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The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

Cup of Hope 2013 (parallel to the Gagarin Cup)

View Poll Results: What you think about the new "Kubok Nadezhdy"?
Good Idea 10 50.00%
Bad Idea 10 50.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-22-2013, 09:42 AM
  #1
russianhockey
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Cup of Hope 2013 (parallel to the Gagarin Cup)

Failure to qualify for the Gagarin Cup play-offs will no longer mean the end of the season for teams in the KHL. For the 2012/2013 campaign the League is introducing a new tournament, the Cup of Hope (Nadezhda Cup), which will run to the end of March, keeping interest alive for the supporters and ensuring the players, many of whom will be fighting for places in their national teams, in peak physical condition. Six teams from the Western Conference and four from the Eastern Conference will take part.



Last edited by russianhockey: 01-22-2013 at 10:15 AM.
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01-22-2013, 09:45 AM
  #2
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I voted "good idea" because it make sense nowadays. But I dont fully support it. I would prefere longer season, with WC break in february and play-off finishes in late May or so.

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01-22-2013, 09:49 AM
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russianhockey
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Also "Good Idea" here.

otherwise the players of the 10 teams, who didnt made the playoffs has 2 make an break for about a half year.

One option to get the season longer is to shut down the Euro tour or cut the value of the stages from 4 to 1 or 2. the league needs much more teams form the central europe to get some better divisions.

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01-22-2013, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russianhockeyDOTde View Post
Also "Good Idea" here.

otherwise the players of the 10 teams, who didnt made the playoffs has 2 make an break for about a half year.

One option to get the season longer is to shut down the Euro tour or cut the value of the stages from 4 to 1 or 2. the league needs much more teams form the central europe to get some better divisions.
I am not sure it is a solution. Yes, you can have a few more games in regular season. On the other hand you have to finish season a few days before WC. What is the point to finish regular season at the end of february? Lets finish regular season late march/early april, but it is not possible with current WC schedulling.

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01-22-2013, 10:10 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I voted "good idea" because it make sense nowadays. But I dont fully support it. I would prefere longer season, with WC break in february and play-off finishes in late May or so.
Fully agree. We don't need NHL castaways for the World Championships.

Or, at the very least, move the WC so that they start immediately after the NHL regular season is over. Then finish the KHL play-offs afterwards.

And I agree there's no need for WC in the Olympic seasons. One disruption is bad enough, and two of them borders on league sabotage.

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01-22-2013, 10:28 AM
  #6
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voted for bad idea, I see no point in playing consolation tournament. Point of any competition is to determine who´s the best, not who is 17th best. If KHL dont like that season ends in March for 10 teams, they can add more games by extending season from 52 to XY games, or switch from regular season/POs to double round-robin system where each teams plays the other team twice (home and away)

If 52-games regular season is too short, add some games. F.e. NHL just started and they are still able to have 48-games season.

1. Scratch Euro Hockey Tour for the beginning.
2. no WC in Olympic year would be nothing new, between 1920 and 1968, the Olympic hockey tournament was also considered the World Championship for that year. WC=WOG. I´m fine with it.

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01-22-2013, 10:39 AM
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I too think the season should be longer with a WC break, but voted a good idea, due to an old Russian wisdom, that states: in a place (pond/river/sea or like) that has no fish - crayfish is a fish as well. (not sure if it makes sense to a non-Russian speaker.

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01-22-2013, 10:40 AM
  #8
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like one guy said on sports.ru, the best way to give not only 15.000.000 rub to the winner.
they need to play for 1st round pick in upcoming draft (+15 mil. rub)
very good idea imo

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01-22-2013, 10:43 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kajoo View Post
voted for bad idea, I see no point in playing consolation tournament. Point of any competition is to determine who´s the best, not who is 17th best.
Seconded.

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01-22-2013, 10:46 AM
  #10
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Quote:
they can add more games by extending season from 52 to XY games, or switch from regular season/POs to league format (one home/away game with everyone).
hockey league without play-off? Nowadays? Bad idea.

more games - how do you want to achieve it? It would be cca 56 games without Euro Hockey Tour. Is it a solution? No.

Quote:
If 52-games regular season is too short, add some games. F.e. NHL just started and they are still able to have 48-games season.
Who owns arenas where NHL clubs play? As you know MHL clubs use to play at KHL arenas as well. Plus arenas are not only for KHL clubs, only for hockey. Your comparison with NHL does not make sense.
Yes, NHL has 48 games this season, but regular season ends late april, then play-off. In KHL you need to finish play-off before WC (late april). Ok, NHL regular season is cca 4 month/48 games. KHL season is cca 5 moths (minus 1 month for EHT and breaks)/52 games. Similar one.

