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Old
02-23-2013, 12:25 PM
  #626
arsmaster
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Originally Posted by BerSTUzzi View Post
I know this is a crazy notion but I wouldn't mind picking up one or two of the Vancouver Giants (I know WHL and same town...crazy). I like what I see in Geertsen and Houck, the team is rebuilding this year but looks prime for a solid turn around in the next few years. Both are mid-round picks.
I like both those guys too.

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02-23-2013, 12:57 PM
  #627
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Fair enough.

I just don't think bgav was comparing them as players.

And since Lazar seems to be in the 20's by consensus (Mackenzie, Button, CSS, THW, FC etc) him rising into the top 10, could be similar to Skinner's rise.

I agree the players are nothing a like (hence why I used Petan and Shikaruk as comps).

On the topic, who of recent draftees could be similar to Lazar?

Scored again yesterday in case nobody noticed, I believe that is 14 goals and 2 assists in his last 13 or 14 games.
Bang on. Wasn't comparing them as players at all. But the way I put it did make it look like i was


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02-23-2013, 01:16 PM
  #628
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He could be.

Watched Regina play Moose Jaw last night on Shaw.

He played pretty well.

Scored a nice goal driving hard to the net (garbage goal).

Kid has a really good wrister.

I was disappointed in his dzone play. Soft back check and trying to cheat the zone directly led to a goal against.

He's a good player.

I favour others though. Guess it just depends on who's available.
Thanks...I think he has the skill but I've only watched him once, and was not aware of his defensive weakness...so who would you take if there isn't a Lazar caliber player who fell to us?

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02-23-2013, 01:28 PM
  #629
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Well my wish, obviously is that we win the cup, but also move Luongo at the draft....take Lazar early with the safe pick, and take Petan 30th. Then identify the bigger skilled project forwards that drop beyond that.

Who am I kidding though, 2 WHLers in the first round, with one being 5'8"....pretty unlikely, although when I look at Petan, I still think he has a little bit of growing left, not nearly the defined, muscular short guy Schoreder was at the draft.
Yeah, I like Petan. I thought he was a sure-first 1st round when he was still talked about as a 2nd-3rd round pick. Just trying to figure out how he fits into the organization, but I guess that can be sorted out later. The Lightning seem to do just fine with St Louis and Conacher. I guess as long as these guys play bigger than their size it doesn't truly matter... just look at Marchand.

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02-23-2013, 01:46 PM
  #630
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Thanks...I think he has the skill but I've only watched him once, and was not aware of his defensive weakness...so who would you take if there isn't a Lazar caliber player who fell to us?
I'm not so sure his defensive game is a weakness, because watching him before I didn't see it.

Seemed like it was the case of one individual play (that I happened to point out).

I'd definitely take a forward that is for sure.

One guy I have not seen, but love the scouting reports is JT Compher. Skilled, smart and ultra competitive. A little small (5'11" to 6'0") but I want highly competitive smart hockey players.
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Yeah, I like Petan. I thought he was a sure-first 1st round when he was still talked about as a 2nd-3rd round pick. Just trying to figure out how he fits into the organization, but I guess that can be sorted out later. The Lightning seem to do just fine with St Louis and Conacher. I guess as long as these guys play bigger than their size it doesn't truly matter... just look at Marchand.
Thing with Marchand is, he can play that way because of his surroundings.

Highly doubt Marchand is anywhere near as effective as he has been to begin his NHL career anywhere else but Boston. He has a body guard on every line and dpair.

Petan's size not being a factor was shown to all at the Top Prospects game when he put Sam Morin (6'7" 200+) on his back and shielded him off to score. I don't worry about him going into traffic.

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02-23-2013, 02:13 PM
  #631
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I like Petan. The kid is a highly skilled forward who isn't afraid of the dirty area's. He'd be good value at where we are looking at.

Similar value as the Schroeder pick.

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02-23-2013, 02:15 PM
  #632
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Should pick Taylor Cammarata too. Make it the year of the midgets after we only picked ogres last year.

