Lawless & Order that Craig Heisinger will leave tomorrow for his fourth scouting trip to Europe.

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02-05-2013, 09:52 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Interesting, Lawless just said on Lawless & Order that Craig Heisinger will leave tomorrow for his fourth scouting trip to Europe.
Yes it is . It may fall that the Jets don't take a European player but I highly doubt it .

The Jets aren't opposed to options from outside of North America as they have signed multiple players from there as veteran players. I personally think they didn't have the right scouting in place or the confidence in that until now. That would have led to the Canadian / North American drafts the last two years.

Kevin Cheveldayoff said the goal for the organization was to always be in a position to be aggressive. They are in that position , the media keep mentioning they don't know if the Jets will keep all of their picks fwiw . Huge opportunity this year to mold the young foundation for this team moving ahead.

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02-05-2013, 10:51 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Interesting, Lawless just said on Lawless & Order that Craig Heisinger will leave tomorrow for his fourth scouting trip to Europe.
Sounds good to me.

From what I've heard about Zinger he has a very solid eye for talent. I believe he's received some credit for scouting Chris Tanev amongst others.

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02-05-2013, 11:45 PM
  #580
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Postma and Redmond are 7th rounders , Byfuglien and Enstrom are 8'th rounders.

Not like late late rounders haven't worked out before

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02-06-2013, 12:07 AM
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
What ever you guys think or what ever I think it matters what the Jets think

The Jets have drafted the following players in the top 2 rounds

Scheifle
Trouba
Sutter

All 3 have 1 thing in common. Size

Sorry but it is a pretty big criteria for the Org and Lindholm is a talented player but big nor gritty he is not.

Just tossing that out there before you guys get crazy but it is the truth
Not saying the Jets would draft Lindholm, but he is my favorite forward in the draft. He plays a very complete game and competes very well.

In terms of grit... Would you call Alfie gritty? Would you call Forsberg gritty? That's the type of player this kid is, not to mention he is extremely smart. He's grittier than Zetterberg, but likely not as good offensively.

But if you draft him to be a goal scorer, he might be a bit of a disappointment (like Forsberg, the kid may only score 30 goals in his best years), but he should be a point producer and a 60+ assist player if played with a shooter (hello EKane).

He is a very complete player, much better defensively than most, which i think would be of interest to the Jets. This would be the player i would draft, if available in the 5 to 8 slot.

But, I do agree, the Jets will likely lean towards a bigger player, so a Sean Monahan may be their target. I would take Lindholm, over Monahan, though. He's 6'0 tall and may top off at 6'1 200+ - so that's not small. It's not big, but it's not small.

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02-06-2013, 12:15 AM
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
Yes it is . It may fall that the Jets don't take a European player but I highly doubt it .

The Jets aren't opposed to options from outside of North America as they have signed multiple players from there as veteran players. I personally think they didn't have the right scouting in place or the confidence in that until now. That would have led to the Canadian / North American drafts the last two years.

Kevin Cheveldayoff said the goal for the organization was to always be in a position to be aggressive. They are in that position , the media keep mentioning they don't know if the Jets will keep all of their picks fwiw . Huge opportunity this year to mold the young foundation for this team moving ahead.
Agreed.

They may also be getting a very good look at players that may be available in later rounds, beyond the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds. To me, it makes sense to draft a euro player and let him develop a bit more in his country, and then come over as a more mature and complete player.

Maybe not as long as Teemu took to come over, but i don't mind a year or two.

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02-06-2013, 12:20 AM
  #583
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One thing to keep in mind is that the NHL has changed the rules regarding drafting out of Europe. Back in the Selanne days, until the 05 CBA actually, you held onto players drafted out of Europe indefinitely. Thais changed in 05. They moved players drafted out of Europe down to just 2 years. Now this in part led to less Europeans drafted, IMO, since sometime it was hard to get Europeans out of Europe in just 2 years, some guys have barely made their senior teams in that time.

In this CBA, the NHL has moved players drafted out of Europe back to 4 years of exclusive rights. So now you have plenty more time to allow your player to develop in Europe and convince him to join your organization. As such I suspect we see an increase in the number of players drafted out of Europe this year.

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02-06-2013, 12:30 AM
  #584
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
Not saying the Jets would draft Lindholm, but he is my favorite forward in the draft. He plays a very complete game and competes very well.

In terms of grit... Would you call Alfie gritty? Would you call Forsberg gritty? That's the type of player this kid is, not to mention he is extremely smart. He's grittier than Zetterberg, but likely not as good offensively.

But if you draft him to be a goal scorer, he might be a bit of a disappointment (like Forsberg, the kid may only score 30 goals in his best years), but he should be a point producer and a 60+ assist player if played with a shooter (hello EKane).

He is a very complete player, much better defensively than most, which i think would be of interest to the Jets. This would be the player i would draft, if available in the 5 to 8 slot.