Only solution is to have WC in february or so, then rest of regular season and play-offs. Like it or not, it will work like this in future. Fasel is not NHL´s puppet anymore, he is KHL´s one.

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01-22-2013, 10:49 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I voted "good idea" because it make sense nowadays. But I dont fully support it. I would prefere longer season, with WC break in february and play-off finishes in late May or so.
If you are talking about the World Championships being moved from May to February, it will never happen. The NHL will not ever ever ever ever in a million years shut down its league every year in February so players can run off to the World Championships. It is just not going to happen, it's just not going to happen. So, I don't know why people are even considering it, floating it out there as an option, it will not happen.

If you are talking about a World Cup to be held once every 4 years in between Olympics(and the idea has been floated out there to hold it in February) it may fly.

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01-22-2013, 10:56 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
If you are talking about the World Championships being moved from May to February, it will never happen. The NHL will not ever ever ever ever in a million years shut down its league every year in February so players can run off to the World Championships. It is just not going to happen, it's just not going to happen. So, I don't know why people are even considering it, floating it out there as an option, it will not happen.
KHL will NEVER NEVER have club from central Europe - fans opinions back in 2009 or so.

Everything is possible.

A few facts

Do we need NHL to reschedule WC? No.
Does KHL have much more power in Europe than IIHF? Yes.
Is KHL´s goal to have World Championships in february? Yes
Is Fasel/IIHF under pressure (corrupted) of KHL? Yes

I dont know if KHL achieves this goal. If not, there is stil a option not to be under IIHF umbrella. And then, no KHLers at WC in may. Do you think this is the best idea?

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01-22-2013, 11:04 AM
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I think ET and WC are so outdated....it's boring to say the least.

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01-22-2013, 11:09 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russianhockeyDOTde View Post
Failure to qualify for the Gagarin Cup play-offs will no longer mean the end of the season for teams in the KHL. For the 2012/2013 campaign the League is introducing a new tournament, the Cup of Hope (Nadezhda Cup), which will run to the end of March, keeping interest alive for the supporters and ensuring the players, many of whom will be fighting for places in their national teams, in peak physical condition. Six teams from the Western Conference and four from the Eastern Conference will take part.

Good idea, but honestly I would rather see longer regular season than 54 games.

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01-22-2013, 11:13 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Is KHL´s goal to have World Championships in february?
Is that a fact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
no KHLers at WC in may. Do you think this is the best idea?
No NHLers at WC in February doesn't sound so sweet either.

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01-22-2013, 11:15 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
I think ET and WC are so outdated....it's boring to say the least.
Yes... because best players don't play there. The KHL should definitely have priority over WC, and the so-called "Euro Tour" (only 4 countries invited) should be cancelled.

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01-22-2013, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
Is that a fact?
Yes, it is. Reread Shalayev etc speech in Barcelona.

Quote:
No NHLers at WC in February doesn't sound so sweet either.
I dont care. If NHL does not want to participate, it is its problem.

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01-22-2013, 11:37 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Yes, it is. Reread Shalayev etc speech in Barcelona.



I dont care. If NHL does not want to participate, it is its problem.
It's just not that the NHL will not participate. Hockey Canada and USA Hockey will not participate, so what you'll end up with is an even more watered down version then it's current version European Championship, not a World Championship.

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01-22-2013, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
hockey league without play-off? Nowadays? Bad idea.

more games - how do you want to achieve it? It would be cca 56 games without Euro Hockey Tour. Is it a solution? No.
Double round-robin format was thrown in only as example, because this is imo the only format that guarantees equal amount of games for everyone, if this is the concern and reason for any consolation tournament.

KHL needs to be played in regular season + post-season´s playoff format with teams being split in divisions/conferences in order of reducing travel costs. KHL is spread over 2 continents and more time zones than NHL, less money teams invest into travelling, more money remains for improving quality of hockey. PO system has a lot of up-sides, but also a down-side - some teams go golfing earlier than others. Which was ok until Medvedev discovered that KHL is in need of Hope Cup

Anyway, I still dont understand this proposal. Even if Hope Cup contenders get minimal media coverage, it´s coverage stolen from teams that deserve it more - from true contenders fighting for Gagarin Cup. And I sincerely doubt that fans will care about any Micky Mouse consolation tournament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Who owns arenas where NHL clubs play? As you know MHL clubs use to play at KHL arenas as well. Plus arenas are not only for KHL clubs, only for hockey. Your comparison with NHL does not make sense.
Oh please, dont tell me that arenas originally designed for hockey cant accomodate more than 26 regular season games (+ PO games). And MHL teams can easily play in smaller rinks, they wouldnt sell out a barn for 2000 spectators. Neither KHL arena is overbooked by events, and even if they are busy, I doubt they are busier than f.e. Madison Square Garden in NY. Anyway, hockey arenas should serve for hockey first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Only solution is to have WC in february or so, then rest of regular season and play-offs. Like it or not, it will work like this in future. Fasel is not NHL´s puppet anymore, he is KHL´s one.
I´m not fan of WC break.