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02-23-2013, 02:29 PM
  #633
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What are peoples thoughts on Bo Horvat?

And could you guys imagine if the bruins ended up with Lazar? Puke

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02-23-2013, 02:58 PM
  #634
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Ha! Imagine having a draft of Petan, Subban, Cammarata, and Andrighetto. Tiny, but lots of upside there. Would be very interesting to watch them develop.

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02-23-2013, 03:17 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Well my wish, obviously is that we win the cup, but also move Luongo at the draft....take Lazar early with the safe pick, and take Petan 30th. Then identify the bigger skilled project forwards that drop beyond that.

Who am I kidding though, 2 WHLers in the first round, with one being 5'8"....pretty unlikely, although when I look at Petan, I still think he has a little bit of growing left, not nearly the defined, muscular short guy Schoreder was at the draft.
That is pretty much my ideal scenario as well, though I’m not settled on any particular player(s) in the 1st round so long as they’re skilled forwards.

My take on size: nothing wrong with having one or two 5’8 types so long as you have equal or more heavyweight bruisers who get good minutes. If everybody is around 6’1, buck 90 with little to no pugilistic ability then we’ll continue to get abused, no matter the determination. Bruins are thought of as big and intimidating almost entirely because Lucic is top 6 and Chara plays half the game. Take them out of the game and watch Marchand’s bravery plummet.

This is why it’s so vital that Kassian takes next step and solidifies at least a top 9 role for now with a chance to move up when he hits his prime. Get another like him plus a genuine SOB D man who plays top 4 and we’re free to draft all the Petans we like. Having a tough 4th line is meaningless since everybody has them and the 5 minutes they get cancels out.

But as MG said, its so hard getting these guys. I suspect he won’t even look at a Petan type until he sees how Schroeder pans out.

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02-23-2013, 03:26 PM
  #636
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[QUOTE=arsmaster;60309469]I'm not so sure his defensive game is a weakness, because watching him before I didn't see it.

Seemed like it was the case of one individual play (that I happened to point out).

I'd definitely take a forward that is for sure.

One guy I have not seen, but love the scouting reports is JT Compher. Skilled, smart and ultra competitive. A little small (5'11" to 6'0") but I want highly competitive smart hockey players.

Agreed...skill and ice Q are the major things for me, and on that note I'd love a Petan,Klimchuk,or Compher(if the scouting reports are accurate), furthermore if we could acquire another 1st I'd love one of Lazar, or Gauthier...thanks again for your comments

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02-23-2013, 03:58 PM
  #637
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[QUOTE=arsmaster;60309469]I'm not so sure his defensive game is a weakness, because watching him before I didn't see it.

Seemed like it was the case of one individual play (that I happened to point out).

I'd definitely take a forward that is for sure.

One guy I have not seen, but love the scouting reports is JT Compher. Skilled, smart and ultra competitive. A little small (5'11" to 6'0") but I want highly competitive smart hockey players.

Agreed...skill and ice Q are the major things for me, and on that note I'd love a Petan,Klimchuk,or Compher(if the scouting reports are accurate), furthermore if we could acquire another 1st I'd love one of Lazar, or Gauthier...thanks again for your comments

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02-23-2013, 04:28 PM
  #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bgav View Post
What are peoples thoughts on Bo Horvat?

And could you guys imagine if the bruins ended up with Lazar? Puke
Have heard great things of horvat.

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Old
02-23-2013, 06:25 PM
  #639
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What are peoples thoughts on Bo Horvat?
I really like him and would easily take him over what appears to be HF Vancouver's favorite OHL selection in our range, Dickinson.

He is a very very smart player all over the ice, under-rated skill, likes to drive to the net with the puck and can play in all situations. Add in his compete level and you have a great (yet safe) player in the making. There's very little weakness in his game. Reminiscent of Mike Richards in his draft year.

