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Old
09-29-2012, 12:25 AM
  #76
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This reminds me a little of the Cody Hodgson situation. Obviously either side could be at fault, or both, or neither, but still.

Burke would have to add to Kadri to make up for the fact he's high risk, when he's getting a proven elite goaltender. A 1st and Kadri have enough potential to make it worth our while, while the risk factor of one or neither panning out sort of balances out Luongo's age/contract.

Although hopefully the market picks up when the season starts.

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09-30-2012, 03:44 PM
  #77
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Nice—straight to insults when someone has a different opinion. Right now he is a 2/3 D. If he regains his form from his sophomore year, and maintains it, he's a number 1.
He was their #1 in the playoffs last year (by a large margin) . Oh, They won the Stanley cup too.

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09-30-2012, 03:59 PM
  #78
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Gillis doesn't seem like the kind of guy to be swayed by something like that, I think he's shown that he really tries to dig into guys and find out what they're made of. If the Leafs are dangling Kadri, Gillis probably has a guy following him as we speak
If the Leafs are dangling Kadri for Luongo, Gillis better hang up.

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09-30-2012, 04:21 PM
  #79
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I'm a physician and I won't even delve into how absolutely wrong and shortsighted this is. Rather than let you take the word of an anonymous internet-goer however, perhaps this article will shed some light in your dim world.

As an additional genetic caveat, males of South Asian descent have a propensity for above-average fat storage, typically in the abdomen. This is part of their genetic background, and not at all an indicator of physical health or aptitude; an elite South Asian athlete will likely have a higher BF% than one of Caucasian or African descent.
Found this, interesting post. Reminds me of the Hodgson situation even more now, with management assuming a player was trying to take it easy, when perhaps that's not the case.

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09-30-2012, 05:24 PM
  #80
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Why all this talk about Kadri? I don't think Burke would be at all interested in moving him, and the Canucks wouldn't be interested anyways. Gillis was pretty clear that his mandate for the offseason was to get younger and grittier, Kadri is young, but he would make our top six even softer than it was two seasons ago. Gillis even stated when he made the Kassian trade that Hodgson was expendable because we had enough skill in the lineup without him, so why acquire Kadri?

The Canuck are almost certainly looking to add a quality checking center, a guy who can also move up if need be and contribute offensively. A Kieth Primeau kind of player, and someone who can replace Malhotra in the longer term.

The leafs do have a couple of players in that category, though they each are missing one element of what the Canucks are indicating that they are looking for. Add to that that Toronto certainly got scratched off of Lou's interest list the moment that Allaire was fired, at the very least it won't be as easy to convince him of the benifits of moving to the gong show at the center of the hockey universe where he would be expected to play savior and messiah all over again.

He wants to go to Florida, and Florida just happens to have just the kind of piece the Canucks are looking for in Shawn Mattias. To me that is the heart of a good Luongo deal, you can throw other bits and pieces around that to make it more sensible and resolve any cap issues. The most difficult part of the trade is resolving the the salary discrepancy between the two of them, and not just he cap hit. In Florida's case out of pocket money is more important than cap considerations, and Lou is due a cool $10,000,000 this coming season, that is a lot of money for one of the leagues charity cases to take on. Slending Jovo back could create a bit more room, and wouldn't be as horrible a move as many here think. He can play the right side and would add a veteran presence to the third pair and its not like there are any free agents left out there for us to spend that cap space on anyways. But that still leaves Florida increasing their real payroll by around $6 million dollars during a lockout shortened year, ouch.

And so we wait for the new CBA, and hope that there is some sort of loophole that lets the Canucks eat some salary, like a buyout trade clause, where a team can agree to buy out a portion of a players salary when trading them. So the Canucks could 'buy out' half of Lous salary this year, pay a buyout penalty against the cap, and be done with it. Something like that anyways.

Anyways, my point is that there is a trade there, but we are going to have to wait for the new CBA before a deal can get done.

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09-30-2012, 05:36 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Whale View Post
Why all this talk about Kadri? I don't think Burke would be at all interested in moving him, and the Canucks wouldn't be interested anyways. Gillis was pretty clear that his mandate for the offseason was to get younger and grittier, Kadri is young, but he would make our top six even softer than it was two seasons ago. Gillis even stated when he made the Kassian trade that Hodgson was expendable because we had enough skill in the lineup without him, so why acquire Kadri?

