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Old
12-14-2012, 02:23 PM
  #251
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We should just select players from the OHL for an entire draft and see how that works out. We are as bad in the QMJHL as we are in the WHL, and it seems like our European scouting hasn't been great either.

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12-14-2012, 02:42 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I haven't had a chance to watch Dickinson since the beginning of the season but his production over the past 15 games has been disappointing to say the least. I was personally hoping for an upwards trend over the season.
Keep in mind that while he's listed everywhere as LW, he's there top Center.

Listen to Scott Walker on the TSN draft center podcast, he absolutely gushes over him.

Production is fair to question, but he's the top center on a good team, while being a fairly young (july birthdate), physically immature kid.

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12-14-2012, 02:42 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
We should just select players from the OHL for an entire draft and see how that works out. We are as bad in the QMJHL as we are in the WHL, and it seems like our European scouting hasn't been great either.
OHL and USNTDP kids. It would be an interesting case study for sure.

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12-14-2012, 06:30 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
OHL and USNTDP kids. It would be an interesting case study for sure.

Under Gillis

OHL picks

Brendan Gaunce
Nicklas Jensen
Frank Corrado
Alex Friesen
Cody Hodgson

QMJHL picks

Alexandre Mallet
David Honzik
Alexandre Grenier
Adam Polasek
Sawyer Hannay (gross)
Steven Anthony
Yann Sauve


WHL picks

Prabh Rai
Morgan Clark


Europe

Ludwig Blomstrand
Pathrik Westerholm
Henrik Tommernes
Anton Rodin
Jonathan Iilhahti
Peter Andersson
Mats Froshaug

College

Joe Cannata
Kevin Connauton
Jordan Schroeder

High School

Matthew Beattie
Joseph Labate
Patrick McNally

Canadian Junior

Ben Hutton
Wesley Myron
Jeremy Price


Last edited by Lundface: 12-14-2012 at 06:43 PM.
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12-14-2012, 07:21 PM
  #255
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Considered to be a weaker year for the OHL this season, depth wise. So i'm not sure this is a good year to test that theory

When i watched a couple of games with the London Knights, i went in trying to focus on Domi. Mainly came out impressed with Remi Elie. Don't look at his numbers because I don't think its a reflection as to how he will progress. He has an engine that never stops running, he is a beast on the forecheck, will make you pay along the boards in a race for the puck. A north south kind of a player, full of energy and a good defensive game. Has the work ethic, physical game, and tenacity to make it to the NHL in a bottom 6 role. A coach's dream and fan favorite kind of guy. I think he could be a good value pick in the later rounds.

An article if you want to read about him from another source: http://www.hockeyprospect.com/2013-n...draft-prospect

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12-14-2012, 07:23 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Considered to be a weaker year for the OHL this season, depth wise. So i'm not sure this is a good year to test that theory

When i watched a couple of games with the London Knights, i went in trying to focus on Domi. Mainly came out impressed with Remi Elie. Don't look at his numbers because I don't think its a reflection as to how he will progress. He has an engine that never stops running, he is a beast on the forecheck, will make you pay along the boards in a race for the puck. A north south kind of a player, full of energy and a good defensive game. Has the work ethic, physical game, and tenacity to make it to the NHL in a bottom 6 role. A coach's dream and fan favorite kind of guy. I think he could be a good value pick in the later rounds.

An article if you want to read about him from another source: http://www.hockeyprospect.com/2013-n...draft-prospect
Yeah he impresses every time.

Not sure if anyone has seen the draft meetings video on Columbus' site, but John Davidson mentions him, even uses the good 'north-south' term as you.

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12-14-2012, 07:30 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
Under Gillis

OHL picks

Brendan Gaunce
Nicklas Jensen
Frank Corrado
Alex Friesen
Cody Hodgson


QMJHL picks

Alexandre Mallet
David Honzik
Alexandre Grenier
Adam Polasek

Sawyer Hannay (gross)
Steven Anthony
Yann Sauve


WHL picks

Prabh Rai
Morgan Clark


Europe

Ludwig Blomstrand
Pathrik Westerholm
Henrik Tommernes
Anton Rodin

Jonathan Iilhahti
Peter Andersson
Mats Froshaug

College

Joe Cannata
Kevin Connauton
Jordan Schroeder

High School

Matthew Beattie
Joseph Labate
Patrick McNally


Canadian Junior

Ben Hutton
Wesley Myron
Jeremy Price
All the italics are decent picks. Nothing special yet, but it's not terrible. We're average to below average. QMJHL and WHL are awful though.

