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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part III (First 2 weeks of season cancelled)

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Old
10-05-2012, 03:06 PM
  #576
GordonGecko
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This isn't going to end well, the players are going to call the owners bluff and keep playing overseas while not making and radical concessions the NHL is looking for. The league is going to have to follow through and cancel the whole season or look really stupid after the next two blocks are announced. Following that, I expect a ****storm at league meetings with the owners of the most profitable teams laying into Betman and the hardliners. I see the NHL coming up with the biggest concessions sometime in early December to resurrect the season in time for holiday hockey and the Winter Classic.

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10-05-2012, 03:11 PM
  #577
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The funny thing is you know Dolan just wants to get this **** rolling. I'm sure he is not behind this lockout one bit.

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10-05-2012, 03:14 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
The funny thing is you know Dolan just wants to get this **** rolling. I'm sure he is not behind this lockout one bit.
Because he don't want to lose money, neither should the others

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10-05-2012, 03:24 PM
  #579
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"Big Four" met today.

http://snyrangersblog.com/rangers/no...ce=twitterfeed

Quote:
Tim Panaccio writes that Daly told him the talk was “General discussion of where we were and how to try to move process forward from here. We talked about possibly scheduling some meetings for next week, but mostly to deal with the other issues. Will touch base over the weekend.”

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10-05-2012, 03:52 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
this is Bettman's 3rd lockout in his tenure as the commisioner of the NHL. can you name me a commissioner in ANY sport this happened 3 times??
Imagine putting down 2 canceled seasons in 8 years on your resume.

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10-05-2012, 03:56 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Imagine putting down 2 canceled seasons in 8 years on your resume.
My favorite is how about shutting down the league in the middle of the biggest growth period of your sport and sending it in reverese

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10-05-2012, 04:00 PM
  #582
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Think that Fehr's comments are better

Quote:
"We remain committed to doing everything in our power to forge an agreement that is fair to the players, fair to the teams and good for our fans. This is not about 'winning' or 'losing' a negotiation. This is about finding a solution that preserves the long-term health and stability of the league and the game. We are committed to getting this done."
The union countered Thursday by saying the NHL forced the lockout instead of letting the season go on as planned.

Quote:
"The decision to cancel the first two weeks of the NHL season is the unilateral choice of the NHL owners," Donald Fehr said in a statement. "If the owners truly cared about the game and the fans, they would lift the lockout and allow the season to begin on time while negotiations continue.
The thing that rankles me about Daly's statement is do not talk to me about the long term health and stability of the league and the game, when a mere several months prior, you were crowing about the league's growth and the record revenues. Bettman and the owners were patting each other on the back the last time because they got "cost certainty". Do not talk to me about the long term health and stability of the league.

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10-05-2012, 04:11 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
it would give them the season and all off season to come up with one going forward, and no one loses money by missing games?
So the essentially the exact situation as a year ago, which resulted in no deal. And what would happen after that? Play 2013-14 under the current CBA?

The owners believe, and justifiably so IMO, that the pain of not having a paycheque is the only thing that will create the incentive to negotiate/cave in.

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10-05-2012, 04:35 PM
  #584
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Always figured this was going to take us into late November--maybe December. I'd prefer if they were playing but I'm not particularly missing it. Personally I don't like the owners or Bettman--I suppose I'm left wing--OTOH it's almost ridiculous to get all bent out of shape over multi-millionaires deprived of plying their trade. When I started following the Rangers way back in 71-72 this game wasn't so corporation intensive. Maybe I'm too old but I liked it better that way.

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10-05-2012, 05:10 PM
  #585
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Told that NHL strongly urged NHLPA in meeting today to come up with new offer. In turn, NHLPA also asked league to come up with new offer...
Quote:
In short, both sides expressing to each other that it's time to compromise
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun

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10-05-2012, 05:32 PM
  #586
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The NHL is pushing to get a deal. Who knows what their corporate sponsors told the NHL this week in Toronto? Bettman didn't try this hard in the two previous lockouts.