The Canuck are almost certainly looking to add a quality checking center, a guy who can also move up if need be and contribute offensively. A Kieth Primeau kind of player, and someone who can replace Malhotra in the longer term.

The leafs do have a couple of players in that category, though they each are missing one element of what the Canucks are indicating that they are looking for. Add to that that Toronto certainly got scratched off of Lou's interest list the moment that Allaire was fired, at the very least it won't be as easy to convince him of the benifits of moving to the gong show at the center of the hockey universe where he would be expected to play savior and messiah all over again.

He wants to go to Florida, and Florida just happens to have just the kind of piece the Canucks are looking for in Shawn Mattias. To me that is the heart of a good Luongo deal, you can throw other bits and pieces around that to make it more sensible and resolve any cap issues. The most difficult part of the trade is resolving the the salary discrepancy between the two of them, and not just he cap hit. In Florida's case out of pocket money is more important than cap considerations, and Lou is due a cool $10,000,000 this coming season, that is a lot of money for one of the leagues charity cases to take on. Slending Jovo back could create a bit more room, and wouldn't be as horrible a move as many here think. He can play the right side and would add a veteran presence to the third pair and its not like there are any free agents left out there for us to spend that cap space on anyways. But that still leaves Florida increasing their real payroll by around $6 million dollars during a lockout shortened year, ouch.

And so we wait for the new CBA, and hope that there is some sort of loophole that lets the Canucks eat some salary, like a buyout trade clause, where a team can agree to buy out a portion of a players salary when trading them. So the Canucks could 'buy out' half of Lous salary this year, pay a buyout penalty against the cap, and be done with it. Something like that anyways.

Anyways, my point is that there is a trade there, but we are going to have to wait for the new CBA before a deal can get done.
where the hell did you get "Lou is due a cool $10,000,000 this coming season"

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09-30-2012, 05:37 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Whale View Post
Why all this talk about Kadri? I don't think Burke would be at all interested in moving him, and the Canucks wouldn't be interested anyways. Gillis was pretty clear that his mandate for the offseason was to get younger and grittier, Kadri is young, but he would make our top six even softer than it was two seasons ago. Gillis even stated when he made the Kassian trade that Hodgson was expendable because we had enough skill in the lineup without him, so why acquire Kadri?

The Canuck are almost certainly looking to add a quality checking center, a guy who can also move up if need be and contribute offensively. A Kieth Primeau kind of player, and someone who can replace Malhotra in the longer term.

The leafs do have a couple of players in that category, though they each are missing one element of what the Canucks are indicating that they are looking for. Add to that that Toronto certainly got scratched off of Lou's interest list the moment that Allaire was fired, at the very least it won't be as easy to convince him of the benifits of moving to the gong show at the center of the hockey universe where he would be expected to play savior and messiah all over again.

He wants to go to Florida, and Florida just happens to have just the kind of piece the Canucks are looking for in Shawn Mattias. To me that is the heart of a good Luongo deal, you can throw other bits and pieces around that to make it more sensible and resolve any cap issues. The most difficult part of the trade is resolving the the salary discrepancy between the two of them, and not just he cap hit. In Florida's case out of pocket money is more important than cap considerations, and Lou is due a cool $10,000,000 this coming season, that is a lot of money for one of the leagues charity cases to take on. Slending Jovo back could create a bit more room, and wouldn't be as horrible a move as many here think. He can play the right side and would add a veteran presence to the third pair and its not like there are any free agents left out there for us to spend that cap space on anyways. But that still leaves Florida increasing their real payroll by around $6 million dollars during a lockout shortened year, ouch.

And so we wait for the new CBA, and hope that there is some sort of loophole that lets the Canucks eat some salary, like a buyout trade clause, where a team can agree to buy out a portion of a players salary when trading them. So the Canucks could 'buy out' half of Lous salary this year, pay a buyout penalty against the cap, and be done with it. Something like that anyways.

Anyways, my point is that there is a trade there, but we are going to have to wait for the new CBA before a deal can get done.
1. If Shawn Matthias is the "heart" of a Luongo deal and Gillis accepts, he just lost his entire credibility as a GM and should be fired before the ink is dry on the deal.

2. Since when is Luongo due $10m this season?

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09-30-2012, 05:37 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBeautiful View Post
where the hell did you get "Lou is due a cool $10,000,000 this coming season"
I am also curious where he got $10,000,000 from.