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12-14-2012, 07:36 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
All the italics are decent picks. Nothing special yet, but it's not terrible. We're average to below average. QMJHL and WHL are awful though.
I don't quite agree with you, I think a few of them haven't been decent.

(italics don't show up in quotes)

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Old
12-14-2012, 08:15 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
Under Gillis

OHL picks

Brendan Gaunce
Nicklas Jensen
Frank Corrado
Alex Friesen
Cody Hodgson

B+

QMJHL picks

Alexandre Mallet
David Honzik
Alexandre Grenier
Adam Polasek
Sawyer Hannay (gross)
Steven Anthony
Yann Sauve


D+

WHL picks

Prabh Rai
Morgan Clark


F

Europe

Ludwig Blomstrand
Pathrik Westerholm
Henrik Tommernes
Anton Rodin
Jonathan Iilhahti
Peter Andersson
Mats Froshaug

C-

College

Joe Cannata
Kevin Connauton
Jordan Schroeder

B

High School

Matthew Beattie
Joseph Labate
Patrick McNally

B

Canadian Junior

Ben Hutton
Wesley Myron
Jeremy Price

B
OHL B+
QMJHL D+
WHL F-
Europe C-
NCAA B
High School B- Too early to tell, McNally/Labate seem decent so far.
Canadian Jr. B- Too early to tell, Price is the standout.

Overall grade: C-

Too much failure and missed opportunity in two of the biggest leagues full of some of the best prospects in all of hockey in the WHL and QMJHL. European picks have been lack-lustre. OHL is the only competent branch of scouting at this point. NCAA bound players or NCAA players have been decent, but still haven't hit the NHL yet.

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Old
12-14-2012, 08:56 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Considered to be a weaker year for the OHL this season, depth wise. So i'm not sure this is a good year to test that theory

When i watched a couple of games with the London Knights, i went in trying to focus on Domi. Mainly came out impressed with Remi Elie. Don't look at his numbers because I don't think its a reflection as to how he will progress. He has an engine that never stops running, he is a beast on the forecheck, will make you pay along the boards in a race for the puck. A north south kind of a player, full of energy and a good defensive game. Has the work ethic, physical game, and tenacity to make it to the NHL in a bottom 6 role. A coach's dream and fan favorite kind of guy. I think he could be a good value pick in the later rounds.

An article if you want to read about him from another source: http://www.hockeyprospect.com/2013-n...draft-prospect


What is your opinion of Horvat? He seems to be turning up the PPG lately.

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Old
12-14-2012, 08:57 PM
  #261
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Its amazing how little faith fans have in our Draft

To be fair its been horrid, but its not all that bad compared to some of the teams out there, we are absolutely average, but so are 20 other teams, there are only a handful of teams pulling out gold these days and I know we all admire Detroit so much but I honestly don't think they are as deserving of the awe they seem to inspire. The thing I will say about Detroit is they do seem to do well with so little ( Detroit has only had 5 first round picks in the last 15 years, and some of those years they didn't even pick until the 3rd-4th round )

People need to take the time to look into the draft class before they pick apart the players we selected, Yay Yann Suave is about as close to a bust as you can get right now but 90 percent of the 2nd round is looking that way. Also look at the number of players playing on the team, how many of those were drafted by their own team.

