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09-28-2012, 01:55 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by 14s incisor View Post
Nice—straight to insults when someone has a different opinion. Right now he is a 2/3 D. If he regains his form from his sophomore year, and maintains it, he's a number 1.
He definitely wasn't using all his potential that he did in his 09/10 year last year, but in the playoffs he was damn close to it. Even if he's not playing like he did in 09/10 he's a really good player and a #1 D-man.

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09-28-2012, 01:56 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Luongo IS a franchise player. And you want to trade someone who is one in order to keep a goalie who might become one?

Also, this teams problem is scoring. If a Luongo trade can't address that, but a Schneider trade could, then it makes sense to trade Schneider.
Not if Luongo wants out, which most his interviews suggest.
No point in keeping a player that doesn't want to be here anymore.

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09-28-2012, 02:27 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Luongo IS a franchise player. And you want to trade someone who is one in order to keep a goalie who might become one?

Also, this teams problem is scoring. If a Luongo trade can't address that, but a Schneider trade could, then it makes sense to trade Schneider.
If it's such folly to trade a bonafide franchise player for one that might become one why would Schneider return significantly more than Luongo?

If this team wants to be a perennial contender than going with the goalie that is 8 years younger makes sense. I don't think anyone that watched this team last season would tell you Luongo looks like the superior of the 2 right now - while Schneider is just entering into his prime years and Luongo is on the cusp of leaving his...

It would take a pretty remarkable offer for Gillis to entertain moving Schneider. That, coupled with very underwhelming offers on our bonafide franchise netminder.

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09-28-2012, 02:33 PM
  #54
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I love Luongo, he is one of my all time favorite Canucks.... however you don't keep the guy who has suggested that it would be best to move on. Whose to say if we keep him he doesn't have this feeling again in a year or 2?

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09-28-2012, 02:41 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
I think Gillis will test his pet theories indefintely! He has serious issues. Why watch him fritter it away? He has had three years in a row of solid post season chances and frittered two away by sitting on his hands at the deadline. FIRE HIM!

Let Davidson, a hockey man, judge whats best for Vancouver, not some crazy agent who relies on man crushes.
Yikes.

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09-28-2012, 03:39 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Luongo IS a franchise player. And you want to trade someone who is one in order to keep a goalie who might become one?

Also, this teams problem is scoring. If a Luongo trade can't address that, but a Schneider trade could, then it makes sense to trade Schneider.
Luongo=Favre

Schneider=Rodgers

Besides, Gillis doesn't get to make the call, Luongo already did. You don't keep guys around that don't want to be here.

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09-28-2012, 03:47 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Luongo=Favre

Schneider=Rodgers

Besides, Gillis doesn't get to make the call, Luongo already did. You don't keep guys around that don't want to be here.
Luongo has never said he doesn't want to be here. He's said Schneider deserves a chance to be a #1, and that it's time to move on, but if Schneider weren't here there's absolutely no reason to say he would want to leave.

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09-28-2012, 03:48 PM
  #58
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So I thought I'd mention this in here because he comes up in relation to Luongo's trade value.. Marlies training camp opened today and after spending a summer with Gary Roberts Nazem Kadri's body fat was determined to be "in the bottom three to five guys in our whole camp and thats unacceptable" by coach Dallas Eakins.

Cam Charron wrote a piece for LeafsNation saying that since Eakins is trying new tests this year we can't draw any conclusions but I highly doubt the Marlies are measuring body fat in a different way than they have previously.

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09-28-2012, 04:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
So I thought I'd mention this in here because he comes up in relation to Luongo's trade value.. Marlies training camp opened today and after spending a summer with Gary Roberts Nazem Kadri's body fat was determined to be "in the bottom three to five guys in our whole camp and thats unacceptable" by coach Dallas Eakins.