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09-30-2012, 06:05 PM
  #84
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As much as Lu wants Florida, if Florida doesn't want him(at least enough to base a deal on more than Shawn Matthias), then he won't be going there.

And Kadri isn't soft, not sure where you got that from.



Man, living in Toronto has made me high on Toronto prospects, it's a little crazy, but w/e.

And ditto on 10 mil.

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09-30-2012, 06:11 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
1. If Shawn Matthias is the "heart" of a Luongo deal and Gillis accepts, he just lost his entire credibility as a GM and should be fired before the ink is dry on the deal.

2. Since when is Luongo due $10m this season?
first impression:

florida

luongo --> bertuzzi --> matthias

hmm, feels right.


thinking about it more:

vancouver

linden --> bertuzzi --> luongo --> matthias?

feels righter. it's like we have another linden.


then:

islanders

jokinen and luongo --> parrish and kvasha --> jeff tambellini

sold.

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09-30-2012, 06:48 PM
  #86
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Why all this talk about Kadri? I don't think Burke would be at all interested in moving him, and the Canucks wouldn't be interested anyways. Gillis was pretty clear that his mandate for the offseason was to get younger and grittier, Kadri is young, but he would make our top six even softer than it was two seasons ago. Gillis even stated when he made the Kassian trade that Hodgson was expendable because we had enough skill in the lineup without him, so why acquire Kadri?

The Canuck are almost certainly looking to add a quality checking center, a guy who can also move up if need be and contribute offensively. A Kieth Primeau kind of player, and someone who can replace Malhotra in the longer term.

The leafs do have a couple of players in that category, though they each are missing one element of what the Canucks are indicating that they are looking for. Add to that that Toronto certainly got scratched off of Lou's interest list the moment that Allaire was fired, at the very least it won't be as easy to convince him of the benifits of moving to the gong show at the center of the hockey universe where he would be expected to play savior and messiah all over again.

He wants to go to Florida, and Florida just happens to have just the kind of piece the Canucks are looking for in Shawn Mattias. To me that is the heart of a good Luongo deal, you can throw other bits and pieces around that to make it more sensible and resolve any cap issues. The most difficult part of the trade is resolving the the salary discrepancy between the two of them, and not just he cap hit. In Florida's case out of pocket money is more important than cap considerations, and Lou is due a cool $10,000,000 this coming season, that is a lot of money for one of the leagues charity cases to take on. Slending Jovo back could create a bit more room, and wouldn't be as horrible a move as many here think. He can play the right side and would add a veteran presence to the third pair and its not like there are any free agents left out there for us to spend that cap space on anyways. But that still leaves Florida increasing their real payroll by around $6 million dollars during a lockout shortened year, ouch.

And so we wait for the new CBA, and hope that there is some sort of loophole that lets the Canucks eat some salary, like a buyout trade clause, where a team can agree to buy out a portion of a players salary when trading them. So the Canucks could 'buy out' half of Lous salary this year, pay a buyout penalty against the cap, and be done with it. Something like that anyways.

Anyways, my point is that there is a trade there, but we are going to have to wait for the new CBA before a deal can get done.
As people have said, Lu's owed $6.7M for next season, not $10M.

Matthias is the exact opposite of a checking centre. He plays sheltered mins in his 3rd line duty, and doesn't have good underlying numbers. He's not an improvement over Malhotra or Lappy.

Jovo has a 35+ contract for 3 more seasons w/ a $4.2M cap hit. His underlying numbers were worse than any current Canuck d-man. Zero chance they take on that contract.

I agree that Florida will have a tough time taking Lu's contract for financial reasons. If they actually want him, Nucks might have to work out some creative way to take $$ back that doesn't affect their available cap space. But I'm not so sure they want him cause of asking price.

There isn't likely to be an ideal situation for Luongo, there rarely is for players like this. Players under contract with 1 team don't get to chose their exact destination if they want out. He can either fight for his starting job back and risk being a back up all season. Or, he can accept a trade to a location where he gets his job back. Even if it's Columbus.

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09-30-2012, 07:14 PM
  #87
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I am also curious where he got $10,000,000 from.
Ooops, my bad, he'll make $6.7 this season, still a lot of money.


