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Your veteran defencemen to EDM

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Old
09-28-2012, 04:58 PM
  #101
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Old
09-28-2012, 06:11 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
It is not all about age Smid has been with the Oilers since 06 and is a leader on this team. Whitney when healthy is a legit top 2 dman.
"A leader on that team" is a good thing to have, but it's not the objective being sought here - the OP seems to be focused on additional outside experience. Say, playoff experience or other things like that. Whitney is similarly disqualified for that particular role.

Not to say that either of them are somehow bad or something crazy like that, but they just don't meet the objective at hand.

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Old
09-30-2012, 12:10 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Lidstrom did have a mentor lol.
Coffey played for Detroit from 92-96.
And from 96-01 he had Larry Murphy.

Maybe not in his rookie season, but I am certain he learned a few things from those two.
Im a huge fan of coffey (favorite player to watch, after mario) and personally i think it was the other way around...coffey himself has said so. Norris in '94 if memory serves me.

When Lidstrom was at his first training camp Yzerman was quoted as saying that Lidstrom might just be the best PLAYER he had ever seen.


Last edited by oilinblood: 09-30-2012 at 12:40 AM.
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Old
09-30-2012, 12:36 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
I seriously think it's the other way around. Edmonton's greatest weakness is their blueline. Why do you think TSN hyped up the possibility of Edmonton moving down to draft Murray? Our blueline possibly sucks and is very unproven to say the least.

If I'm wrong about Schultz it's because Whitney and Potter were not capable of playing the 2nd pairing d-man role, but I don't completely buy that. I don't see the point in having a stay at home d-man who doesn't punish the opposition.

Yes, Schultz does throw hits. He averaged 1 hit per game, or one hit every 20 minutes. That's not enough. Especially for a team that's as soft up front as Edmonton is. Petry and Smid threw out some really sweet hits last year, but the opposition isn't afraid to rush into our zone when they're not on the ice. Sutton is physical, but he can be a real pylon at times and that's why he plays on the third pairing.
agree to disagree, our opinions of NSchultz are not the same.
IMHO a shut down defenseman - like Lidstrom - doesnt have to be physical.The word check in hockey does not refer to hitting, in its definition heritage, it has to do with putting an opposing player into check. In other words a shut down defenseman simply stops plays by the opposition. If you want a big hitter thats different and it is rare to find the combination of heavy hitter and the ability to make the sound decision of when to leave an advantageous body position on the ice to move into a low percentage area just to increase your hits per game -dion phluffbags. For example a dumb defenseman might have a player in check, but yet leave positive ice position to make a check on the boards, which now opens a gap and causes the d partner and other players to be focussing on both the gap that has been opened up unwisely and their own positional coverage. It happens all the time. The shutdown defensemen shut you down period... they leave you very little, low percentage plays and ice space, to work with.
Brian Rafalski and Scott Stevens made a great shutdown pair. Rafalski actually used the threat of stevens to his advantage and would steer his approaching opposition players into low percentage zones or - if they wanted to try to go for the slot hed lead them far enough into Stevens side that Scott had an easy time nailing them. It was actually quite visciously decadent how they worked off eachother--and many brain cells were lost. Rafalski was a great talent and when people dont think he was a shut down d-man i point to his ability to steer players and work gaps and stick check. The ability to check; positionally, with the stick, or with the body...is what being a shut down d-man is about

My issue is on the right side not on the left. Smid, NSchultz, Whitney, Sutton are fine on the left (plus we have alot of prospects on the left). The right has Petry JSchultz and Potter. J Schultz, should he make the team, should not be pencilled into any more than optimized ice time...3rd pair D and lots of PP. Potter should not be more than a depth guy --lower than Sutton.
A boychuk would be great for last stands and i think would work well with NSchultz as a second pairing.

----I will say that i agree in your trade assessment of Gilbert -Schultz. Non-hockey wise it was identitical contracts pretty much. Hockey wise N Schultz IS what the Oilers were trying to get Gilbert to develop into (minus the offense). In making the move the Oilers gave up the premium of the right shot. Reading between the lines you can see the Oilers believing that; N Schultz has more offensive ability than he was able to show in Minnie (i support this since i have followed him since junior), AND that the Oilers are feeling that they would rather have the opposition stopped and our forwards transitioned quicker rather than being pinned in the zone a bit longer but having a better offensive d-man. In short... with the prized offensive talent this organization has the Oilers needed a guy who could smartly end plays efficiently and send the puck back to the forwards, rather than have the entire shift over work on the defensive end and waste the forwards efforts and energy.

or ... in other words... shut down the opposition soundly to move the puck back to where we have the advantage.


