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Luongo Thread - The Never Ending Thread (Mod Warning in OP)

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Old
09-30-2012, 10:49 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
But Florida has future all-star Jonathan Huberdeau waiting in the wings.
Huberdeau is expected to play on the wing in the NHL. If he was slotted in as their 2nd line centreman I agree that would make Bjugstad a more realistic target - Don't believe that's the case.

So now this is what Florida's depth looks like up the middle after that proposed Bjugstad/Goc deal...

Weiss
Mattias
Hordichuk
Duco

Not so good.

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09-30-2012, 10:55 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post


What you want for Luongo is irrelevant. If that's the best offer Gillis receives from a team Luongo is willing to go to, that's the reality of the situation.

If Gillis holds onto Luongo past the trade deadline he should be fired. The market will dictate the return.
If that's the best offer Gillis gets then he should hold on to Luongo. You absolutely do not deal an elite goalie like Luongo for spare parts. I honestly can't believe a trade like this was suggested by a Canuck fan. That's like suggesting we could have gotten Rick Nash for Max Lapierre, Kevin Connauton and a 1st round pick. It's absolutely absurd.

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09-30-2012, 10:55 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Huberdeau and Goc for Luongo? Yikes. Not even in the stratosphere of Luongo's value.

Goc, Petrovic and hopefully a pick would be more in line with reality IMO. Teams just don't move elite level, blue-chip prospects in the cap era.
B. Schenn, Eakin, Erixon are 3 high-end prospects traded in the last yr (Sutter, Simmonds, Vorachek are also notable). And there haven't been many trades at all in the last yr.

The Nucks are in a unique situation, one we rarely see. They have an asset for sale, and the return doesn't need to replace the outgoing asset or roster spot in a different position. Pittsburg traded Staal, they needed a C in return. NYR traded Nash, they needed to replace 30 goals in return etc etc. The Canucks already have Luongos replacement. They also have a full roster, and arguably don't need to fill a roster spot. So they are in a unique situation where they can be choosy w/ the return. They can afford to ask for prospects in return, prospects who are perhaps a yr or two away from making the team. It's not to often teams are in a position where they can trade a high end roster player for prospects.

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09-30-2012, 10:57 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
B. Schenn, Eakin, Erixon are 3 high-end prospects traded in the last yr (Sutter, Simmonds, Vorachek are also notable). And there haven't been many trades at all in the last yr.

The Nucks are in a unique situation, one we rarely see. They have an asset for sale, and the return doesn't need to replace the outgoing asset or roster spot in a different position. Pittsburg traded Staal, they needed a C in return. NYR traded Nash, they needed to replace 30 goals in return etc etc. The Canucks already have Luongos replacement. They also have a full roster, and arguably don't need to fill a roster spot. So they are in a unique situation where they can be choosy w/ the return. They can afford to ask for prospects in return, prospects who are perhaps a yr or two away from making the team. It's not to often teams are in a position where they can trade a high end roster player for prospects.
The Canucks do need a top 6 forward if they hope to actually do anything in the playoffs, but a top prospect would be nice too. Regardless, trading Luongo for spare parts is just a terrible terrible return.

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09-30-2012, 10:57 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Huberdeau is expected to play on the wing in the NHL. If he was slotted in as their 2nd line centreman I agree that would make Bjugstad a more realistic target - Don't believe that's the case.

So now this is what Florida's depth looks like up the middle after that proposed Bjugstad/Goc deal...

Weiss
Mattias
Hordichuk
Duco

Not so good.
If we got Bjugstad, I probably wouldn't ask for Goc. Personally.

Bringing their depth back to:

Weiss...Goc...Matthias...whoever. Bring in Luongo and I'm sure lots of second line centers would be willing to win with Florida.

If I was going to use a counter-argument against myself at all in this situation, I would probably say that Florida's problem last year was not goaltending and that Theodore played well. If I'm them I try to somehow acquire top 6 forwards with playmaking attributes. Or get a center.

Which is why I think Luongo isn't going to Florida anyways.