Cam Charron wrote a piece for LeafsNation saying that since Eakins is trying new tests this year we can't draw any conclusions but I highly doubt the Marlies are measuring body fat in a different way than they have previously.
Could be from trying to put on mass. A lot of guys lose weight over the course of the season and Kadri is looking to gain size and strength. Hard to imagine somebody training with Gary Roberts would be dogging it...

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09-28-2012, 05:22 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Could be from trying to put on mass. A lot of guys lose weight over the course of the season and Kadri is looking to gain size and strength. Hard to imagine somebody training with Gary Roberts would be dogging it...
I think we should wait until his on-ice performance before judging him. It's possible when trying to gain muscle mass he also gained body fat, but apparently he feels he is in better shape all around than he was before.

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09-28-2012, 06:20 PM
  #61
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I think we should wait until his on-ice performance before judging him. It's possible when trying to gain muscle mass he also gained body fat, but apparently he feels he is in better shape all around than he was before.
More likely he just didn't stick to the plan... Real immature prospect... He thinks he just knows better... Of course he feels in better shape... He probably doesn't feel like his results are that bad... That he's in pretty good shape... That he's being unfairly criticized... Wasn't it Wellwood that said that Lemieux didn't have to train very much either?

If innocent, Kadri could have just come out and said talk to Roberts, I followed his direction and plan... and trained really hard... Talk to Roberts cause he's the expert... If he trained real hard that would have been his response, for sure... I trained really hard and I'm at a loss as to why my body fat increased... Or, I know that when trying to gain muscle mass that fat can also increase... I thought that was common knowledge, he could say in his defense / indirect slight to a shortsighted coach... Also, are they sure the machine is working right that tests for it? If he's innocent, he wouldn't ho and hum about it... Get accused for something that isn't true (sitting on the couch eating potatoe chips), and what's your initial reaction? If Kadri trained really hard, he'd make sure he'd say it, IMHO... He slacked off...

If not this, what would be a warning sign to you that Kadri shouldn't be a centerpiece prospect in a Luongo deal? Kadri has a Kiril Koltsov-type vibe to him, IMHO... except Kadri's less likely to bolt to the KHL on a whim... I think Kadri will / could be a star in the KHL, but only after not makining the jump to the NHL... Do you really think Kadri would fit with AV? Could you just imagine the tact AV would show to a gained body fat result in the media... Our new, shiny prospect that we got for a Grade A goaltender, ripped by the coach... If there's one thing the coaches demand here for a prospect to get a decent shot is exceptional fitness and the right "team first" attitude... Kadri just does not work...

But ok, I'll wait until his on-ice performance before judging him I know Kadri is really skilled... I know Kadri has a chance to be a Ribiero-type, NHL player... If Kadri was a throw-in (in a nice prospect + 1st + Kadri type return), I'd be all for it... but there is no way I think that Kadri should be considered a main piece in a Luongo trade...


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Old
09-28-2012, 06:21 PM
  #62
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Bjugstad.

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Old
09-28-2012, 07:25 PM
  #63
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More likely he just didn't stick to the plan... Real immature prospect... He thinks he just knows better... Of course he feels in better shape... He probably doesn't feel like his results are that bad... That he's in pretty good shape... That he's being unfairly criticized... Wasn't it Wellwood that said that Lemieux didn't have to train very much either?

If innocent, Kadri could have just come out and said talk to Roberts, I followed his direction and plan... and trained really hard... Talk to Roberts cause he's the expert... If he trained real hard that would have been his response, for sure... I trained really hard and I'm at a loss as to why my body fat increased... Or, I know that when trying to gain muscle mass that fat can also increase... I thought that was common knowledge, he could say in his defense / indirect slight to a shortsighted coach... Also, are they sure the machine is working right that tests for it? If he's innocent, he wouldn't ho and hum about it... Get accused for something that isn't true (sitting on the couch eating potatoe chips), and what's your initial reaction? If Kadri trained really hard, he'd make sure he'd say it, IMHO... He slacked off...