Last edited by oilinblood: 09-30-2012 at 12:49 AM.
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Old
10-01-2012, 08:31 PM
  #105
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Old
10-02-2012, 12:49 AM
  #106
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Need someone like Willie Mitchell, Brooks Orpik, Kevin Bieksa, Hamuis, Girardi etc.

Guys who don't put up a lot of points but are rock solid top 4 D who aren't flashy but play in big game tough situations. Lay the occasional huge hit. Oilers would overpay in terms of secondary prospects and picks for a player like that.

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10-02-2012, 12:55 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
Need someone like Willie Mitchell, Brooks Orpik, Kevin Bieksa, Hamuis etc.

Guys who don't put up a lot of points but are rock solid top 4 D who can play in big game tough situations. Lay the occasional huge hit. Oilers would overpay in terms of secondary prospects and picks for a player like that.
Yeah... as much as Vancouver would love to give Edmonton their players... they're kind of in win-now mode so it wouldn't work out. But Coburn and Meszaros seem to fit the description.

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Old
10-08-2012, 01:35 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
Need someone like Willie Mitchell, Brooks Orpik, Kevin Bieksa, Hamuis, Girardi etc.

Guys who don't put up a lot of points but are rock solid top 4 D who aren't flashy but play in big game tough situations. Lay the occasional huge hit. Oilers would overpay in terms of secondary prospects and picks for a player like that.

Orpik for Pajaarvi or Hemsky?

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Old
10-08-2012, 02:34 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Lidstrom did have a mentor lol.
Coffey played for Detroit from 92-96.
And from 96-01 he had Larry Murphy.

Maybe not in his rookie season, but I am certain he learned a few things from those two.
lidstrom's mentor was brad mccrimmon, his first defense partner. mccrimmon was also pronger's first defense partner.

he also got guidance from hall of famers mark howe, slava fetisov, and coffey and murphy whom you mention. add to that playoff tested veterans like brad marsh, mike ramsey, bob rouse, and jamie macoun. lidstrom was probably the most well-mentored defenseman of all time.

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10-08-2012, 10:40 AM
  #110
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Komisarek + 3rd for a 4th-5th + Peckham?

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Old
10-08-2012, 10:52 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
Yeah... as much as Vancouver would love to give Edmonton their players... they're kind of in win-now mode so it wouldn't work out. But Coburn and Meszaros seem to fit the description.
Look at the roster. Vancouver is not in win now mode. They have been winning, but are not a playoff team at all. So, they are in regular season win now mode, or President's trophy win now mode. If Gillis wanted to play for the cup I imagine he'd have done something at the deadline last season?

Edler has not re-signed in Vancouver. The CBA has expired without having him locked up. He is not in Vancouver mode. Niether, apparently, is Luongo.

I propose Luongo and Edler to Edmonton for actually useful return. This means scoring.

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Old
10-08-2012, 11:41 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
Need someone like Girardi

Oilers would overpay in terms of secondary prospects and picks for a player like that.
That's not happening.

Everybody on Hfboards wants to anti up their futures for something bona fide. Shot-blocking, hitting machine like Girardi won't be pawned off for secondary assets/picks. Get real.

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10-08-2012, 11:45 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
Need someone like Willie Mitchell, Brooks Orpik, Kevin Bieksa, Hamuis, Girardi etc.

Guys who don't put up a lot of points but are rock solid top 4 D who aren't flashy but play in big game tough situations. Lay the occasional huge hit. Oilers would overpay in terms of secondary prospects and picks for a player like that.
Girardi + Stepan for Nuge and Petry.

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Old
10-08-2012, 12:00 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
Komisarek + 3rd for a 4th-5th + Peckham?

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Old
10-08-2012, 12:01 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Girardi + Stepan for Nuge and Petry.
Are you sure that's enough coming back from the Oil?