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09-30-2012, 10:57 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If that's the best offer Gillis gets then he should hold on to Luongo. You absolutely do not deal an elite goalie like Luongo for spare parts. I honestly can't believe a trade like this was suggested by a Canuck fan. That's like suggesting we could have gotten Rick Nash for Max Lapierre, Kevin Connauton and a 1st round pick. It's absolutely absurd.
And if Luongo doesn't like this plan?

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09-30-2012, 11:02 PM
  #107
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And if Luongo doesn't like this plan?
Luongo doesnt have a whole lot of choice in the matter. He has a contract, he either fulfills it (which is likely), or he sits at home on his thumb.

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09-30-2012, 11:02 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If that's the best offer Gillis gets then he should hold on to Luongo.
So Gillis should turn down the best offer he gets at the trade deadline, address none of the teams issues, blame our 1st round exit on Luongo for our lack of scoring and hope he gets offered more a few years from now when Luongo is 36? Not a fan of your plan. Luongo's value doesn't go up as he gets older.

Gillis needs to take the best offer he gets before the deadline - anything less will be a catastrophic mistake setting back the franchise a decade while also mistreating our superstar netminder that has acted like a true professional through all of this.

Alex Petrovic was the best defenseman in the WHL last season and brings a combination of size, toughness and skill that is very rare. This guy is an outstading prospect. Not sure why you keep refering to him as an okay prospect?

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09-30-2012, 11:03 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
The Canucks do need a top 6 forward if they hope to actually do anything in the playoffs, but a top prospect would be nice too. Regardless, trading Luongo for spare parts is just a terrible terrible return.
I'm of the opinion they don't need another top 6er. Higgins, Raymond or Kassian should fill that spot easily. In 2013-14 Jensen will likely be on the team, Kassian will def be in a top 6 position. If there's a need around trade deadline, they can always pick someone up.

Totally agree about Luongo, you just don't trade an above avg goaltender for spare parts. There are too many teams looking for quality goaltending, and no other goaltenders on the market for sale. I'm fairly certain Gillis will get what he's looking for. The question is, what is he looking for.

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09-30-2012, 11:08 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
So Gillis should turn down the best offer he gets at the trade deadline, address none of the teams issues, blame our 1st round exit on Luongo for our lack of scoring and hope he gets offered more a few years from now when Luongo is 36? Not a fan of your plan. Luongo's value doesn't go up as he gets older.

Gillis needs to take the best offer he gets before the deadline - anything less will be a catastrophic mistake setting back the franchise a decade while also mistreating our superstar netminder that has acted like a true professional through all of this.

Alex Petrovic was the best defenseman in the WHL last season and brings a combination of size, toughness and skill that is very rare. This guy is an outstading prospect. Not sure why you keep refering to him as an okay prospect?
Not saying I dont like Petrovic as a prospect, but there have been a lot of great WHL defensemen who have never made any significant impact at the AHL level let alone the NHL level. I think Petrovic is a decent prospect, but he's far from a "sure thing".

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09-30-2012, 11:10 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Luongo doesnt have a whole lot of choice in the matter. He has a contract, he either fulfills it (which is likely), or he sits at home on his thumb.
Exactly this. If he doesn't wish to report then he can sit. And if his value decreases, well it isn't as if we are being offered anything of value right now anyways so no real loss.

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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
So Gillis should turn down the best offer he gets at the trade deadline, address none of the teams issues, blame our 1st round exit on Luongo for our lack of scoring and hope he gets offered more a few years from now when Luongo is 36? Not a fan of your plan. Luongo's value doesn't go up as he gets older.

Gillis needs to take the best offer he gets before the deadline - anything less will be a catastrophic mistake setting back the franchise a decade while also mistreating our superstar netminder that has acted like a true professional through all of this.

Alex Petrovic was the best defenseman in the WHL last season and brings a combination of size, toughness and skill that is very rare. This guy is an outstading prospect. Not sure why you keep refering to him as an okay prospect?
If the best offer Gillis gets is spare parts like you suggested, then yes he should turn down that offer. That offer doesn't address any of the teams issues at all anyways, unless you seriously think 20 something point Marcel Goc is going to come in here and score 40 goals.

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I'm of the opinion they don't need another top 6er. Higgins, Raymond or Kassian should fill that spot easily. In 2013-14 Jensen will likely be on the team, Kassian will def be in a top 6 position. If there's a need around trade deadline, they can always pick someone up.