If not this, what would be a warning sign to you that Kadri shouldn't be a centerpiece prospect in a Luongo deal? Kadri has a Kiril Koltsov-type vibe to him, IMHO... except Kadri's less likely to bolt to the KHL on a whim... I think Kadri will / could be a star in the KHL, but only after not makining the jump to the NHL... Do you really think Kadri would fit with AV? Could you just imagine the tact AV would show to a gained body fat result in the media... Our new, shiny prospect that we got for a Grade A goaltender, ripped by the coach... If there's one thing the coaches demand here for a prospect to get a decent shot is exceptional fitness and the right "team first" attitude... Kadri just does not work...

But ok, I'll wait until his on-ice performance before judging him I know Kadri is really skilled... I know Kadri has a chance to be a Ribiero-type, NHL player... If Kadri was a throw-in (in a nice prospect + 1st + Kadri type return), I'd be all for it... but there is no way I think that Kadri should be considered a main piece in a Luongo trade...
All that dialogue and all I see from you is conjecture, speculation and assumptions (not to mention all the judgment that comes with it). One would think you trained with him and witnesses his response to the body fat test.

Who knows why he would have a higher body fat count. If he says he is feeling in better shape, then I guess he is. He would know better than anyone.

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09-28-2012, 07:27 PM
  #64
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Bjugstad.
Huberdeau.

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09-28-2012, 07:42 PM
  #65
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All that dialogue and all I see from you is conjecture, speculation and assumptions (not to mention all the judgment that comes with it). One would think you trained with him and witnesses his response to the body fat test.

Who knows why he would have a higher body fat count. If he says he is feeling in better shape, then I guess he is. He would know better than anyone.
His coach thinks he got it from sitting on the couch and eating potatoe chips instead of carrots...

Who knows why he would have a higher body fat count? Wouldn't that be because he has more fat in his body? How would he get that fat? By eating foods high in fat?

This is a thread that is full of conjecture, speculation and assumptions... You're assuming that he feels better because he's saying it... I assume that he's in poor shape because his coach implied it...

Flip a coin...

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09-28-2012, 07:58 PM
  #66
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Bjugstad + Huberdeau.

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Old
09-28-2012, 08:02 PM
  #67
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I don't think body fat is a great indicator of fitness, especially when these guys are all between 5-10%. His coach is obviously calling him out though, which is not good for a prospect Kadri's age. Lets not forget that Schneider had some fitness issue's early in his career as well, I wouldn't write Kadri off completely.

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09-28-2012, 08:16 PM
  #68
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I don't think body fat is a great indicator of fitness, especially when these guys are all between 5-10%. His coach is obviously calling him out though, which is not good for a prospect Kadri's age. Lets not forget that Schneider had some fitness issue's early in his career as well, I wouldn't write Kadri off completely.
Obviously, he's still in real good shape (relatively speaking)... He's being called out though for some reason... I assume the coach isn't happy about it, given the reason, or else why would the coach make a comment about eating potatoe chips?

In the end, I don't care if Kadri is 300 pounds, or 150 pounds... I also don't know Kadri in the real world or his character... But, if I'm playing GM and I am making determinations on Luongo's return value, it's all I've got... Kadri isn't a prospect I'm crazy about because my impression is he's full of too many question marks...

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09-28-2012, 08:25 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I don't think body fat is a great indicator of fitness, especially when these guys are all between 5-10%. His coach is obviously calling him out though, which is not good for a prospect Kadri's age. Lets not forget that Schneider had some fitness issue's early in his career as well, I wouldn't write Kadri off completely.
Agreed. One just has to remember back to Steve Bernier, when he came to training camp all trim and fit and he looked smaller and weaker and the lack of results showed. Body fat is virtually meaningless, unless you are a big fat slob.

