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Official 2012 Patriots/NFL Thread Part II

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Old
10-21-2012, 09:27 PM
  #451
Dellstrom
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Something funny I saw.

Only 3 teams in the AFC are above .500, and the Steelers can only get to .500 if they win tonight, which isn't looking good. The Broncos, Chargers, and Dolphins are all at .500 and had bye weeks, but what the hell? What a weird year.

Two tough games coming up are 49ers/Texans back to back... We should be able to go 1-1 if not 2-0 if we play right. But we have the Rams, Bills, Jets again, and Dolphins in between there... I'd like to see a win streak going to possibly secure/narrow the division. Those are all winnable games, but they need to step it up. A confidence booster could be all we need. A 5 win streak might help that. Then try to expand it by beating two of the top teams in their respective conferences.

But let's not go too far yet.

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10-21-2012, 09:33 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Dellstrom View Post
Something funny I saw.

Only 3 teams in the AFC are above .500, and the Steelers can only get to .500 if they win tonight, which isn't looking good. The Broncos, Chargers, and Dolphins are all at .500 and had bye weeks, but what the hell? What a weird year.

Two tough games coming up are 49ers/Texans back to back... We should be able to go 1-1 if not 2-0 if we play right. But we have the Rams, Bills, Jets again, and Dolphins in between there... I'd like to see a win streak going to possibly secure/narrow the division. Those are all winnable games, but they need to step it up. A confidence booster could be all we need. A 5 win streak might help that. Then try to expand it by beating two of the top teams in their respective conferences.

But let's not go too far yet.
Not being a fatalist, but I expect the Pats to go 0-2 in those games.

9-7 might win the East though, so get ready for a Wild Card home game against a 7-9 Broncos team!

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10-21-2012, 09:36 PM
  #453
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PROS! The Pats could realistically be 7-0.

The refs could easily be blamed for 2 losses.

They haven't played nearly as well as they can.

PLENTY of room to grow and get better here on both sides of the ball.

The AFC East sucks. The AFC sucks.

Baltimore has suffered some big losses.

Pittsburgh is old and hurt and has no offensive line.

CONS:

Please re-read this thread.

4-3 after a pretty easy schedule. Have blown big leads late a lot. Worst secondar.....no, I can't do this.

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10-21-2012, 09:38 PM
  #454
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The offense is sneaky not that good.

Brady is no longer Brady. Still a top-10 quarterback, but something is just not the same.

Age?
Hasn't been discussed much here, but I really wonder how much Tom Martinez is missed. Like a hitting coach in baseball, no two mechanics coaches see or suggest exactly the same thing and the "best coach" is subjective.

My other (bigger) concern is the overall performance of the offense:

- The run game isn't reliable: it has the sizzle that it didn't last season but it's completely missing the steak. When it's 3rd and 2, the best play is a screen or quick pass outside the hash marks. A run up the middle with Bolden is the third best option and that needs to change. Would Waters help? Or is this all on the RBs?

- For a team that puts up this kind of yardage, these games shouldn't be close. Yes, the secondary sucks and yes, most teams can move downfield at ease, but for an offense that features Welker, Gronkowski, Lloyd, and Hernandez on the field for most snaps, a mediocre game from Tom Brady should not be a nail-biter. Could be McDaniels getting reacclimated, could be a lack of creativity in adding to last season's playbook. Saw the flea flicker today, which is sort of nice but not the creativity that I was hoping for.

- On that note, it looks like McDaniels is treating Brandon Lloyd like Randy Moss 2.0. He's not that guy: his strength is his medium to deep targets where he can use his vertical and reach to make circus catches. Moss ran a 4.25 40, Lloyd was timed at 4.62. Moss was 6'4", Lloyd is 6'0". They're different guys who should be running different routes.

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10-21-2012, 09:39 PM
  #455
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Bill should troll the league and reacquire Randy.