Totally agree about Luongo, you just don't trade an above avg goaltender for spare parts. There are too many teams looking for quality goaltending, and no other goaltenders on the market for sale. I'm fairly certain Gillis will get what he's looking for. The question is, what is he looking for.
Well I disagree vehemently with your opinion. Higgins and Raymond haven't done anything for us in the playoffs...we've struggled to score quite a bit in the past two playoffs. I really don't understand why you think our top 6 is fine. Kassian hasn't shown anything at the NHL level, so to peg him in as a top 6er is kind of ridiculous. It's the kind of thinking that will lead to massive disappointment once again.

I agree with your second paragraph though.

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09-30-2012, 11:11 PM
  #112
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B. Schenn, Eakin, Erixon are 3 high-end prospects traded in the last yr (Sutter, Simmonds, Vorachek are also notable). And there haven't been many trades at all in the last yr.
Huberdeau has the potential to be an elite player - I don't know if any of these prospects have that same upside. Not to mention, none of these players were offered for a guy in Luongo's age range - they all went for 1st line centre calibre forwards under the age of 27. If Luongo was 26-27 I would expect a much more significant return - or if he didn't have a NTC, something Staal, Mike Richards and Jeff Carter did not have.

Who is the best prospect dealt in the cap era for a player in Luongo's age range? That will give us a better picture...

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09-30-2012, 11:13 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Huberdeau has the potential to be an elite player - I don't know if any of these prospects have that same upside. Not to mention, none of these players were offered for a guy in Luongo's age range - they all went for 1st line centre calibre forwards under the age of 27. If Luongo was 26-27 I would expect a much more significant return - or if he didn't have a NTC, something Staal, Mike Richards and Jeff Carter did not have.

Who is the best prospect dealt in the cap era for a player in Luongo's age range? That will give us a better picture...
Well let's follow your plan. Then let's turn around and offer Ben Archibald and Yan Sauve for Corey Perry. Afterall...that is the strategy of teams that like winning right? Give away top players for average prospects?

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09-30-2012, 11:14 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
So Gillis should turn down the best offer he gets at the trade deadline, address none of the teams issues, blame our 1st round exit on Luongo for our lack of scoring and hope he gets offered more a few years from now when Luongo is 36? Not a fan of your plan. Luongo's value doesn't go up as he gets older.

Gillis needs to take the best offer he gets before the deadline - anything less will be a catastrophic mistake setting back the franchise a decade while also mistreating our superstar netminder that has acted like a true professional through all of this.

Alex Petrovic was the best defenseman in the WHL last season and brings a combination of size, toughness and skill that is very rare. This guy is an outstading prospect. Not sure why you keep refering to him as an okay prospect?
Ideally, Gillis gets players that can be impact NHL players now. Short-term I don't see how his plan is much different than yours. Sure you get a good prospect, but they aren't going to jump in and make an impact right away unless they are Tyler Seguin. I don't think we'll get a Tyler Seguin unfortunately.

Personally, I'd like to see Luongo return a top-6 forward in the NHL right now and a depth defenseman rather than some 3rd line center that we may not even need in lieu of Schroeder or Malhotra becoming that. I mean I agree holding on to Luongo one more year without him being useful is a huge mistake and I don't think Aquilini would love that, but we need to get something back we could use right now.

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09-30-2012, 11:19 PM
  #115
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Not saying I dont like Petrovic as a prospect, but there have been a lot of great WHL defensemen who have never made any significant impact at the AHL level let alone the NHL level. I think Petrovic is a decent prospect, but he's far from a "sure thing".
That's the thing with prospects, they're never a sure thing. Petrovic may never play an NHL game - or he might be the next Shea Weber.

It's no different than if Nick Bjugstad is the centrepiece - he too may never play in the NHL...


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If the best offer Gillis gets is spare parts like you suggested, then yes he should turn down that offer. That offer doesn't address any of the teams issues at all anyways, unless you seriously think 20 something point Marcel Goc is going to come in here and score 40 goals.
I take it you didn't watch a single Panther regular season or playoff game last season?

Anyone who knows a lick about the NHL knows Marcel Goc is an excellent two-way, checking 3rd line centre. He absolutely makes the Canucks a better team.

