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Mikael Granlund IV

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:29 PM
  #676
W75
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I remember, long time ago. I was young, a schoolboy.

There was a local Finnish star who played for Helsingin Jokerit. Can't remember if I ever wathced him play very closely... But some of us, bunch of schoolkids, mocked that he was a sissy wuss who could never make it in NHL. Not tough enough, just a lady. And all those Jokerit fans who thought he was special, boy they were idiots...

I didn't know much about hockey back then. Of course I watched WC games, like almost all the Finns. But didn't go to hockey games much if at all. I was just a small part of a pack and we knew everything.. about everything.

It was one Teemu Selänne we were talking about.

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02-01-2013, 01:12 PM
  #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi75 View Post
I remember, long time ago. I was young, a schoolboy.

There was a local Finnish star who played for Helsingin Jokerit. Can't remember if I ever wathced him play very closely... But some of us, bunch of schoolkids, mocked that he was a sissy wuss who could never make it in NHL. Not tough enough, just a lady. And all those Jokerit fans who thought he was special, boy they were idiots...

I didn't know much about hockey back then. Of course I watched WC games, like almost all the Finns. But didn't go to hockey games much if at all. I was just a small part of a pack and we knew everything.. about everything.

It was one Teemu Selänne we were talking about.
Selanne holds the all-time record for points as a rookie.

Somehow I don't know what this has anything to do with Granlund and him struggling.

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02-01-2013, 01:19 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by jaeger View Post
Selanne holds the all-time record for points as a rookie.

Somehow I don't know what this has anything to do with Granlund and him struggling.
It was just a personal story. It was before his NHL era. After that I've been more careful to judge anyone. As you said, it has nothing to do with Granlund though. Just a story.

There's no such thing that knowing the future. Nowadays I try to hope for the best. Me being right or wrong is irrelevant.

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02-01-2013, 01:46 PM
  #679
Henri M
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I agree that he has looked "lackluster"(?) in some games, but then again, he is a 20 year old rookie, with 3 points in 7 games, with a +/- 0.
Sound completely fine. There is nothing alarming here, and as some people have pointed out; sending him down to the AHL will not help him improve certain aspects of his game, such as playing along the boards, as much as continuing playing in the NHL will improve those aspect.

So I do not understand the consensus here.

PS. Of course, this is given that the Wild continue playing in a manner which assures them a playoff spot.

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02-01-2013, 02:10 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
To be fair, Stamkos was 18 and came from juniors, not a professional league.

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02-01-2013, 02:22 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by Jaykay View Post
To be fair, Stamkos was 18 and came from juniors, not a professional league.
Granlund came from Europe, Stamkos from a North American league. It's easier to adapt when you've been playing NA hockey all your life.

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02-01-2013, 02:36 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
Granlund came from Europe, Stamkos from a North American league. It's easier to adapt when you've been playing NA hockey all your life.
So if you took a 20 year old Stamkos from the Finnish league he wouldn't have started better than he did when he was 18 year old who came straight from Sarnia? There are differences in style and rink size but at the end of the day hockey is hockey.

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02-01-2013, 02:44 PM
  #683
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There's a smaller gap between a professional league and NHL than a junior league and NHL. However, players develop and adapt at different pace, thus comparing individual players' development paths is often irrelevant.


Last edited by Haite: 02-01-2013 at 02:53 PM.
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02-01-2013, 02:47 PM
  #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaykay View Post
So if you took a 20 year old Stamkos from the Finnish league he wouldn't have started better than he did when he was 18 year old who came straight from Sarnia? There are differences in style and rink size but at the end of the day hockey is hockey.
Look at Silfverberg in Ottawa. Demolishes the SEL as a 21 year old and has a great AHL season during the lockout. He has 1 goal in 7 NHL games right now.

Periods of adjustment are very real and nothing to be afraid of.

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02-01-2013, 02:51 PM
  #685
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I'm not by any means worried about Granlund's development. I just didn't think the Stamkos comparison made much sense other than to show how quickly fans tend to over-react and apply the bust label. Silfverberg is a much better comparison.

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02-01-2013, 02:58 PM
  #686
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All these players are not really comparable. Every player that enters the NHL has their own set of challenges and weaknesses they have to overcome, some more, some less.