Last edited by kajoo: 01-22-2013 at 11:56 AM.
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01-22-2013, 11:57 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
It's just not that the NHL will not participate. Hockey Canada and USA Hockey will not participate, so what you'll end up with is an even more watered down version then it's current version European Championship, not a World Championship.
therefore nobody wants it

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01-22-2013, 12:09 PM
  #21
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KHL needs to be played in regular season + post-season´s playoff format with teams being split in divisions/conferences in order of reducing travel costs. KHL is spread over 2 continents and more time zones than NHL, less money teams invest into travelling, more money remains for improving quality of hockey. PO system has a lot of up-sides, but also a down-side - some teams go golfing earlier than others. Which was ok until Medvedev discovered that KHL is in need of Hope Cup
I agree for 99%

Do you know why KHL adopted conference/division model in 2008 instead of classic european model (two home/away games against each other)? Yes, to reduce travelling costs. It worked until euro expansion. KHL is developing, and time zones will not be a problem in future (when league is fully developed, meanig no more expansion), at least not so much problem as today. Give KHL a time.

Quote:
Oh please, dont tell me that arenas originally designed for hockey cant accomodate more than 26 regular season games (+ PO games). And MHL teams can easily play in smaller rinks, they wouldnt sell out a barn for 2000 spectators. Neither KHL arena is overbooked by events, and even if they are busy, I doubt they are busier than f.e. Madison Square Garden in NY. Anyway, hockey arenas should serve for hockey first.
Bold part is evidence you dont understand the "project" KHL-VHL-MHL. One of reason why was MHL created was to play games at appropriate arenas, not training rinks as before. You know, MHL wants to attract fans to visit games. Therefore better arenas. Why do you think there is no austrian club in MHL this season? Because they had problems with arena... training rink=no MHL.

[QUOTE]Anyway, hockey arenas should serve for hockey first./QUOTE]
tell it to owners of arenas. They wil not share your point of view. Many of them.

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01-22-2013, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Yes, it is. Reread Shalayev etc speech in Barcelona.
Okay, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I dont care. If NHL does not want to participate, it is its problem.
Like it or not, but a lot of Europeans are going to care. If I have to choose between Team Russia with NHLs and Team Russia with KHLs, then I choose the NHLers. The same goes for Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, Slovakia etc. Not to mention Canada and the USA. The KHL is doing alright and is improving, but the NHL is still more important to Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kajoo View Post
Even if Hope Cup contenders get minimal media coverage, it´s coverage stolen from teams that deserve it more - from true contenders fighting for Gagarin Cup. And I sincerely doubt that fans will care about any Micky Mouse consolation tournament.
This. Compared to the Gagarin Cup this new trophy is a Vladimir Komarov Cup.

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01-22-2013, 12:16 PM
  #23
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[QUOTE=vorky;58083901]I agree for 99%

Do you know why KHL adopted conference/division model in 2008 instead of classic european model (two home/away games against each other)? Yes, to reduce travelling costs. It worked until euro expansion. KHL is developing, and time zones will not be a problem in future (when league is fully developed, meanig no more expansion), at least not so much problem as today. Give KHL a time.


Bold part is evidence you dont understand the "project" KHL-VHL-MHL. One of reason why was MHL created was to play games at appropriate arenas, not training rinks as before. You know, MHL wants to attract fans to visit games. Therefore better arenas. Why do you think there is no austrian club in MHL this season? Because they had problems with arena... training rink=no MHL.

Quote:
Anyway, hockey arenas should serve for hockey first./QUOTE]
tell it to owners of arenas. They wil not share your point of view. Many of them.

Which AUT clubs had problems with arena ? And what kind of problems ?

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01-22-2013, 12:29 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by CroHabitant View Post
Which AUT clubs had problems with arena ? And what kind of problems ?
He's talking about the junior teams of Salzburg and Vienna who are currently playing in the EBYSL. There were talks that they wanted to join the KHL junior league MHL.

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01-22-2013, 12:31 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by CroHabitant View Post
Which AUT clubs had problems with arena ? And what kind of problems ?
Nothing serious, only rumours. And who knows who was behind scenes. I would say that some czech/slovak as in Patriot... it all happened after Tatranski Vlci collapse last summer.

IMO it was brand new club, located somewhere in Tirol I hope. I could give you links for articles if you can read slovak. Problem was that there was problems with roof. No roof and club was not able to build it within a few weeks to start season 12/13.

Btw, Red Bull Salzburg and Wien Capitals want to join MHL next season acc to rumours. More info in MHL thread.

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