Tell me again how Alex Petrovic doesn't fill an organizational need?

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09-30-2012, 11:21 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
That's the thing with prospects, they're never a sure thing. Petrovic may never play an NHL game - or he might be the next Shea Weber.

It's no different than if Nick Bjugstad is the centrepiece - he too may never play in the NHL...

If thats the case then maybe we should get Huberdeau.

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09-30-2012, 11:22 PM
  #117
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Well let's follow your plan. Then let's turn around and offer Ben Archibald and Yan Sauve for Corey Perry. Afterall...that is the strategy of teams that like winning right? Give away top players for average prospects?
I prefer your plan - Hold onto Luongo, play him at 3rd line centre and then blame him when we lose in the 1st round because he doesn't score enough.

Brilliant.

Who the **** is Ben Archibald?

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09-30-2012, 11:23 PM
  #118
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I think he means Darren Archibald.

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09-30-2012, 11:24 PM
  #119
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If thats the case then maybe we should get Huberdeau.
That wouldn't hurt Florida's center depth either. Win-win-win.

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09-30-2012, 11:27 PM
  #120
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That wouldn't hurt Florida's center depth either. Win-win-win.
Then Tallon would just trade Huberdeau to the Sharks for Patrick Marleau. If he's going to deal a blue-chip prospect for a 33 year old roster player he might as well fill their biggest organizational need in the process.

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09-30-2012, 11:29 PM
  #121
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Bjugstad

Bjugstad

I really want Bjugstad

He is the most important piece in the trade

Bjugstad is the perfect player for this team

Bjugstad Bjugstad Bjugstad

It should be noted that I have NEVER seen him play, not really sure his style, have only seen his size and weight on paper, couldn't pick him out of a lineup of one and for some reason am sure he is the best return for this team

Damn you HFboards, this guy is going to become a player whos career I will always be interested in, even if he only comes here to play against

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09-30-2012, 11:29 PM
  #122
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Then Tallon would just trade Huberdeau to the Sharks for Patrick Marleau. If he's going to deal a blue-chip prospect for a 33 year old roster player he might as well fill their biggest organizational need in the process.
As I said before, I don't disagree with you. I'd prefer to trade Luo to TO, just because there is that element of desperation there as well as an actual need for goaltending.

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09-30-2012, 11:36 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Huberdeau has the potential to be an elite player - I don't know if any of these prospects have that same upside. Not to mention, none of these players were offered for a guy in Luongo's age range - they all went for 1st line centre calibre forwards under the age of 27. If Luongo was 26-27 I would expect a much more significant return - or if he didn't have a NTC, something Staal, Mike Richards and Jeff Carter did not have.

Who is the best prospect dealt in the cap era for a player in Luongo's age range? That will give us a better picture...
You said good prospects don't get traded often - I said 3 did in a year that, in general, saw very few trades.

Not sure about your question, don't have that info. But I would say this is a unique situation. How often are above avg (perhaps top 10) goaltenders avalible in the cap era? It's rare. Yes he's over 30, yes he has a long contract. Richards, Carter and Nash also had long contracts and in general goalies have longer shelf lives than forwards. Those are considerations for the buyer. But what is the buyers alternative? There's no one else on the market, they can either buy or go with what they have. If they're calling about Luongo, they're obviously not comfortable going with what they got.

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09-30-2012, 11:37 PM
  #124
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As I said before, I don't disagree with you. I'd prefer to trade Luo to TO, just because there is that element of desperation there as well as an actual need for goaltending.
Yeah, I think Toronto has more roster pieces the Canucks could use. They have a lot of depth up front and on defense as well. Unfortunately, I don't know if there's a bonafide top 6 forward they would be willing to part with. Nor do I believe Gardiner would be on the table.

Florida just doesn't have the talent up front to spare. Like you alluded to, not sure Tallon is desperate enough either.

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09-30-2012, 11:38 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Well let's follow your plan. Then let's turn around and offer Ben Archibald and Yan Sauve for Corey Perry. Afterall...that is the strategy of teams that like winning right? Give away top players for average prospects?
If you think Archibald and Suave are similar prospects to Petrovic/Howden/Bjugstad...


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