Vancouver is at 9 and that doesn't include Tanev and Burrows, I imagine Schroeder and Lack will be suiting up this season so that number increases

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12-14-2012, 09:40 PM
  #262
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I think it's useful to see in what round these prospects were drafted. My additions in bold...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
Under Gillis

OHL picks

Brendan Gaunce - 1st rounder
Nicklas Jensen - 1st rounder
Frank Corrado - 5th rounder
Alex Friesen - 6th rounder
Cody Hodgson - 1st rounder

"Average" Round - 2.8

QMJHL picks

Alexandre Mallet - 2nd rounder
David Honzik - 3rd rounder
Alexandre Grenier - 3rd rounder
Adam Polasek - 5th rounder
Sawyer Hannay (gross) - 7th rounder
Steven Anthony - 7th rounder
Yann Sauve - 2nd rounder


"Average" Round - 4.1

WHL picks

Prabh Rai - 5th rounder
Morgan Clark - 7th rounder


"Average" Round - 6

Europe

Ludwig Blomstrand - 4th rounder
Pathrik Westerholm - 6th rounder
Henrik Tommernes - 7th rounder
Anton Rodin - 2nd rounder
Jonathan Iilhahti - 6th rounder
Peter Andersson - 5th rounder
Mats Froshaug - 6th rounder

"Average" Round - 5.1

College

Joe Cannata - 6th rounder
Kevin Connauton - 3rd rounder
Jordan Schroeder - 1st rounder

"Average" Round - 3.3

High School

Matthew Beattie - 7th rounder
Joseph Labate - 4th rounder
Patrick McNally - 4th rounder

Average Round - 5

Canadian Junior

Ben Hutton - 5th rounder
Wesley Myron - 6th rounder
Jeremy Price - 4th rounder

Average Round - 5

It's not really surprising that most of the places we're "good" at drafting from are also the places we tend to draft higher (College, OHL).


Last edited by El Duderino: 12-14-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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Old
12-14-2012, 09:45 PM
  #263
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It'd be so awesome to get someone like Shinkaruk, Drouin or Monahan. We desperately need a blue chip offensive star coming through the pipeline.

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12-14-2012, 10:18 PM
  #264
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That list does make it pretty black and white which of our scouts actually have an eye for talent.
I think Gillis needs to take his unconventional approach to a new level and hire some scientists to clone our Ontario scouts and send an army of them out west.

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Old
12-15-2012, 01:39 AM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerSTUzzi View Post
What is your opinion of Horvat? He seems to be turning up the PPG lately.
I think what stood out to me most when i saw him was how well he reads the game in all zones. Is the type of guy who will be first in the corners, won't give up on a puck battle, and will get the puck to his linemates. Strong defensively, but what surprised me was his passing ability, better than i would have thought.

Seems like another guy coach's would really enjoy; can throw him out there in every situation, shutting down other lines, strong forechecking, and hardworking kind of offense. A guy you win with. And from what i read, he plays all 3 forward positions, but played C when i watched. Safe pick.

Again seemed more noticable than Domi, maybe i am just catching bad games for Domi... Anyone with an opinion on Domi?

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12-15-2012, 03:12 PM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanBulisPiggyBack View Post
Its amazing how little faith fans have in our Draft

To be fair its been horrid, but its not all that bad compared to some of the teams out there, we are absolutely average, but so are 20 other teams, there are only a handful of teams pulling out gold these days and I know we all admire Detroit so much but I honestly don't think they are as deserving of the awe they seem to inspire. The thing I will say about Detroit is they do seem to do well with so little ( Detroit has only had 5 first round picks in the last 15 years, and some of those years they didn't even pick until the 3rd-4th round )

People need to take the time to look into the draft class before they pick apart the players we selected, Yay Yann Suave is about as close to a bust as you can get right now but 90 percent of the 2nd round is looking that way. Also look at the number of players playing on the team, how many of those were drafted by their own team.

Vancouver is at 9 and that doesn't include Tanev and Burrows, I imagine Schroeder and Lack will be suiting up this season so that number increases
I say we are below average for sure... the last prospect we drafted that is able to play more than a season on our main roster is Mason Raymond. We also have one of the worst prospect pool currently.

Our scouts r horrible at drafting after the 1st round.


Last edited by jigsaw99: 12-15-2012 at 03:18 PM.
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12-15-2012, 03:57 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by jigsaw99 View Post
I say we are below average for sure... the last prospect we drafted that is able to play more than a season on our main roster is Mason Raymond. We also have one of the worst prospect pool currently.