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10-21-2012, 09:43 PM
  #456
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Bill should troll the league and reacquire Randy.
Can barely get off the bench in San Francisco.

Could Stallworth really be worse than Branch at this point?

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10-21-2012, 09:52 PM
  #457
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Can barely get off the bench in San Francisco.

Could Stallworth really be worse than Branch at this point?
What about Slater?

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10-21-2012, 09:59 PM
  #458
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What about Slater?
Its going to be Edelman replaceing Branch in a 5 wide out set.

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10-21-2012, 10:23 PM
  #459
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- The run game isn't reliable: it has the sizzle that it didn't last season but it's completely missing the steak. When it's 3rd and 2, the best play is a screen or quick pass outside the hash marks. A run up the middle with Bolden is the third best option and that needs to change. Would Waters help? Or is this all on the RBs?

- For a team that puts up this kind of yardage, these games shouldn't be close. Yes, the secondary sucks and yes, most teams can move downfield at ease, but for an offense that features Welker, Gronkowski, Lloyd, and Hernandez on the field for most snaps, a mediocre game from Tom Brady should not be a nail-biter. Could be McDaniels getting reacclimated, could be a lack of creativity in adding to last season's playbook. Saw the flea flicker today, which is sort of nice but not the creativity that I was hoping for.
Are you saying running the ball should be option #1 on 3rd and 2? If so, I don't agree with that. I want the ball in Brady's hand. For as successful as the run game has been, this is still not a great run blocking o-line, especially when the other team knows you're gonna run.

It looked like the flea flicker would have worked but the RB didn't get the ball back to Brady fast enough and the timing was all off.

*****************

To me, throw out looking at the schedule. This team has proven this year that no game can be overlooked. Hell, Sam Bradford should be able to pick apart this secondary and the Rams have a much improved defense.

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10-21-2012, 10:30 PM
  #460
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I think Mcdaniels is having trouble changing the offence he called in 2007 to the current personnel. The 3rd and 2s ALWAYS went to Wes it seemed, and it worked every time. People used to say that was their running game, effectively.

Randy Moss is gone, Brandon Lloyd doesn't scare anyone. Gronk and Hernandez weren't here, and it just seems like Mcdaniels is totally lost as to what to call. Branch is garbage. No idea why they kept going downfield to him. I also think injuries are playing a part. Both TEs are banged up, and even though Gronk had a good game today, he's clearly not 100%.

I'm not panicking but their secondary needs some serious help. I can picture it now, in the divisional round when Nate Ebner or Toucher Edelman gets burned by Demaryius Thomas with 8 seconds left to win the game.

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10-21-2012, 10:58 PM
  #461
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Are you saying running the ball should be option #1 on 3rd and 2? If so, I don't agree with that. I want the ball in Brady's hand. For as successful as the run game has been, this is still not a great run blocking o-line, especially when the other team knows you're gonna run.

It looked like the flea flicker would have worked but the RB didn't get the ball back to Brady fast enough and the timing was all off.

*****************

To me, throw out looking at the schedule. This team has proven this year that no game can be overlooked. Hell, Sam Bradford should be able to pick apart this secondary and the Rams have a much improved defense.
That's just not the way it works. Brady just can't throw passes in every big spot. In short yardage situations, you need to have your passing AND rushing options as a threat. Without one, the other is more vulnerable as a general rule, but this is especially true in short yardage downs. Keep those LBs guessing.

The flea flicker is fine as a twice-in-a-season gag but it shouldn't be a mainstay in this offense. By creativity, I mean smarter timing routes and better play action setups. Right now, Brady looks down one WR, another WR, and if neither are good he heaves it long on a low-percentage throw. That was OK with Randy around but like I said, Lloyd isn't Moss.

I also have to wonder if Welker is struggling to come up with his own routes in this system. We heard last year that he has some plays that amount to "just get open," but with other WRs and TEs running new routes, I wonder if he just "knows" where to go or not. He's been inconsistent so far - hoping his performance evens out.