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10-08-2012, 12:01 PM
  #116
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Hate to suggest it as i'm a flames fan..

Would there be interest in Sarich?
well we did give you Staios.

I don't mind Sarich.

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10-08-2012, 12:15 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
Are you sure that's enough coming back from the Oil?
Yeah. All star shutdown defenseman and established young 2nd line center.

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Old
10-08-2012, 12:16 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
lidstrom's mentor was brad mccrimmon, his first defense partner. mccrimmon was also pronger's first defense partner.

he also got guidance from hall of famers mark howe, slava fetisov, and coffey and murphy whom you mention. add to that playoff tested veterans like brad marsh, mike ramsey, bob rouse, and jamie macoun. lidstrom was probably the most well-mentored defenseman of all time.
This. While Coffey is in the HOF, he is so because of his freakish skating ability and good offensive hockey sense.

If I want to learn NHL-brand defense, there are few better than Brad McCrimmon.

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10-08-2012, 12:21 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Yeah. All star shutdown defenseman and established young 2nd line center.
we have Smid and some up and coming shutdown defenceman in the system, how established is Stepan? he will never replace RNH and Gagner > Stepan

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10-08-2012, 12:28 PM
  #120
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I would not trade RNH for any dman.

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10-08-2012, 12:36 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
we have Smid and some up and coming shutdown defenceman in the system, how established is Stepan? he will never replace RNH and Gagner > Stepan
Smid is already a good shutdown player, but he's never manged 25 mpg consistently. Can you explain to me how Gagner is better than Stepan? Stepan outproduced him the past 2 years, plays minutes on the PK and is younger.

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10-08-2012, 12:40 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Girardi + Stepan for Nuge and Petry.
10 Girardi caliber and type of players will be traded in the NHL before 1 Nuge caliber player. And Gagner = Stepan. And Petry could be as good as Girardi as early as next season.

So, respectfully, pass.

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10-08-2012, 12:43 PM
  #123
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Seabrook for your 1st and Smid + Jones

2014

Saad - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Mackinnon - Hossa
Shaw - Bolland - Jones
Beach - Danault -McNeil

Keith - Smid
Hjarlmasson-Roai
Oduya-Leddy


Last edited by DontToewzMeBro: 10-08-2012 at 01:21 PM.
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Old
10-08-2012, 12:45 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
10 Girardi caliber and type of players will be traded in the NHL before 1 Nuge caliber player. And Gagner = Stepan. And Petry could be as good as Girardi as early as next season.

So, respectfully, pass.
Absolutely ridiculous statement. Truly ignorant.

In what world is Gagner = Stepan? They bring similar offense, but Stepan is by far the better two-way player and it's not even close. I do think Gagner gets underrated on here, but let's be surreal. He hasn't proven to be anything more than a below average, one-dimensional, slow skating, undersized centerman that doesn't put up the points to negate his deficiencies.

And no, Petry can not be 'just as good' as Girardi next season. That would mean that he'd log the most minutes in the league against the top lines in the league and come out with better possession ratings. To suggest he's even close is asinine.

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Old
10-08-2012, 12:49 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
Seabrook for your 1st and Smid + Jones

2014

Saad - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Mackinnon - Hossa
Shaw - Bolland - Jones
Shaw - Danault -McNeil

Keith - Smid
Hjarlmasson-Roai
Oduya-Leddy
Done, no take backsies.

Seabrook-Petry
Whitney-J. Schultz
N. Schultz-Peckham/Sutton

I love Smid but Seabrook is a pretty substantial upgrade and that move could vault the Oilers into the playoffs so the 1st wouldn't be too big of a loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Absolutely ridiculous statement. Truly ignorant.

In what world is Gagner = Stepan? They bring similar offense, but Stepan is by far the better two-way player and it's not even close. I do think Gagner gets underrated on here, but let's be surreal. He hasn't proven to be anything more than a below average, one-dimensional, slow skating, undersized centerman that doesn't put up the points to negate his deficiencies.

And no, Petry can not be 'just as good' as Girardi next season. That would mean that he'd log the most minutes in the league against the top lines in the league and come out with better possession ratings. To suggest he's even close is asinine.
His post was pretty ridiculous as was your proposal.

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