But, I do agree, the Jets will likely lean towards a bigger player, so a Sean Monahan may be their target. I would take Lindholm, over Monahan, though. He's 6'0 tall and may top off at 6'1 200+ - so that's not small. It's not big, but it's not small.
I really like Monahan too.

Lindholm look to have more upside, but Monahan should have a really nice, well rounded game. He is probably more NHL ready too.

I would be very happy with either kid. I would aslo be happy to have the Jets draft much later.

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02-06-2013, 12:36 AM
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
I really like Monahan too.

Lindholm look to have more upside, but Monahan should have a really nice, well rounded game. He is probably more NHL ready too.

I would be very happy with either kid. I would aslo be happy to have the Jets draft much later.
I'd take Monahan over Lindholm. I personally think Monahan actually has the better upside.

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02-06-2013, 12:45 AM
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
I really like Monahan too.

Lindholm look to have more upside, but Monahan should have a really nice, well rounded game. He is probably more NHL ready too.

I would be very happy with either kid. I would aslo be happy to have the Jets draft much later.
I agree, truck.

I would feel even better about that if Chevy was aggressive in getting the players this team needs to be a playoff contender. I personally believe, we are only a couple of players away from being a playoff threat each year. Unfortunately, that's 2 - top 6 forwards, specifically centers (as i like Little on the wing more) and a legit top 4 dman. I'll give Pavy a pass, for now.

Now Scheifele may be that guy in the future, or Burmi, if he continues his development, but a true playoff contender does not have 2 holes (imo) in the top 6 center position. Currently, Olli (ranked #63 in pts) and Antro (#85) are only slightly higher than Burmi (#98) or Slater (#115), and are older players on the downslope of their careers.

So if Chevy can acquire a legit top 6 center and top 4 dman, i won't worry about the draft too much. But since this hasn't happened, the draft seems to be the only way we can acquire the pieces we need. That's a pretty scary thought, though, as draft picks have a tendency to not work out, more than they do work out.

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02-06-2013, 12:54 AM
  #587
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
I agree, truck.

I would feel even better about that if Chevy was aggressive in getting the players this team needs to be a playoff contender. I personally believe, we are only a couple of players away from being a playoff threat each year. Unfortunately, that's 2 - top 6 forwards, specifically centers (as i like Little on the wing more) and a legit top 4 dman. I'll give Pavy a pass, for now.

Now Scheifele may be that guy in the future, or Burmi, if he continues his development, but a true playoff contender does not have 2 holes (imo) in the top 6 center position. Currently, Olli (ranked #63 in pts) and Antro (#85) are only slightly higher than Burmi (#98) or Slater (#115), and are older players on the downslope of their careers.

So if Chevy can acquire a legit top 6 center and top 4 dman, i won't worry about the draft too much. But since this hasn't happened, the draft seems to be the only way we can acquire the pieces we need. That's a pretty scary thought, though, as draft picks have a tendency to not work out, more than they do work out.
That is pretty much where I am on things.

As is the Jets need both Scheifele and Burmi to turn into top 6 centres or they will have a big hole there. The only other options will be trade and free agency.

That is why a stared so hard at Grigerenko last year and why I will do the same this year if the Jets draft high. #1Cs are lot harder to aquire than #4 D men.

Heck, I wouldn't even mind the Jest moving a few of those picks to grab a guy via trade or even to move up thhe draft board.

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02-06-2013, 01:09 AM
  #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
I'd take Monahan over Lindholm. I personally think Monahan actually has the better upside.
Not to rely too much on stats (close your eyes garret ), but looking at Lindholm's stats in the SEL this year, and comparing them to Peter Forsberg and Nick Backstrom at the same age in the SEL, Lindholm's points fall in quite nicely with those two - Forsberg leading the way, but Lindholm ahead of Backstrom.

Some in Sweden project him to be 'the next Peter Forsberg' or a 25-30 goal, 60-65 assist, 85-95 point player. Now that might be more than a bit ambitious, and there are many things that go into point production, but the kid plays a very solid 2-way game.

Monahan is a fine player, but he seems to be tailing off a bit. There is some concern with his skating quickness, as well. I realize the 67's have moved some players in a conscienous (or unconscienous) bid to draft phenom Sean Day, but I'm not sure he will score as many points as Lindholm, and I believe Lindholm is the better defensive player right now.

You can't teach size, though, and Monahan has size.

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02-06-2013, 01:14 AM
  #589
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
That is pretty much where I am on things.

As is the Jets need both Scheifele and Burmi to turn into top 6 centres or they will have a big hole there. The only other options will be trade and free agency.

That is why a stared so hard at Grigerenko last year and why I will do the same this year if the Jets draft high. #1Cs are lot harder to aquire than #4 D men.

Heck, I wouldn't even mind the Jest moving a few of those picks to grab a guy via trade or even to move up thhe draft board.
The Jets need a legit #1 C, the sooner the better. If it's via draft, FA, trade - i really don't care how they acquire one.

