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#1 defenseman to Detroit

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Old
09-28-2012, 05:47 PM
  #76
TMI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Who's better defensively, Karlsson or Datsyuk? Serious question.
Datsyuk is better in all three zones. EK has age, but that's all (though age is obviously a huge factor for a team like the Sens). Actually, age is exactly why this doesn't make sense for Ottawa, and having to give up two great young players to offset Datsyuk's age is what makes no sense for Detroit. So Karlsson's biggest advantage scuttles that proposal.

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09-28-2012, 05:47 PM
  #77
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Hahaha wait! EK is the closest player to Lidstrom in the world? Yeah... I don't buy that for a second. One huge difference off of the bat; Lidstrom killed penalties. You can give me the whole "Karlsson is best utilized on the PP" argument, and fair enough, but if he were anything close to Lidstrom it wouldn't matter. He'd be on the PK because he is best utilized ANYWHERE.

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09-28-2012, 05:48 PM
  #78
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No we will not trade our next captain, Datsyuk, our best young d man + for any one in the league sorry. and what does any of this have to do with FA wanting to come to the wings? I am so sick of reading people post how they are sooo happy that players went to other teams! get over it we did we will still be a good team sorry.

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Old
09-28-2012, 05:49 PM
  #79
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this thread is full of fail.

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Old
09-28-2012, 05:49 PM
  #80
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I think I took care of the whole "lulz Detroit didn't get any FAs" crap.

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Old
09-28-2012, 05:52 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
You can make arguments for how good the value is, but Detroit still is not going to add their two best prospects to their best player plus a 1st round pick in order to get Karlsson. I don't even think Karlsson is the kind of defenseman that Detroit needs. There is absolutely no reason for them to go after Karlsson.

And actually, Karlsson doesn't do exactly what Datsyuk does, but from the blueline. Karlsson has .68 PPG over his three seasons. Pretty damn good for a defenseman, but it isn't even close to Datsyuk's .98 PPG over 10 seasons. EK has had one elite season, one above average season, and one average season (all offensively), while Datsyuk has remained one of the best forwards in the world for a long period of time.

I don't see how you can say Karlsson >>>> Datsyuk "AINEC" unless you're simply going by age.
Really, you're judging Karlsson by his 19 year old season as a 165 lbs defenseman? Look at 2011-12. It takes a while for defensemen to hit their stride.

Right now, Karlsson >> Datsyuk ainec, based on current ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Who's better defensively, Karlsson or Datsyuk? Serious question.
Karlsson. But mainly because he has more responsibility.

But Datsyuk relative to forwards and Karlsson relative to defensemen, then it's Datsyuk. Karlsson has a lot of room for improvement though and is already good.

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09-28-2012, 05:55 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Hahaha wait! EK is the closest player to Lidstrom in the world? Yeah... I don't buy that for a second. One huge difference off of the bat; Lidstrom killed penalties. You can give me the whole "Karlsson is best utilized on the PP" argument, and fair enough, but if he were anything close to Lidstrom it wouldn't matter. He'd be on the PK because he is best utilized ANYWHERE.
Lidstrom was 4th in PK time among Detroit defensemen, not exactly their go to player...

Karlsson can kill penalties extremely well, the coaches choose to use him in other situations.

For example,
Karlsson >>> Chris Phillips 5-on-5.
Karlsson > Chris Phillips on the PK.

Where do you think they'll maximize Karlsson's minutes? The difference with other D-men is smaller on the PK.

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Old
09-28-2012, 06:06 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Really, you're judging Karlsson by his 19 year old season as a 165 lbs defenseman? Look at 2011-12. It takes a while for defensemen to hit their stride.

Right now, Karlsson >> Datsyuk ainec, based on current ability.



Karlsson. But mainly because he has more responsibility.

But Datsyuk relative to forwards and Karlsson relative to defensemen, then it's Datsyuk. Karlsson has a lot of room for improvement though and is already good.
you can keep him, we will keep Dats thanks.


Last edited by TMI: 09-28-2012 at 06:09 PM. Reason: no
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Old
09-28-2012, 06:08 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Lidstrom was 4th in PK time among Detroit defensemen, not exactly their go to player...