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10-05-2012, 05:40 PM
  #587
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Okay, good, both sides come up with offers. Let's start working!

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10-05-2012, 05:49 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The NHL is pushing to get a deal. Who knows what their corporate sponsors told the NHL this week in Toronto? Bettman didn't try this hard in the two previous lockouts.
One could only hope they are.

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10-05-2012, 06:18 PM
  #589
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Hopefully Lebrun is right!.. Make your best offers, than compromise some and get something done so that all we miss is 2 weeks.

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10-05-2012, 06:47 PM
  #590
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No PR involved is good for both parties.

Quote:
Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
Those on both sides have told me that progress will be getting made when the meetings are done quietly #NHL #NHLPA

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10-05-2012, 06:52 PM
  #591
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Okay, good, both sides come up with offers. Let's start working!
I actually think formal proposals hurt these things more than helps them. Dialogue is more important.

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10-05-2012, 06:58 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The NHL is pushing to get a deal. Who knows what their corporate sponsors told the NHL this week in Toronto? Bettman didn't try this hard in the two previous lockouts.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...ronto/1615943/

Quote:
"(The) meeting was regarding trying to move this process forward," NHLPA spokesman Jonathan Weatherdon said.

The meeting between Commissioner Gary Bettman, deputy commissioner Bill Daly and union leaders Donald and Steve Fehr didn't become public until it was over.

"We went up today to see if there was something we could do to
encourage them to give us a new proposal," Daly told USA TODAY Sports in an email. "Anything. Even if it moves us backwards, at least we would have movement."

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10-05-2012, 07:29 PM
  #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
This isn't going to end well, the players are going to call the owners bluff and keep playing overseas while not making and radical concessions the NHL is looking for. The league is going to have to follow through and cancel the whole season or look really stupid after the next two blocks are announced. Following that, I expect a ****storm at league meetings with the owners of the most profitable teams laying into Betman and the hardliners. I see the NHL coming up with the biggest concessions sometime in early December to resurrect the season in time for holiday hockey and the Winter Classic.
I'm on record with a ...there will be no Winter classic this year although I believe there will be a much reduced schedule.

The most profitable teams have no leverage unless they are willing to donate funds to the unprofitable teams (not going to happen). The 75% clause was written so the smaller market teams would have power and therefore would buy new franchises. A small franchise with no power is almost assured of being a long term money loser.

My belief is that the players will hold out longer than the owners expect and both the owners and players will end up losers. My belief is that both sides may have exquisite timing for the lockout as another downturn in the economy probably will occur within the next 18-24 months. Therefore, I suspect that the loss of revenues will not be made up for a long while. A downturn in teams fortunes would do wonders for the players salaries going forward. LOL.

Bettman will be leading stubborn owners into a no win situation while Fehr plays the pied piper and leads the PA into a victory while burning everything in his wake.

Just my opinion.


Last edited by ltrangerfan: 10-05-2012 at 07:36 PM.
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10-05-2012, 10:44 PM
  #594
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Quote:
Just a résumé of NHl CBA talks today. It was about core-economic. No new offer from both side. Hope for another meeting next week.
https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/sta...19875760582657

Core-economics.

Quote:
So NHL meets with a lot of big advertising clients on Weds to explain lockout. Today NHL and NHLPA meet. I'm saying no connection. Cough
https://twitter.com/dowbboy/status/254412467722125312

Quote:
NHL and NHLPA met for 90 minutes this morning and another 45 minutes in the afternoon.
https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/sta...10069229989888

Allan Walsh. Yeah Allan Walsh is claiming the NHL owners are getting restless

Quote:
After spending most of the day on the phone, the one truth no one on the NHL side wants us to know- Bettman is losing control of his room.
Quote:
Why did Bettman/Daly sneak into Toronto for secret meeting w/ the NHLPA? He's feeling heat from owners. Being told, "we can't lose season."
https://twitter.com/walsha

You can make the same case for the players. Henrik is tweeting Lets figure this out Don and Gary. One of these players on twitter is going to have a Chris Chelios moment and tweet something so stupid which they'll end regretting.