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09-28-2012, 08:34 PM
  #70
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Bjugstad + Huberdeau.
Bjugstad + Huberdeau + kulikov + gudbranson

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09-28-2012, 08:42 PM
  #71
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Bjugstad + Huberdeau + kulikov + gudbranson
For that we might have to add Raymond.

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09-28-2012, 09:30 PM
  #72
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if I'm playing GM and I am making determinations on Luongo's return value, it's all I've got... Kadri isn't a prospect I'm crazy about because my impression is he's full of too many question marks...
Gillis doesn't seem like the kind of guy to be swayed by something like that, I think he's shown that he really tries to dig into guys and find out what they're made of. If the Leafs are dangling Kadri, Gillis probably has a guy following him as we speak

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09-28-2012, 09:59 PM
  #73
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Could be from trying to put on mass. A lot of guys lose weight over the course of the season and Kadri is looking to gain size and strength. Hard to imagine somebody training with Gary Roberts would be dogging it...
This would absolutely be it I think. If you read the article, Kadri's body fat has actually dropped % wise from the previous year. One of the old knocks on him was being small and weak on the puck... stands to reason you'd bulk up a bit. And it's extremely difficult to lose a large amount of fat while bulking.

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09-28-2012, 10:37 PM
  #74
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This would absolutely be it I think. If you read the article, Kadri's body fat has actually dropped % wise from the previous year. One of the old knocks on him was being small and weak on the puck... stands to reason you'd bulk up a bit. And it's extremely difficult to lose a large amount of fat while bulking.
What's the coaches problem, then? His comments seem a bit harsh if Kadri's result was just a by-product of addressing a weakness...

Edit: Just read the article again: http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=406292. To me, it seems that the coach is unimpressed with Kadri's eating and training... He goes so far to say, "His body fat today is probably in the bottom three to five guys in our whole camp and that's unacceptable," said Marlies head coach Dallas Eakins. "That's the easiest part of coming into camp is eating correctly and training correctly". Kadri, himself, says, "It definitely maybe could've been a little better"... A definitely maybe... which kind of implies that Kadri probably could have done more fitness and eating-wise (not completely out of his control)... It wasn't a definitely not... Not completely the unfortunate result of "doing the right thing" - and addressing a weakness... The coach says Kadri could have done more fitness and eating-wise (easiest part of coming to camp, just a no-brainer)... and Kadri says, I could have maybe done a little more fitness and eating-wise - but I didn't, cause I feel great, I didn't need to do more... What I did was good enough... Am I reading this wrong?

To me, Kadri seems pretty happy with where he's at... The coach seems pretty unimpressed with where Kadri's at... Time will tell if Kadri knows more than the coach, or if the coach knows more than Kadri... My money is on the coach being right... I'm sure the coach has seen many young players come and go... and I'm sure that many young players thought they knew better than the coach... My impression is that the coach is trying to motivate Kadri... Perhaps he sees excellent talent potentially being wasted through things that would/should be in Kadri's control (just conjecture - as a possible reason to call Kadri out like that)... Kadri's response (regardless of the reason for the coach's comments)... Don't worry, just watch me on the ice... I'm lightening in a rod... I feel fantastic...

In the end, it's up to Kadri to prove he belongs in the NHL... I hope he does it... Pretty bloody special thing, IMO... But, I don't want Kadri to prove this or not on the Canucks - not in a return for Luongo (prospects, at the best of times, have question marks if they can make it or not - and Luongo, to me, is real valuable to the right team, at the right time... Luongo should return more)... In a return for Raymond? Sure, could be worth the risk... This isn't a slag on Raymond either (or Kadri)... Raymond takes a lot of flack, but he's a proven NHL player with upside and some nice attributes, IMHO...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 09-29-2012 at 12:05 AM.
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Old
09-29-2012, 12:23 AM
  #75
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Meh. Still want more than bloody Kadri when Lu leaves. Never ceases to blow me away that certain Leafs fans have actually convinced themselves Kadri's worth more.

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