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02-23-2013, 06:31 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Yeah, I like Petan. I thought he was a sure-first 1st round when he was still talked about as a 2nd-3rd round pick. Just trying to figure out how he fits into the organization, but I guess that can be sorted out later. The Lightning seem to do just fine with St Louis and Conacher. I guess as long as these guys play bigger than their size it doesn't truly matter... just look at Marchand.
There is always room for 1 small high skilled player in any top 6. If their isn't there is a problem with your top 6. Take the small skill player and move someone else.

In my opinion somewhere beside Kesler would be ideal. Kesler thinks he's Stamkos might as well try and find his MSL.

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02-24-2013, 04:10 PM
  #641
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Quite the play by Drouin...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7YDx...ature=youtu.be

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02-24-2013, 10:12 PM
  #642
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I really like him and would easily take him over what appears to be HF Vancouver's favorite OHL selection in our range, Dickinson.

He is a very very smart player all over the ice, under-rated skill, likes to drive to the net with the puck and can play in all situations. Add in his compete level and you have a great (yet safe) player in the making. There's very little weakness in his game. Reminiscent of Mike Richards in his draft year.
Cheeky first sentence.

You can see why HF Canucks, ie. me and Bleach from what I can tell prefer Dickinson to Horvat. It's a tool thing, he has them all, it's just a question of whether he can put it together.

Horvat is a very good player though, ceiling is quite a bit lower than Dickinson, but anyways.
------

Went and watched the Royals vs Rockets last night. Pretty tough game to get a read on, it was 3-0 before 4 minutes were gone (for Kelowna).

Kelowna is on a completely different level to Victoria, they control the game, seem to always be in the right spot and don't make a lot of mistakes.

Lees played very well IMO, steady eddy, played simple and didn't try and do too much. He played 2nd unit PP, paired with Bowey.

Lees scored a very good power play goal, slap shot top shelf....really nice shot. In and out in a hurry. Also made a nice rush to the net. When he made break out passes, they were also pretty good, easy to receive. I'd have no problem taking Lees in the 4th or later.

Bowey played good, strong skater, by far his best attribute. Took an undisciplined penalty in the 2nd? Got hit hard and went after the guy, dumb penalty and it led to the 3-2 goal for Victoria. Didn't really do too much offensively, but closed the gap late in the neutral zone late in the game in gravy time (7-2 Kelowna) and through a really nice open ice hit, Got jumped skating to the bench, so he didn't have a chance to defend himself, nor did he look interested in doing so. Threw another nice hit on his next shift and also added a PP assist to add salt to Deacon (I think that's who it was) wounds.

Severson was really good too. Don't want to get too deep into it.

Tyson Baillie (2014 eligible) was a standout at forward. Got to the right spots, held the puck up well and scored edit* only scored one goal, mixed Baillie up with Fowlie who had 2.

Kelowna is a really well coached team.

Not many standouts last night for Victoria, Hodges (Florida pick) made a really nice pass to set up Fransoo for a PP goal. Logan Nelson(Buf) was physical every shift, finished all his checks, and got in a scrap with 2014 eligible Riley Staedel late on. Nelson won, but Staedel giving up 30 lbs, a couple inches, and almost 3 years he did pretty well.

About all i got really, fun game to watch, hard to remember too much when I had my 4 and 10 year old with me.

Can't wait for March 10th vs Portland. If Kelowna can spank Vic 8-3 and 7-2 in a weekend, and portland beat down Kelowna in Kelowna a few weeks ago, I think it's going to be even worse when Portland comes to town.


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Old
02-24-2013, 11:20 PM
  #643
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Cheeky first sentence.

You can see why HF Canucks, ie. me and Bleach from what I can tell prefer Dickinson to Horvat. It's a tool thing, he has them all, it's just a question of whether he can put it together.

Horvat is a very good player though, ceiling is quite a bit lower than Dickinson, but anyways.
Cheeky? No way! How else am I to get your attention?