Granlund's challenges are that he is a little on the small side(which inturn makes him on the weaker side), he is of average speed, and that his d game is about average.

He wil overcome the challenge of his strength for the most part, given some time.

He can improve his skating some, but he will never be a speed demon.

He will improve his play in the d zone as he matures.

He's not going to win the Calder, it's a disappointment, but whatever.

He still will turn into an above average top 6 forward within the next year or two. He has too much skill to not be good.

Hell, if he could just keep his stick in his hands a little better and not get knocked off the puck quite as easily, he'ld already be way better off.

The linemates he has been with so far don't exactly compliment his game at this point either. He's being relied upon to do more than he is capable of.

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:05 PM
  #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaykay View Post
I'm not by any means worried about Granlund's development. I just didn't think the Stamkos comparison made much sense other than to show how quickly fans tend to over-react and apply the bust label. Silfverberg is a much better comparison.
Yeah, I quoted you, but it was a general message to all.

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Old
02-01-2013, 05:28 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Look at Silfverberg in Ottawa. Demolishes the SEL as a 21 year old and has a great AHL season during the lockout. He has 1 goal in 7 NHL games right now.

Periods of adjustment are very real and nothing to be afraid of.
This is a good one to compare to. Or Zibenjad. Or if you want to compare some NA prospects...Brayden Schenn and Ryan Johansen..both cant miss blue chip offensive guys still havent scored consistently. He's played 7 games. Patience is a virtue people. He will be a star in this league. What did Mikko have his first year like 21 points??

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02-01-2013, 06:03 PM
  #689
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Talk about overreactions. People don't even understand context anymore. Bust potential =/= bust. It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by Nsjohn130 View Post
Again, he is 7 games into the NHL. THE NHL. He lacks attributes that CAN be changed. Skating technique is the hardest of all to change and many players never do. But speed based on improved strength and motor endplate recruitment patters is not hard to change. And mentally, all that takes is time, experience, and dedication.
Can be? Sure. Likely? No. Skating is one physical skill that is rarely improved to significant lengths once you reach a professional age. Honestly no NHL name jumps out at me since it's so uncommon. Just go through the players on the Wild. The skater they are now is pretty much the skater they were at age 18 or 20. Mikko is a good example of a player that took time to improve. But he's never been a fast skater. What improved physically was his hands. He's very good with the puck--a huge improvement from his rookie year. Add that skill with a good mind for the game and a big frame, and he's a very good player in tight situations. Brent Burns is another name that was always a great skater. What made him much better over time was his hands. They went from stone to gold.

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IMO, he is just going through a period of adjustment and I'll think he'll be fine.
If I can see that the player has all the physical tools necessary for success, I chalk it up to things just not "clicking" yet. Players can learn the cerebral part and excel. But that isn't what I see with Granlund. I see physical issues that are not just transition problems.

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02-01-2013, 07:21 PM
  #690
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I'd love to see Granlund on Koivu's wing for a few shifts to see how he looks there. I'm shocked they haven't tried that yet,

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02-01-2013, 07:35 PM
  #691
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The first line is working so well right now, I doubt the coaching staff would be willing to break any of it right now. They're just going to have to figure out who plays with Granny in the 2nd or 3rd line and if possibly switching him to wing. I personally have faith that him and Seto can develop into something decent, albeit not great.

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02-01-2013, 07:41 PM
  #692
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if everyone remains healthy they won't touch the first line. if someone on the second gets creamed, you might see someone from the first double shifted with the second line, sharing the duties with whoever gets bumped up from the third.
Parise-Granlund-Seto or whatever.

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02-01-2013, 09:25 PM
  #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Talk about overreactions. People don't even understand context anymore. Bust potential =/= bust. It's that simple.


Can be? Sure. Likely? No. Skating is one physical skill that is rarely improved to significant lengths once you reach a professional age. Honestly no NHL name jumps out at me since it's so uncommon. Just go through the players on the Wild. The skater they are now is pretty much the skater they were at age 18 or 20. Mikko is a good example of a player that took time to improve. But he's never been a fast skater. What improved physically was his hands. He's very good with the puck--a huge improvement from his rookie year. Add that skill with a good mind for the game and a big frame, and he's a very good player in tight situations. Brent Burns is another name that was always a great skater. What made him much better over time was his hands. They went from stone to gold.