Karlsson can kill penalties extremely well, the coaches choose to use him in other situations.


For example,
Karlsson >>> Chris Phillips 5-on-5.
Karlsson > Chris Phillips on the PK.

Where do you think they'll maximize Karlsson's minutes? The difference with other D-men is smaller on the PK.
You do realize how much of a hypocrite you sound like saying this, right?

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Old
09-28-2012, 06:08 PM
  #85
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I addressed that argument, and you are using data from a 41 year old's final season. If we're being honest about SHTOI with regards to Lidstrom and how he compares to the rest of his team, going back to before the last lock out you'll notice he was the team leader for nearly every year before 2009-2010 (and if you continue beyond the lock out that remains constant).

And as I said, I addressed the argument that Karlsson was merely being utilized where he was best serving the team. That's perfectly reasonable to say to people who bring up nothing but PK, but you are comparing him to one of the greatest of all time. If he were actually the closest defenseman to Lidstrom right now he would best serve the team being on the ice, regardless of the situation. Face it. Karlsson is the best offensive defenseman in the league at this moment (assuming he remains consistent), but he is not the next Lidstrom.

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Old
09-28-2012, 06:09 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalie guy View Post
you can keep him, we will keep Dats thanks.
A little arrogant aren't we? Claiming your forward is better defensively than the Norris trophy winner?


Last edited by TMI: 09-28-2012 at 06:12 PM. Reason: quote
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Old
09-28-2012, 06:13 PM
  #87
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BTW, Karlsson's PK time isn't much different from other defensemen if those other defensemen are Francis Bouillon, Jack Hillen, Andreas Lilja, and Mike Green, but then I guess no one is really trying to say any of those four are the closest thing to Lidstrom in the world. EK ranked 167th in the league in total PK time. Again, that isn't a good enough argument to say he isn't good defensively, but it's good enough to disprove your Lidstrom comparison.

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Old
09-28-2012, 06:13 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
You do realize how much of a hypocrite you sound like saying this, right?
?

Not saying Lidstrom is horrible at all. In fact he was Detroit best PKer, but was only 4th in ice time. Similar to Karlsson, he was used less on the PK. Lidstrom-Karlsson comparison, get with the program

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
I addressed that argument, and you are using data from a 41 year old's final season. If we're being honest about SHTOI with regards to Lidstrom and how he compares to the rest of his team, going back to before the last lock out you'll notice he was the team leader for nearly every year before 2009-2010.

And as I said, I addressed the argument that Karlsson was merely being utilized where he was best serving the team. If he were actually the closest defenseman to Lidstrom right now he would best serve the team being on the ice, regardless of the situation. Face it. Karlsson is the best offensive defenseman in the league at this moment (assuming he remains consistent), but he is not the next Lidstrom.
Fair enough about Lidstrom leading in PK ice time before.

I'm not saying he's the next Lidstrom. I'm saying he's the closest thing to him in terms of two-way play. Karlsson is better offensively and Lidstrom is better defensively.

You can't forget that Karlsson has a lot of room for improvement still. All the skills and brains necessary are there.

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Old
09-28-2012, 06:15 PM
  #89
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Let's ask Detroit fans who they feel is the closest thing to Lidstrom right now. I'm going to guess a lot of Ryan Suter is going to come up, but not a lot of Karlsson. Karlsson is a great player, but he isn't what Detroit needs IMO. I could be wrong.

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09-28-2012, 06:20 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
BTW, Karlsson's PK time isn't much different from other defensemen if those other defensemen are Francis Bouillon, Jack Hillen, Andreas Lilja, and Mike Green, but then I guess no one is really trying to say any of those four are the closest thing to Lidstrom in the world. EK ranked 167th in the league in total PK time. Again, that isn't a good enough argument to say he isn't good defensively, but it's good enough to disprove your Lidstrom comparison.
Karlsson was a regular PKer for the last 30 games in 2010-11. The Sens operated at around 95% efficiency during that time. Karlsson was on for 1.70 PP goals against per 60 min of PK of ice time... top 5 in the league.

