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Whos Better? Ilya Kovalchuk vs. Henrik Sedin

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Old
09-27-2012, 06:25 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Danis and his 2.05 GAA / .923 save percentage was "barely an AHL goaltender"?

Danis had six starts, and appeared in a total of 12 games.
I would say if Danis had more starts that number would be lower. Not extremely low but a lot of the Devils backups had better number than Marty throughout the years, but a smaller sample size as they played less games. Kevin Weekes had a higher save percentage than both Clemmensen, and Marty that one year! He didn't play as many games as the other two though.

I do agree we won a lot of close games. Even in our second half run with Lemaire two seasons ago there were a lot of 1 goal games or just really close games. Classic Lemaire hockey. I remember many close games throughout all 3 Lemaire tenures.

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09-27-2012, 06:52 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I don't remember Danis being too bad. He got pulled in Dallas that one game, and Marty came on for relief. He looked like a statue in that shootout game he played though. He probably we have sucked had he played many more games though.

I think one of Danis 2 NHL shutouts came against us when he played for the Isles haha.
Danis wasn't all that bad, but he didn't play often, and scoring on him in the shootout was like babytown frolics. He had no idea what he was doing facing breakaways, and it showed.

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09-27-2012, 07:09 PM
  #103
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His best moment as a Devil.

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09-27-2012, 07:25 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
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That player we had that signed elsewhere this summer is nowhere to be seen making that play happen other than sitting in front of the net on that tying goal

Zajac, Kovy, even McAmmond making the play go around

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09-27-2012, 07:27 PM
  #105
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Wait, how the hell did this thread go from Kovy to Dan Yanis

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09-27-2012, 07:53 PM
  #106
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Wait, how the hell did this thread go from Kovy to Dan Yanis
I wonder if Dan Yanis is in anyway related to Jam Canssen?

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09-27-2012, 08:12 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I wonder if Dan Yanis is in anyway related to Jam Canssen?
And Hohan Jedberg

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Old
09-27-2012, 08:24 PM
  #108
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Chico's the one who made up Jam Canssen. He corrected himself right away though haha.

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09-27-2012, 09:54 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
That player we had that signed elsewhere this summer is nowhere to be seen making that play happen other than sitting in front of the net on that tying goal

Zajac, Kovy, even McAmmond making the play go around
Eh, let's not do some revisionist history now, the Snooze Line keeping sustained pressure is what drew that penalty in the first place, and he was a big part of that. And Parise was also a good screener and tipper, and that threat had to be respected, giving everyone else room to work with.

I still think it's crazy that just two and a half years later, every single player that was on the ice for the winning goal (besides Marty) is gone from the team now.

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09-27-2012, 10:57 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
I still think it's crazy that just two and a half years later, every single player that was on the ice for the winning goal (besides Marty) is gone from the team now.
It is crazy. Trav is now the third longest tenured player on our team right now after Marty, and Patty. Clarkie is the fourth longest tenured player on our team right now. Both of them from the 06/07 season.

At the start of 10/11 season Colin White was our third longest tenured player from 2000 with Langenbrunner the fourth longest from 02. When the 09/10 season ended Pandolfo was the third longest tenured player from 96.

At the start of last season Parise was our third longest tenured once White was bought out. In two years our third longest tenured player went from a guy who made their debut in 96 to a guy who made his debut in 06.

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09-27-2012, 11:34 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Somehow, Kovalchuk beat out not just Pavel Datsyuk but also Shea Weber. How that happened is beyond me, but right now, he is in the finals with H. Sedin (who also managed to beat Malkin somehow). Anyways, here's the link if you want to vote and I guess discuss whether Kovalchuk is actually better than Datsyuk, Weber (or H. Sedin).

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=9706

When everyone in Russia wakes up tomorrow, I think Kovalchuk will then get the win.
Kovi IS better than Datsyuk...definitely more complete player
...and you can not compare Kovi with Weber...i mean, how can you say a F is better than a D when they both have totally different roles to fill...

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09-27-2012, 11:46 PM
  #112
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Kovi IS better than Datsyuk...definitely more complete player
You can not be serious

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Old
09-28-2012, 12:09 AM
  #113
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Kovi IS better than Datsyuk...definitely more complete player
i... i... what?

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09-28-2012, 07:55 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Part of the reason is we also got lucky in the first half, as much as some people don't like that explanation. We won an absurd amount of one goal games (more than we usually do) and had loads of timely goals.
just wondering- your answer to everything seems to be either 1) ‘of course that happened, it was statistically probable to do so’ or 2) ‘well, it didn’t happen, but it was just luck.’

im really not trolling this time (boy who cried wolf, I know I know).. I just wanted to know. surely you must watch the games, right? cant you ever supplement your data with observations, or do you really see no value in that?