Mattias is a Detroit draft pick, and he is probably one of the best young checking centers in the league in his age range. He fights, is a good faceoff man, hits hard, hes huge, plays with a long stick AND he can skate and even has a few moves on the breakaway. He is also an RFA at the end of the season, so he'll be around for a while.

I like to think that GM's know that it takes a team to win hockey, and Mattias is a pretty good fit for us moving forward. He's already better than Malhotra ever was, not knock Manny, but I've never seen him fight or throw any really devestating hits. If we want to be bigger and meaner that third line center spot is one of the only places we have available to do it without trading a player that we don't want to.

That said, he is only a part of any deal for Lou.

Something like

Luongo + Sauve + Alberts

for

Mattias, Jovo and Petrovic

is not a bad deal for example

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09-30-2012, 07:45 PM
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Mattias is a Detroit draft pick, and he is probably one of the best young checking centers in the league in his age range. He fights, is a good faceoff man, hits hard, hes huge, plays with a long stick AND he can skate and even has a few moves on the breakaway. He is also an RFA at the end of the season, so he'll be around for a while.

He's already better than Malhotra ever was, not knock Manny, but I've never seen him fight or throw any really devestating hits.
Mattias is nowhere near as good as Malhotra was for us before the eye injury. Heck, Mattias is miles behind another checking 3rd line centre on his own team, Marcel Goc.

That proposal is terrible. Jovanovski would be one of the worst targets in the entire NHL...

Mattias is redundant with Lapierre on the roster. Both guys ideally play at 4th line centre.

If the Canucks want a stud checking centre it's Marcel Goc they will target from Florida.

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09-30-2012, 08:41 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Mattias is nowhere near as good as Malhotra was for us before the eye injury. Heck, Mattias is miles behind another checking 3rd line centre on his own team, Marcel Goc.

That proposal is terrible. Jovanovski would be one of the worst targets in the entire NHL...

Mattias is redundant with Lapierre on the roster. Both guys ideally play at 4th line centre.

If the Canucks want a stud checking centre it's Marcel Goc they will target from Florida.
I can't speak for everyone else, but if we want our franchise goaltender's value to be a checking center as the main component, someone needs to be fired.

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09-30-2012, 08:51 PM
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I can't speak for everyone else, but if we want our franchise goaltender's value to be a checking center as the main component, someone needs to be fired.
Main component? No.

Roster component? Absolutely.

If Gillis can't get a team to offer up a top 6 forward for Luongo than something based around a strong checking centre and picks or prospects would be the next best thing.

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09-30-2012, 09:09 PM
  #91
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Main component? No.

Roster component? Absolutely.

If Gillis can't get a team to offer up a top 6 forward for Luongo than something based around a strong checking centre and picks or prospects would be the next best thing.
We'd better be talking about Huberdeau level prospects in that case. Goc and a decent prospect for Luongo is horrible.

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09-30-2012, 09:20 PM
  #92
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We'd better be talking about Huberdeau level prospects in that case. Goc and a decent prospect for Luongo is horrible.
Huberdeau and Goc for Luongo? Yikes. Not even in the stratosphere of Luongo's value.

Goc, Petrovic and hopefully a pick would be more in line with reality IMO. Teams just don't move elite level, blue-chip prospects in the cap era.

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09-30-2012, 09:28 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Huberdeau and Goc for Luongo? Yikes. Not even in the stratosphere of Luongo's value.

Goc, Petrovic and hopefully a pick would be more in line with reality IMO. Teams just don't move elite level, blue-chip prospects in the cap era.
Huberdeau is unrealistic. He's going to be a star in the league. Bjugstad + Goc is fair value. I doubt that is what Florida has in mind.

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09-30-2012, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Huberdeau and Goc for Luongo? Yikes. Not even in the stratosphere of Luongo's value.

Goc, Petrovic and hopefully a pick would be more in line with reality IMO. Teams just don't move elite level, blue-chip prospects in the cap era.
That type of trade should get Gillis fired. You don't trade a goalie like Luongo for an average 3rd line center, a decent prospect, and hope to get a pick. I definitely am glad you don't run this team because that's a trade teams make when they decide they don't like winning anymore.

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09-30-2012, 09:34 PM
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That type of trade should get Gillis fired. You don't trade a goalie like Luongo for an average 3rd line center, a decent prospect, and hope to get a pick. I definitely am glad you don't run this team because that's a trade teams make when they decide they don't like winning anymore.