That season, Lidstrom was on for 7.17 PP goals against per 60 min of PK ice time. Huge difference.

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09-28-2012, 06:22 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Let's ask Detroit fans who they feel is the closest thing to Lidstrom right now. I'm going to guess a lot of Ryan Suter is going to come up, but not a lot of Karlsson. Karlsson is a great player, but he isn't what Detroit needs IMO. I could be wrong.
Alex Pietrangelo
Suter
OEL


In that orded, imo.

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09-28-2012, 06:23 PM
  #92
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A little arrogant aren't we? Claiming your forward is better defensively than the Norris trophy winner?
A Norris winner who won, primarily, because of his offensive numbers. You're talking a lot of nonsense in this thread, and comparing Karlsson to Lidstrom just shows how much.

Now, get back on topic. This thread is not about Karlsson vs. Datsyuk.

On topic - If you want a #1 defenseman, you're not going to be able to say someone like B. Smith is off limits, I'm sorry. You have to give to get, and quantity isn't going to do it.

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09-28-2012, 06:31 PM
  #93
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If Edler becomes UFA it's for money reasons or because he doesn't see that Canucks window of opportunity is long enough to take a longer or retirement contract to lock himself up there. Yes, CBA may limit contract lengths and I personally think that Canucks have at least 2-3 years after this one, assuming no major roster changes. imo.

In either case, he wouldn't be coming to Detroit, I think. Personally, I believe Detroit's future isn't that bad but something makes me wonder that Edler isn't buying on my beliefs.

Why would he come to Detroit if he can play in Vancouver for the same money?

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09-28-2012, 06:33 PM
  #94
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OK the EK/Lidstrom thing has been talked about enough now. Sojourn just provided a warning, and since I was involved in the conversation I'm going to reinforce that warning. Get this back on track. Detroit fans aren't going to do the proposal for Karlsson, so there's no need in continuing to try to prove why they should.

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09-28-2012, 06:38 PM
  #95
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If Edler becomes UFA it's for money reasons or because he doesn't see that Canucks window of opportunity is long enough to take a longer or retirement contract to lock himself up there. Yes, CBA may limit contract lengths and I personally think that Canucks have at least 2-3 years after this one, assuming no major roster changes. imo.

In either case, he wouldn't be coming to Detroit, I think. Personally, I believe Detroit's future isn't that bad but something makes me wonder that Edler isn't buying on my beliefs.

Why would he come to Detroit if he can play in Vancouver for the same money?
Well, I've heard from non-credible sources(people on the Canucks section who have a friend who knows him kind of thing) that he wants to re-sign with the Canucks, I think they just want to see where the new CBA falls out(like if UFA age is extended). Also, Edler may not want his playoff performance to be the last thing he's judged on before signing his next contract.

If he did leave for the money, Detroit has the cap space to give him 6 mil+, most Canucks fans hope he re-signs for about 5-5.5 mil(Kesler-ish contract)

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09-28-2012, 07:28 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Edler + Connauton for Flippula and Smith.

Edler and Flippula have the same contract status.
Big no from Detroit.

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09-28-2012, 10:28 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Lidstrom was 4th in PK time among Detroit defensemen, not exactly their go to player...

Karlsson can kill penalties extremely well, the coaches choose to use him in other situations.

For example,
Karlsson >>> Chris Phillips 5-on-5.
Karlsson > Chris Phillips on the PK.

Where do you think they'll maximize Karlsson's minutes? The difference with other D-men is smaller on the PK.
4th in PK as a 42 year old .... Howbout the other 20 years he played? (palm to forehead)

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09-28-2012, 11:03 PM
  #98
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Zetts Nyquist 1st for Spezza and Karlsson??

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09-28-2012, 11:12 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by shultzyfeelinirie20 View Post
Zetts Nyquist 1st for Spezza and Karlsson??
I think Spezza has more value than Zetts at this point, he's 3 years younger and is coming off a mega year. Nyquist and a late 1st don't get you Karlsson.

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09-28-2012, 11:16 PM
  #100
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I think the wings stick with what they have now after new cba and lock out is over they will reevaluate as what to do then.

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