Despite two avid OHL followers displaying concern over Dickinson's on-ice work ethic/consistency (main boards) and my shared concerns (in this thread), I just don't know how you can definitively choose Dickinson over Horvat. Potential is great and Dickinson's flashes of brilliance are great, but if there is no sustaining that on a consistent or even semi-consistent basis, he is a risky pick and does not deserve to be a top 20 pick. Good value in the late 1st round.

If we are looking at tools, what is Horvat missing? He has the tools and is proving on a consistent basis in his effort and proving statistically given his role on the team.

What is their ceiling in your opinion?

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02-24-2013, 11:23 PM
  #644
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I have not seen Dickinson play at all, but what makes him a good pick? I hear a lot of posters mentioning him.

Just looking at his production, it doesn't seem to deserve any considering for the 1st round.

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02-24-2013, 11:36 PM
  #645
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Cheeky? No way! How else am I to get your attention?

Despite two avid OHL followers displaying concern over Dickinson's on-ice work ethic/consistency (main boards) and my shared concerns (in this thread), I just don't know how you can definitively choose Dickinson over Horvat. Potential is great and Dickinson's flashes of brilliance are great, but if there is no sustaining that on a consistent or even semi-consistent basis, he is a risky pick and does not deserve to be a top 20 pick. Good value in the late 1st round.

If we are looking at tools, what is Horvat missing? He has the tools and is proving on a consistent basis in his effort and proving statistically given his role on the team.

What is their ceiling in your opinion?
I like Dickinson's tools better, I didn't say he was definitively a better prospect.

I don't see high end in Horvat, seems similar to Gaunce with a smaller frame and better skating (not a bad thing, Horvat is a very good player).

I'm not saying Dickinson has to be the pick, just what I've seen is really tantalizing, it's why I created that thread on the main boards, I wanted more opinions from more people who watch him more often. ISS has him high, hasn't really dropped him, yet his production has stagnated.

I think if he put it all together he has first liner upside, I don't think Horvat has that.

It's why I'm intrigued.

Dickinson's skating, mostly agility and elusiveness are the big things I like about him, coupled with the large un-developed frame, I think he is someone to keep an eye on.

He scored today, and added an assist. Highlights are ontariohockeyleague.com

He would definitely be a risk, just like someone like Mantha would be. I think both are home run swings. Both are incredibly risky, based on, like you said, the work ethic and consistency. I'm not sure with Dickinson its about work ethic, moreso consistency.

Not sure he'll get much playoff time to show off for the scouts, I think Kitchener (the likely matchup) should probably handle Guelph.

He might get a chance to play a big role for Canada at the U-18's...
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I have not seen Dickinson play at all, but what makes him a good pick? I hear a lot of posters mentioning him.

Just looking at his production, it doesn't seem to deserve any considering for the 1st round.
Production is low, I started a thread on the main prospects board and some people with more viewings have commented.

Again, production isn't the be all and end all. It is important, but not every PPG junior becomes a NHLer.

It's about the raw tools and Dickinson has those.

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02-25-2013, 12:11 AM
  #646
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I like Dickinson's tools better, I didn't say he was definitively a better prospect.
It was Bleach who said this:
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How does Dickinson fall past 20? It would be hard to imagine. Still, I've seen a lot of mocks with him going later and sometimes dropping to the 2nd. Should be interesting.
And then went on to say he'd pick Dickinson and then Horvat. So that's where my perception came from.

I feel Horvat gets sort of under-sold on his upside. I believe he is a guy who can carry a team in the same way Richards did with the Flyers. He may not be as talented in regards to pure skill like Dickinson is, but his will, leadership and compete may lead him to a top line spot.

Fair enough, those are aspects I also like about Dickinson. It's not that I don't like him, he's just not a sure fire selection for me. Enigmatic prospects scare me, Mantha like you mentioned or Gauthier also scares me.

I think looking back, I would choose today's Horvat over draft-day Gaunce. Your thoughts?