History shows it's very hard to trade or gather one in FA, without paying a ridiculous price. But i'm starting to loose patience with this whole build through the draft thing. I'd make a terrible GM.

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02-06-2013, 01:24 AM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
The Jets need a legit #1 C, the sooner the better. If it's via draft, FA, trade - i really don't care how they acquire one.

History shows it's very hard to trade or gather one in FA, without paying a ridiculous price. But i'm starting to loose patience with this whole build through the draft thing. I'd make a terrible GM.
Hopefully Burmi earns the #2 C spot this year, then he and Scheifele battle for #1 next year. Plus they can sign Getzlaf and add an NHL ready Monahan in the draft.

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02-06-2013, 01:29 AM
  #591
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Hopefully Burmi earns the #2 C spot this year, then he and Scheifele battle for #1 next year. Plus they can sign Getzlaf and add an NHL ready Monahan in the draft.
Then we'd have too many centers, and where would JimmySlates play?

But Leaf fans would still say their top 2 centers were better. Can't wait to hear, "ya, I'd take Bozak/Grabo over Getzlaf/Monahan any day of the week"

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02-06-2013, 01:34 AM
  #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Hopefully Burmi earns the #2 C spot this year, then he and Scheifele battle for #1 next year. Plus they can sign Getzlaf and add an NHL ready Monahan in the draft.
That would be overkill lol . Getzlaf is a pipe dream I am afraid ( would LOVE it though ) Lindholm or Monahan would be great and may be a legitimate option.

I doubt we finish at pick 6 but this short season makes a lot of things possible.

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02-06-2013, 07:12 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
That would be overkill lol . Getzlaf is a pipe dream I am afraid ( would LOVE it though ) Lindholm or Monahan would be great and may be a legitimate option.

I doubt we finish at pick 6 but this short season makes a lot of things possible.
I think there will be alot of teams within a few points of one another. It should be very interesting at the end.

Last year, Anaheim started so poorly, then went on an incredible roll only to finish out of the playoffs and the 6th pick overall. There were times when Anaheim looked like they would be picking 1st or 2nd overall, then making the playoffs.

And that's in an 82 game season. Who knows what will happen over the next couple of months.

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02-07-2013, 01:40 AM
  #594
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Opinion question.

Lets say we draft in the 10-15 range of the first round (personal projection only, id be happy to draft much later for success)

what would it take to move into the top 6/7 of the draft? there are some massive talents available with the first handful of picks this year.. we have 3 2nd rounders and 2 3rd round picks if im not mistaken

would our 1st, plus a 2nd and a 3rd be enough to move into the top 6? or would we have to add? i have a feeling teams wont give up those picks easily this year. but the jets could realllly use some "superstar potential" talent on the roster.

i guess to add to that, again under the assumption that our pick is in the 10-15 range, what would you be willing to give up to move into the top 6?

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02-07-2013, 02:16 AM
  #595
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Originally Posted by GoldenJet89 View Post
Opinion question.

Lets say we draft in the 10-15 range of the first round (personal projection only, id be happy to draft much later for success)

what would it take to move into the top 6/7 of the draft? there are some massive talents available with the first handful of picks this year.. we have 3 2nd rounders and 2 3rd round picks if im not mistaken

would our 1st, plus a 2nd and a 3rd be enough to move into the top 6? or would we have to add? i have a feeling teams wont give up those picks easily this year. but the jets could realllly use some "superstar potential" talent on the roster.

i guess to add to that, again under the assumption that our pick is in the 10-15 range, what would you be willing to give up to move into the top 6?
Apparently the NY Islanders offered Columbus all seven of their picks to move up two spots to draft Ryan Murray and Columbus turned them down.

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02-10-2013, 11:22 PM
  #596
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As stated earlier, I'm guessing in this draft to move up from 10th-12th to 5-6th would be at MINIMUM your first + an early 2nd + mid second,

That said, I hope we end up picking around pick 10 (stay in the playoff hunt till the end) and are able to trade up two of our 2nds plus a first for a top 6-7 pick and grab Monahan.

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02-10-2013, 11:58 PM
  #597
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I think Monahan is high on the Jets list, as well.

Big, skilled, 2-way center, who is a pretty high character kid too. If he's there at #5, #6 or #7 and the Jets are picking in that area, i have a feeling they will pick this kid.

I'd be fine with that too.

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02-14-2013, 10:39 AM
  #598
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Jets' scout is tonight at the TPS-Jokerit game, propably because of Rasmus Ristolainen.

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02-14-2013, 01:24 PM
  #599
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Originally Posted by Helsingin Jokerit View Post
Jets' scout is tonight at the TPS-Jokerit game, propably because of Rasmus Ristolainen.
May be better time spent if he went to scout Barkov. If things continue as they are, I don't think RR will be drafted as high as the Jets draft this year. .

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02-14-2013, 01:42 PM
  #600
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IDK if we keep up this pace we may be able to start jonesin' for Jones

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