Our scouts r horrible at drafting after the 1st round.
I wouldn't say we have been horrible. THe 2007 draft completely screwed us but we have decent prospects (not saying high end or elite) in:

Frank Corrado - 5th rounder
Adam Polasek - 5th rounder
Ludwig Blomstrand - 4th rounder
Henrik Tommernes - 7th rounder
Peter Andersson - 5th rounder
Joe Cannata - 6th rounder
Matthew Beattie - 7th rounder
Joseph Labate - 4th rounder
Patrick McNally - 4th rounder
Ben Hutton - 5th rounder
Wesley Myron - 6th rounder
Jeremy Price - 4th rounder


I'm not defending our scouts, we have some issues, but if you look at a lot of teams that have picked between 20-30 the last 6 years they have just as much garbage as we do.

Boston between 2007-2009 best picks are Jordan Caron and Joe Colborne

Chicago between 2007-2009 best picks are Ben Smith, Kruger and Dylan Olsen.

Philly outside of their first rounders (They are pretty amazing but picked much higher, besides Giroux when we picked Grabner ahead of him...oh the horror) are just as bad as us, if not worse. In the later rounds, between 2006-2011, their best 3rd or later pick is Eric Wellwood.


Last edited by BerSTUzzi: 12-15-2012 at 04:10 PM.
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Old
12-15-2012, 04:03 PM
  #268
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Yeah, 2007 had a horrible impact on our prospect pool. But 2008 didn't help either and that was before Gillis got a chance to revamp how the scouting is done. If you compare 2008 to 2009 it's night and day. I'm personally glad Gillis at least ignored our scouts and picked Hodgson in the 1st round, otherwise 2008 would've been a complete disaster.

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12-15-2012, 09:03 PM
  #269
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ISS continues to be the only list out there that doesn't even have Mantha in their Top 30: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...spect-rankings

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12-15-2012, 09:09 PM
  #270
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ISS continues to be the only list out there that doesn't even have Mantha in their Top 30: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...spect-rankings
Crazy to see Morin in the top 30. Stay at home d-men with next to no offense.

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12-16-2012, 02:56 AM
  #271
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How high is Nic Petan expected to go? Currently third in WHL for points, even ahead of teammate Ty Rattie. Is his size going to prevent him from being drafted in higher rounds?


Just interested because I used to live down his street, but I never knew that until recently.

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12-16-2012, 01:40 PM
  #272
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Quote:
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It'd be so awesome to get someone like Shinkaruk, Drouin or Monahan. We desperately need a blue chip offensive star coming through the pipeline.
This.

Our team is short a top 6 forward right now, and I don't see any of our prospects (maybe Jensen?) being sure shot top 6 forwards going forward. We have a few that look good (Schroeder and Kassian) but both have warts in their game that could prevent them from taking that step. Outside of those 3 we really have no one. Who's going to lead this team in the future? One of the three that you mention would be huge for this organization (at least until we screw it up by constantly sending them back to juniors, then throwing them to the Wolves for a few years and stunting their development).

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12-16-2012, 02:35 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maroon 6 View Post
How high is Nic Petan expected to go? Currently third in WHL for points, even ahead of teammate Ty Rattie. Is his size going to prevent him from being drafted in higher rounds?


Just interested because I used to live down his street, but I never knew that until recently.
I've only seen one game early in the season and I liked him. Didn't realize he exploded in scoring so much. When I watched him he had something like 10 points in 9 games. Since November 1st he has 36 in 19 games.

I know Portland is an amazing team but man, those are sick numbers at his age — on any team. I'm guessing the 2nd/3rd round projections are pretty much moot at this point.

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12-16-2012, 02:37 PM
  #274
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BTW, I was at the Giants game on Friday and paid close attention to Alex Forsberg for Prince George. Wow, I don't know how he was highly touted a year ago but he really didn't look that good at all. At this point I couldn't justify picking him higher than round 5 or 6.

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12-16-2012, 03:50 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
BTW, I was at the Giants game on Friday and paid close attention to Alex Forsberg for Prince George. Wow, I don't know how he was highly touted a year ago but he really didn't look that good at all. At this point I couldn't justify picking him higher than round 5 or 6.
Yeah, his name was out there for a bit. I'll see if I can bring a thread or two up and get some nice, hyped-up posts if I can for entertainment purposes. But has he ever fallen off a cliff. Reminds me a bit of Shane McColgan a few years back. That's why 14/15-year old prospects are so unpredictable because they are far from developing completely.

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