I agree but



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09-30-2012, 09:36 PM
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Huberdeau is unrealistic. He's going to be a star in the league. Bjugstad + Goc is fair value. I doubt that is what Florida has in mind.
The problem is Florida is one of the thinnest teams in the NHL at centre ice - I don't see any scenario in which Tallon is okay with moving 2 pivots for a goaltender...

Petrovic is a more realistic target IMO because Florida already has 2 quality, young blueliners in Kulikov and Gudbranson on the roster. Petrovic brings a skillset similar to Shea Weber, would fill a void in the Canucks system and could potentially crack the roster in the next year or 2. If he pans out, he's an ideal fit on the right side longterm.

IMO Howden and Petrovic are the top prospects Tallon would part with in a Luongo deal - based on the Canucks current roster and pipeline I prefer the young dman. There just isn't a big, nasty, RH shooting, right side dman like Petrovic anywhere to be found.

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09-30-2012, 09:38 PM
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That type of trade should get Gillis fired. You don't trade a goalie like Luongo for an average 3rd line center, a decent prospect, and hope to get a pick. I definitely am glad you don't run this team because that's a trade teams make when they decide they don't like winning anymore.


What you want for Luongo is irrelevant. If that's the best offer Gillis receives from a team Luongo is willing to go to, that's the reality of the situation.

If Gillis holds onto Luongo past the trade deadline he should be fired. The market will dictate the return.

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09-30-2012, 09:45 PM
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If we're getting a good, versatile center then the target would be Goc.

But he more or less brings what Higgins, Hansen, etc. already do so I'm not sure if it would be a good fit. If GMMG is looking to add a mix of size, grit and defense responsibility I doubt he'll deal with Florida.

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09-30-2012, 09:45 PM
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The problem is Florida is one of the thinnest teams in the NHL at centre ice - I don't see any scenario in which Tallon is okay with moving 2 pivots for a goaltender...

Petrovic is a more realistic target IMO because Florida already has 2 quality, young blueliners in Kulikov and Gudbranson on the roster. Petrovic brings a skillset similar to Shea Weber, would fill a void in the Canucks system and could potentially crack the roster in the next year or 2. If he pans out, he's an ideal fit on the right side longterm.

IMO Howden and Petrovic are the top prospects Tallon would part with in a Luongo deal - based on the Canucks current roster and pipeline I prefer the young dman. There just isn't a big, nasty, RH shooting, right side dman like Petrovic anywhere to be found.
But Florida has future all-star Jonathan Huberdeau waiting in the wings. He alone will save their franchise from whatever it is there up against. Selling tickets? I don't know.

And then they have lovable centerman Stephen Weiss who has stayed with the Panthers through thick and thin. Talented guy who had 57 points last season on an offensively-starved team. He's consistently putting up 50-60 point seasons. A very good 2nd line center to me.

And then they have elite 3rd line center Marcel Goc, who can shutdown opposition forwards like it's no big deal. If he's good enough for the Canucks, he's good enough for the Panthers.

But wait! There's more! 4th line center Shawn Matthias, who is potential-packed. Big, strong, hard-hitting and very serviceable on both sides of the puck. And better than Malhotra ever was according to one fan in the history of HF.

Then add on the likes of Grimaldi and Shore. I'd say they are pretty set on center even if they do give up Bjugstad.*

*Most of these words are not mine, they taken right out of the many posters who are IMO underselling Luongo's value just to get a deal done quick. Or Panthers fans. Or Luongo haters.

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09-30-2012, 09:46 PM
  #100
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
The problem is Florida is one of the thinnest teams in the NHL at centre ice - I don't see any scenario in which Tallon is okay with moving 2 pivots for a goaltender...

Petrovic is a more realistic target IMO because Florida already has 2 quality, young blueliners in Kulikov and Gudbranson on the roster. Petrovic brings a skillset similar to Shea Weber, would fill a void in the Canucks system and could potentially crack the roster in the next year or 2. If he pans out, he's an ideal fit on the right side longterm.

IMO Howden and Petrovic are the top prospects Tallon would part with in a Luongo deal - based on the Canucks current roster and pipeline I prefer the young dman. There just isn't a big, nasty, RH shooting, right side dman like Petrovic anywhere to be found.
Goc, Petrovic, + 1st is about the most I would expect from Florida, stretching to the very limit of possibility.

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