For everyones sake. Compromise and get a deal done.

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Old
10-05-2012, 10:50 PM
  #595
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^^^

I was just going to post the last tweet.

I really wonder how many owners want this to end now.

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10-05-2012, 11:23 PM
  #596
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Seems like some good news today.

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Old
10-05-2012, 11:25 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
One of the problems we have as fans of the game is that he has made everyone a lot of money despite his mistakes.

When is the next opportunity that he might realistically be replaced? Is his contract up any time soon? Is there a partnership agreement among the constituent teams that will expire at any point?
You keep saying that Bettman made "everyone" a lot of money--but yet, Bettman comes back each time saying under the current system, the majority of the teams are losing money--hence why they need to reduce the players share of revenue and chain them to the team that drafted them for at least 10 years with no arbtration rights.

The NHL said they needed a new system of cost certainty at the end of the 2004 season--so, they locked out the players until they got a hard cap, a 24% rollback of existing contracts and various other limits (arbitration, ELC etc), while throwing a bone to the players in lowering the UFA age (which they thought would benefit them). They said that they needed cost certainty in order to reduce ticket prices and they were going to partner with the PA to grow the game. They also said that if the players didn't take the last offer made in 2005 (August/September), that they would cancel a 2nd season, withdraw the offer that was ultimately signed and replace with another one in the summer of 2006 that would be even more draconian.

Now, after getting almost everything they wanted in 2005, they come back again and say--the business model has failed and that in order to save the league the players must agree to further concessions. They do not acknowledge the fact that it's their business model and it doesn't seem to be working for the vast majority of teams (if Forbes is to be believed). They want to prevent any contracts from running more than 5 years and want to further roll back existing contracts--including ones signed the day before the lockout began, by an owner who certainly knew the details of the NHL's first offer. And let's not even talk about revenue sharing....

Tell me how Bettman is successful again? How many teams have been relocated in the last 20 years? How many teams are draining money from the league because they are either owned outright by the NHL (Phoenix) or need money to prevent going into backrupcy? How well has expansion into the southern part of the United States worked? Where have tickets prices gone down (or at least have only increased due to inflation)? Why does the TV contract the NHL just negotiated NOT take into account that league revenues might actually continue to grow over the life of the contract?

All of these things have contributed to where we are today--in the 3rd lockout of Bettman's tenure. A successful leader of an industry should be looking to create a long-term business model that increases revenues and creates a bigger pie for everyone involved. Yet, Bettman is not even talking about increasing revenue anymore and has said that the expectation is that revenue will not continue to increase at anywhere near what it has been in the last 7 years. And round and round we go, the model has failed and the players are the ones who must take the hit in order to save the owners from themselves.

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10-05-2012, 11:38 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
How is it NOT majority rules on a matter like this... if 16 owners want to start the league up and play, then that's what should happen! THe fact that 8 owners control what happens in the league is ridiculous in my opinion.
The NHL is an association of teams--in order to join the NHL a franchise must sign the by-laws of the NHL, including one that prevents them from leaving to join another league. Another rule is that 75% of the owners must agree to any new CBA. Yet another rule prohibits owners and the team representatives from discussing contract negotiations--violate the rule, and the organization be fined up to a $1 million dollars and/or lose draft picks. And (as the King said) etc., etc., etc..

Signing on the dotted line is part of the price of admission into the NHL.

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10-05-2012, 11:43 PM
  #599
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We need to do a pool on how many regular season games it ends up being per team. I think we'll certainly see a shortened season.

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10-05-2012, 11:51 PM
  #600
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We need to do a pool on how many regular season games it ends up being per team. I think we'll certainly see a shortened season.
Not if the Rangers have anything to say about it--they're still working under the theory (quickly becoming a pipe dream) that the regular season will have 41 home games and are continuing to charge their season ticket holders accordingly.

But, yes, I think the reality is that there will be less than 82 games during the regular season--unless the league thinks ending the playoffs after July 4th is a good way to win back fans.

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