Fully agree that this secondary makes every opponent formidable.


Last edited by FutureConsiderations: 10-21-2012 at 11:03 PM.
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Old
10-21-2012, 11:20 PM
  #462
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It is the way it works with this team. For the most part, they should be passing on 3rd and 2.

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Old
10-22-2012, 07:02 AM
  #463
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I saw someone on FB say Brady showed "0 emotion going into OT...he is a pre-madonna now...you are witnessing the decline".

I just can't go on there during sporting events anymore. It's painful.

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10-22-2012, 07:52 AM
  #464
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It is the way it works with this team. For the most part, they should be passing on 3rd and 2.
Great, so in addition to the secondary, teams can put all their LBs into coverage and even drop a DE or two.

Gotta have balance.

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10-22-2012, 09:00 AM
  #465
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Not being a fatalist, but I expect the Pats to go 0-2 in those games.

9-7 might win the East though, so get ready for a Wild Card home game against a 7-9 Broncos team!
Had this same thought this am on the ride into work, while listening to Mike Flynn on TSH. Lousy defense and an inability to close out games will cost them at some point.

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10-22-2012, 09:20 AM
  #466
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I could see new England slipping to a fourth seed even at 11-5. Denver has only one game left vs an over. 500 team. (Baltimore)

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10-22-2012, 09:46 AM
  #467
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listening to WEEI today I heard 9 negatives to every 1 positive. Boy are we spoiled.

Two good things out of yesterday beyond the actual win

We have a kicker. This game may pay dividends in a few months

They won a game they have started losing.

Also- they certainly could have lost and that pass interference on Wilson was a joke. Jets got screwed there. Been hearing that over and over today and totally agree- but when the bad call goes against Mayo and Gronk that imo changed the Cardinals and Ravens games you hear nothing.

I may be one of the only Pats fan that likes Rex but I just think the guy is real, has a great sense of humor, and both lives and enjoys life.

to add- the injuries are killing teams in the AFC- the Ravens are a mess, the Jets ditto- still not a big fan of the Texans QB other than that Patriots should be in any game

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Old
10-22-2012, 10:07 AM
  #468
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I saw someone on FB say Brady showed "0 emotion going into OT...he is a pre-madonna now...you are witnessing the decline".

I just can't go on there during sporting events anymore. It's painful.
One of the best misspelling/typos ever.

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10-22-2012, 10:27 AM
  #469
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Great, so in addition to the secondary, teams can put all their LBs into coverage and even drop a DE or two.

Gotta have balance.
We might be arguing semantics, but 3rd and inches or 3rd and 1, fine...run the ball. Or if it's early in the game and 3rd and 2, fine...run the ball. But with the game on the line, I don't want to see them run on 3rd and 2...ever. Put Brady in the shotgun and let him make a play. What's been killing them is these 3rd down conversions they need to get late in games haven't been 3rd and 2. They've primarily been third and long due to failures on 1st and 2nd down.

*****************

Wilson holds like Revis out there. If it was reversed, the Pats secondary would have been called for it. I didn't see anything wrong with that.

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10-22-2012, 10:48 AM
  #470
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This team can't stop marginal QBs via the pass let alone a legit one. It will come back to haunt them at some point. You can't gamble and dare someone to beat you like that and not expect it to. Their DB play is just unacceptable across the board. Just terrible.

The play calling by McDaniels is also problematic. He seemingly tried to be too clever and is over thinking things to a large extent. He needs to be better and realize that his best asset is Brady. Let him do his thing. They also need to stop trying to force the ball to Lloyd. The reason they were tough to stop in years gone by was because Brady didn't care who he threw it to as long as the guy was open. Get back to basics.

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10-22-2012, 11:01 AM
  #471
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Question about the NFL Org. structure.