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09-28-2012, 08:14 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post
just wondering- your answer to everything seems to be either 1) ‘of course that happened, it was statistically probable to do so’ or 2) ‘well, it didn’t happen, but it was just luck.’

im really not trolling this time (boy who cried wolf, I know I know).. I just wanted to know. surely you must watch the games, right? cant you ever supplement your data with observations, or do you really see no value in that?
My data? This isn't about data at all. My observation was that the Devils were consistently getting fortunate in some of the games they won. I determined that by watching the games. The difference is that I actually understand probability and how randomness can impact things, whereas most people don't (there are volumes of psychological research about how humans inately reject randomness and luck as an explanation for things - we favor crafting fake narratives to explain a series of events rather than accepting that a lot of events are simply out of our control - so it's perfectly normal for you to feel an aversion to it).

Are you also capable of understanding that statistics are merely a way of quantifying observations? We could argue all day about who's observation is correct, but it's pretty useless in the end because we're both just spouting unsubstantiated opinions. "I'm right, you're wrong. You're opinion is ludicrous, mine isn't." That doesn't do anything for me. Having some facts to bring objectivity to the discussion helps.


Last edited by Feed Me A Stray Cat: 09-28-2012 at 08:23 AM.
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09-28-2012, 08:19 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
My data? This isn't about data at all. My observation was that the Devils were consistently getting fortunate in some of the games they won. I determined that by watching the game.
Look, you know I like stats and observations combined... but one of those isn't like that other sir.

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09-28-2012, 08:21 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
My data? This isn't about data at all. My observation was that the Devils were consistently getting fortunate in some of the games they won. I determined that by watching the game.
my data comment was more referring to most of your other posts. the post i was referencing included luck. that was my point- with you, its either data, or the data is irrelevant in specific instance because of luck.

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09-28-2012, 08:24 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I would say if Danis had more starts that number would be lower. Not extremely low but a lot of the Devils backups had better number than Marty throughout the years, but a smaller sample size as they played less games. Kevin Weekes had a higher save percentage than both Clemmensen, and Marty that one year! He didn't play as many games as the other two though.

I do agree we won a lot of close games. Even in our second half run with Lemaire two seasons ago there were a lot of 1 goal games or just really close games. Classic Lemaire hockey. I remember many close games throughout all 3 Lemaire tenures.
Danis definitely would have had inferior numbers if he played more games, but there's no way anyone can adjust he played like an AHL caliber goaltender with a 2.00 GAA and 923 save %.

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09-28-2012, 08:29 AM
  #119
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Luck a fleeting like a woman's looks, but data... data is forever.

Seems like a statistician would be persecuted for citing luck in any argument, but it's probably just a crime of passion.

What an ugly kid - we'll name him Outlier.

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09-28-2012, 08:30 AM
  #120
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bah nevermind lulz


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09-28-2012, 08:38 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
Look, you know I like stats and observations combined... but one of those isn't like that other sir.
You caught me.

Quote:
my data comment was more referring to most of your other posts. the post i was referencing included luck. that was my point- with you, its either data, or the data is irrelevant in specific instance because of luck.
If that's the narrow-minded stance you take, then so be it. It isn't about data or no data. It's about what data you use, how that data relates to other data, the sample size you use. And in the end all these statistics just help explain what you see on the ice, and often times can reveal things that go unnoticed (none of us are as good at watching the games as we think we are). That's it really.

We just had someone in this thread claim than Yann Danis played at barely an AHL level in 09-10. In their mind, this opinion was fully supported by what they saw on the ice. In general, we are all pretty bad at remembering things accurately and unbiasedly. Statistics, used properly, help cure that malady.

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09-28-2012, 08:46 AM
  #122
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09-28-2012, 09:14 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
It is crazy. Trav is now the third longest tenured player on our team right now after Marty, and Patty. Clarkie is the fourth longest tenured player on our team right now. Both of them from the 06/07 season.

At the start of 10/11 season Colin White was our third longest tenured player from 2000 with Langenbrunner the fourth longest from 02. When the 09/10 season ended Pandolfo was the third longest tenured player from 96.

At the start of last season Parise was our third longest tenured once White was bought out. In two years our third longest tenured player went from a guy who made their debut in 96 to a guy who made his debut in 06.
Well, that's always going to happen as players age and get replaced. But the speed of the transition was shocking. The old guard, representing several players, was gone in less than two years.

At least we're not like the Flyers, where Giroux is somehow their most tenured player on the team now, because they got rid of Gagne, Carter, and Richards.

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09-29-2012, 01:39 AM
  #124
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Ignoring contract considerations and all that jazz, I'd take Kovy on my team over Sedin.

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09-29-2012, 01:40 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Well, that's always going to happen as players age and get replaced. But the speed of the transition was shocking. The old guard, representing several players, was gone in less than two years.

At least we're not like the Flyers, where Giroux is somehow their most tenured player on the team now, because they got rid of Gagne, Carter, and Richards.
Actually, Giroux is nowhere near our longest tenured player. That honor belongs to Coburn. Guys like Timonen, Hartnell, and Briere have been around longer than Giroux.

The Gagne trade was a kick in the face.

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