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02-25-2013, 12:36 AM
  #647
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What do you guys think of the defensemen who might be available at our position? Hagg(probably will be taken before us), Bowey, McCoshen, any of them stand out to you?

I think that there are just too many talented forwards to merit selecting either Bowey or McCoshen, but if Hagg makes it to us I would want us to strongly consider taking him, I think.

And ISS had Mantha outside of the top-30, he's someone I'm really high on as well, if we could get him, I'd be ecstatic. Probably my favourite player we might have even the slimmest chance of getting. Both are probably unlikely to make it to us, though.

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02-25-2013, 10:58 AM
  #648
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Enigmatic prospects scare me, Mantha like you mentioned or Gauthier also scares me.
I have only seen him once but I thought I read that Gauthier's defensive game actually existed unlike Mantha? As scary as Mantha is he is exactly what this team needs (if he could fix the scary effort part of his game) in a one shot dynamic scorer.

This is what the thescoutingreport.org has on Gauthier
Quote:
Mid-Way through his rookie QMJHL season, Gauthierís decision to stay in Canada over the NCAA route seems like a good one. Heís the type of player every coach dreams about. Heís got size, skill and smarts and he knows how to use all his tools. The towering center is capable of being a good shutdown center while also scoring goals. Gauthier has earned key minutes and the trust of coach Serge Beausoleil which is important for his development moving forward.

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02-25-2013, 11:36 AM
  #649
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I have only seen him once but I thought I read that Gauthier's defensive game actually existed unlike Mantha? As scary as Mantha is he is exactly what this team needs (if he could fix the scary effort part of his game) in a one shot dynamic scorer.

This is what the thescoutingreport.org has on Gauthier
For sure he is better defensively. But per Habs posters (who IMO have the best draft thread around here) watching him consistently, he has been trailing off lately in effort, defensive consciousness and statistically as well. That's why I'm including him in that enigma group.

While we need a one shot dynamic scorer (might have one in Jensen), we do not need anymore enigmatic prospects.

---------------

In regards to McCoshen, completely unrelated to his on ice play but just listening and watching his interviews, he sounds as dumb as a sack of bricks. Just my first impression as mean as it sounds. Wonder if it will affect his interviews.

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02-25-2013, 11:38 AM
  #650
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It was Bleach who said this:

And then went on to say he'd pick Dickinson and then Horvat. So that's where my perception came from.

I feel Horvat gets sort of under-sold on his upside. I believe he is a guy who can carry a team in the same way Richards did with the Flyers. He may not be as talented in regards to pure skill like Dickinson is, but his will, leadership and compete may lead him to a top line spot.

Fair enough, those are aspects I also like about Dickinson. It's not that I don't like him, he's just not a sure fire selection for me. Enigmatic prospects scare me, Mantha like you mentioned or Gauthier also scares me.

I think looking back, I would choose today's Horvat over draft-day Gaunce. Your thoughts?


The Dickinson pick is based on upside. I'd still take him over Horvat right now because of the high end potential. However, I wouldn't be against taking Horvat either. Actually, from the way the team has picked, especially last year, they probably value Horvat than they do Dickinson.

Do you consider Jensen a boom/bust pick? Because that to me is what Dickinson represents. Jensen's game isn't as polished as Gaunce's own, there's a clear difference in the methodology behind each pick. Dickinson falls in line with the Jensen mould, while Horvat in the Gaunce mould. Neither pick wrong, it just depends on what you value more at the time you pick...

Could be the Carter/Richards thing going on in LA. Carter is the one definitely propping up the Kings offense, not Richards, but you would be hard pressed to find a Kings fan say that Carter is just better overall.

Oh, and at the time I mentioned Dickinson not making it past 20, he got ranked in the teens by ISS and he was producing well. Now, he's hit a wall. Big time. So he will undoubtedly drop. That said, if he were consistent, he would be going much higher than VAN would likely pick so...?



Bottom line, I hope the Canucks pick a _good_ top6 level NHL forward. Someone that is versatile. Beyond that, I'm good.

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