People have been ******** on Belichicks inability to "build" a good defense in recent years. Now do most NFL organizations have this Coach/GM combo thing going on? Or is this unique to the patriots? Because it confuses me how Belichicks coaching acumen is being rolled into drafting/player development.

Seems things have gone down hill since Pioli left. AKA Belichick is not that great at drafting/developing. But I am not sure that makes him a poor coach?

Though perhaps his ego is what is getting in the way of a true GM/Coach relationship and he should be faulted for that.

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10-22-2012, 11:09 AM
  #472
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Question about the NFL Org. structure.

People have been ******** on Belichicks inability to "build" a good defense in recent years. Now do most NFL organizations have this Coach/GM combo thing going on? Or is this unique to the patriots? Because it confuses me how Belichicks coaching acumen is being rolled into drafting/player development.

Seems things have gone down hill since Pioli left. AKA Belichick is not that great at drafting/developing. But I am not sure that makes him a poor coach?

Though perhaps his ego is what is getting in the way of a true GM/Coach relationship and he should be faulted for that.
His drafting has been suspect lately, no doubt about it, but I agree with you that his drafting and his coaching are two different topics. The development piece though, is a direct reflection on his ability to be an effective head coach. Whether he's not coaching the right techniques, or picking assistants that are failing to do so is really the big question. My guess is that he's leaving the day to day coaching to his staff, and since their DB play has been suspect for years now, it makes me question his opinion.

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10-22-2012, 11:12 AM
  #473
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Question about the NFL Org. structure.

People have been ******** on Belichicks inability to "build" a good defense in recent years. Now do most NFL organizations have this Coach/GM combo thing going on? Or is this unique to the patriots? Because it confuses me how Belichicks coaching acumen is being rolled into drafting/player development.

Seems things have gone down hill since Pioli left. AKA Belichick is not that great at drafting/developing. But I am not sure that makes him a poor coach?

Though perhaps his ego is what is getting in the way of a true GM/Coach relationship and he should be faulted for that.
I think there's a lot going on there.

- Belichick isn't getting any younger. NFL GM and NFL Coach are two very demanding jobs. It's very possible he's spread too thin rather than just being ineffective at either.

- On the defensive front, I'm still of the mindset that he's been almost hilariously slow to change. When the "rule emphasis" went into place after our 2nd mauling of the Colts, BB should have almost completely erased what he knew about defense. The NFL has become a flag football passing type league. The majority of our starting defense (Wilfork, Love, Spikes, Mayo, Hightower, Chung) are primarily run oriented players, and you still hear about certain guys in the secondary (Arrington especially) keep their jobs there because they're strong against the run. Think it needs to be the opposite. Strong against the pass, just okay against the run. Especially when Brady is your QB, gain leads, turn teams into the one dimension you can stop. I'm also not sold that anyone from his "tree" knows how to defend the pass at the 2nd level without contact 5-10 yards down field.

- McDaniels playcalling is wretched against good teams. They need to get out of the habit of trying to force things they aren't good at. The out pattern and the ball deep down the sideline are those two things. Slow developing plays are another. Get back to just brutally taking whatever the defense gives you. I'm also still not a fan of going ultra-conservative on 3rd and short, 4th and short. The second this team crosses midfield, less than 2 yards is 4 down territory. Punting from some of the spots they've punted from this year is absurd, and I still look at Field Goals with this offense as a last resort.

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10-22-2012, 11:33 AM
  #474
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Woodhead is currently averaging a career worst 3.5 YPC. His effectiveness has been on the decline since he first arrived here. It doesn't work anymore. He's still good out of the backfield and on blitz pickups, but stop giving him the ball on running plays.

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10-22-2012, 12:06 PM
  #475
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Woodhead is currently averaging a career worst 3.5 YPC. His effectiveness has been on the decline since he first arrived here. It doesn't work anymore. He's still good out of the backfield and on blitz pickups, but stop giving him the ball on running plays.
This x10000000

One of the positives I got out of yesterday's game was that Edelman barely played

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