If I can see that the player has all the physical tools necessary for success, I chalk it up to things just not "clicking" yet. Players can learn the cerebral part and excel. But that isn't what I see with Granlund. I see physical issues that are not just transition problems.
Shut up.

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02-02-2013, 12:25 AM
  #694
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Minnesota got destroyed by Anaheim, and Minnesota`s horrible team passing game isn`t doing any favours for Granlund or anyone else for that matter. Perhaps the first line can be at least somewhat good without a solid team passing game, because of their combined talent and experience, but other than that Minnesota seems to be in trouble as players don`t have any space or time to do something with the puck. (Very bad for Granlund as he is small, not that fast or powerful.)

Just take a look at the Anaheim goals and you will see what a solid team passing game and players situational awareness can accomplish.

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02-02-2013, 12:58 AM
  #695
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Quote:
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What about Saku Koivu?
Saku was very quick and strong compared his weight. Granlund isn't so athletic, he more like extremely skillful skinnyfat guy. Sure he can grow big muscles but then his skating will be even worse.

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02-02-2013, 01:13 AM
  #696
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Still, something has to get better, since Granlund can`t be this weak and slow for the rest of his NHL career (or it will be a short career). At the moment it is quite disappointing to see how weak Granlund has looked, since he has had sometime to prepare for his NHL rookie season, but perhaps playing in Finland he just didn`t need that much strength training or speed to be good.


Last edited by Michael Hockey: 02-02-2013 at 01:24 AM.
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02-02-2013, 02:46 AM
  #697
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How has MG been preparing ? he got the military service out off the way and school done GOD JOB!, last spring he got an bad flue bug that destroyed granny's spring season almost 100% and i doubt he trained hard if he was sick for 6-7? weeks

He's been haunted by both the Finnish media and tons off love hungry "maidens" since the WC win

So were have the time for real preparation been?

Have there been the same kind off path to success that for example zucker has done training with dan hardy during summers and focusing 100% for the goal?
Zucker got a taste off the real deal, he knew what to expect
Granny came from an soft playing league to the real deal from to easy circumstances
He's game IQ kind misted he's self belief about the situation

Could MG have done more in the past ? simple answer not unless he would know how much he would struggle

Now wild has and extremely talented FEL forward with an top NHL skill set but extremely un mature physical attributes that has he's mental side rocked by the physical struggle .
Wild have an "broken arrow" out there

Does that sound like a wild 2 line CENTER ??

Playing MG as an center is insanity i trust yeo to mix the lines he has to ,this game was the final waking call

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02-02-2013, 04:14 AM
  #698
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Well probably hitting the weights to gain more strength wouldn`t have hurt. But then again probably the most important question here is about FEL`s ability to prepare players for the NHL. Every year there are many Finnish players (although not as promising as Granlund usually) coming from FEL who try their wings in the NHL, and almost always they struggle mightily and usually end up either in the AHL or the KHL very quickly. Now the most talented and persistent ones can in some cases find their place on the permanent NHL roster, but usually this takes years. (Not many young Finnish NHL players around, who can produce at least average points per season.)

And now to see even Granlund struggling this much (although his small size and lack of elite speed were of course know beforehand) makes you wonder a little about the FEL`s ability to truly develop players who are ready to play in the NHL. Perhaps the Finnish coaching system has lost its touch on how to make players ready for the NHL or perhaps they are only interested in making their players good in FEL and focus too much on the requirements of the big ice hockey.

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02-02-2013, 04:25 AM
  #699
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Well, I think a case can be made that as the team struggles so does Granlund. And him having a bad time might be reflective of the whole team having a bad time (disregarding the first line until yesterdays game).
In my opinion Heatley has been equally bad, if not worse, considering who he is playing with. I would love to see Granlund on the wing with Koivu and Pärisee.

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02-02-2013, 06:38 AM
  #700
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The team has to get rid of Heatley and Granlund as quickly as possible, two busts there ^^ too bad nobody wants Heatley, sick Cap for the play he puts up constantly.

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