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#1 defenseman to Detroit

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Old
10-06-2012, 12:07 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
The only problem comes in when he signs players (like Todd Bertuzzi) and it "forces" him to let go of much better and younger players (like Jiri Hudler) as well as taking up a roster spot that could be used for developing prospects (like Gustav Nyquist, Damien Brunner, or Tomas Tatar).
Hudler sucks, and for 4 million i'm glad they didn't resign the most one dimensional player in the league.

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10-06-2012, 01:47 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Yet Pietrangelo finished 4th in voting..
Interesting feat, one that I don't agree with. Thanks to Hitchcock's sytem and a hot goalie, Pietrangelo gets lots of unwarranted hype.

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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Dman Prospect's that are better than him in HF rankings PRE-DRAFT ( http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect-rankings/ ) : Hamilton, Rundblad. There will be about 3 more when they update with 2012 draftees.. and Smith didn't even make top 15
HF rankings are a joke. Funny you even posted such hog wash to try to use as "fact". Have you even bothered to see Smith play? I'm guessing no based on your post.

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10-06-2012, 01:58 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Interesting feat, one that I don't agree with. Thanks to Hitchcock's sytem and a hot goalie, Pietrangelo gets lots of unwarranted hype.
How did Hitchcock's system or the goaltending help him put up 50 points as a rookie, on the 21st ranked offensive team in the league?

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10-06-2012, 02:02 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Interesting feat, one that I don't agree with. Thanks to Hitchcock's sytem and a hot goalie, Pietrangelo gets lots of unwarranted hype.



HF rankings are a joke. Funny you even posted such hog wash to try to use as "fact". Have you even bothered to see Smith play? I'm guessing no based on your post.
You and every other DET fan would be tickled ****less if Smith became a D-Man as good as Pietrangelo.

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10-06-2012, 02:09 PM
  #205
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So...for the Detroit fans saying Yandle, Pietrangelo, etc aren't good enough #1 dmen to consider, who would be a worthy target, dare I ask?

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10-06-2012, 02:36 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
How did Hitchcock's system or the goaltending help him put up 50 points as a rookie, on the 21st ranked offensive team in the league?
Mhmm, Dustin Byfuglien scored more points in 15 less games. He should be all-star champion of the world considering Pietrangelo scored like 4 less points in many more games played and was 4th on voting.

Fact is there were many dmen more qualified to be "4th" in voting. Pietrangelo was bloated because of Hitchcock's tight defensive system and a hot goalie. Pietrangelo wouldn't be my top 10 choice to put on my team if I could pick any 10 defenseman in the league....

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10-06-2012, 02:40 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Interesting feat, one that I don't agree with. Thanks to Hitchcock's sytem and a hot goalie, Pietrangelo gets lots of unwarranted hype.



HF rankings are a joke. Funny you even posted such hog wash to try to use as "fact". Have you even bothered to see Smith play? I'm guessing no based on your post.
I'd be curious to see if you would considering those rankings a joke if they agreed with you. Wouldn't it be awkward if they ranked him #1 among defense prospects the next time they do one of those?

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10-06-2012, 02:40 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So...for the Detroit fans saying Yandle, Pietrangelo, etc aren't good enough #1 dmen to consider, who would be a worthy target, dare I ask?
I believe the general consensus in this thread and on DRWs board is they don't need a #1 with the defensive depth they have. Trading away roster players and prospects leaves holes in the line-up and mortgages the future.

Smith is ready to show his stuff sooner than later. He should have been a regular top 4 on Detroit's roster not last year, but the year before that. He's going to "wow" a lot of people. Just wait.

DRWs as it stands is a playoff team. And when you make the playoffs, anything can happen. Ask LA Kings and the Boston Bruins.

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10-06-2012, 02:41 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Mhmm, Dustin Byfuglien scored more points in 15 less games. He should be all-star champion of the world considering Pietrangelo scored like 4 less points in many more games played and was 4th on voting.

Fact is there were many dmen more qualified to be "4th" in voting. Pietrangelo was bloated because of Hitchcock's tight defensive system and a hot goalie. Pietrangelo wouldn't be my top 10 choice to put on my team if I could pick any 10 defenseman in the league....
Who would your top ten defensemen be, and, of those, who would you target in a hypothetical trade, if any. We'll assume that Smith is involved in this trade.

edit: nevermind. Question was answered above.

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10-06-2012, 02:52 PM
  #210
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I'd be curious to see if you would considering those rankings a joke if they agreed with you. Wouldn't it be awkward if they ranked him #1 among defense prospects the next time they do one of those?
What they determine (or change) their ranking to has no barring on my opinion. I never took HF rankings seriously, I always viewed it as general (unqualified) contributors basing their opinions on certain players they never even watched play, or watched play a few times, or just watched a few highlights on YT. And then sweep message forums opinions and find a few out of context quotes online from scouts that nobody can even prove they [the scouts] even said about that particular player.

I guess some people believe if it is on the internet, then it must be true. Personally, I don't believe everything on the internet is true. For me to take heath in any 'opinions', it must be from a qualified source; someone respected in the NHL and pro-hockey community. Not some random poster on a random internet forum with self-proclaimed credentials.

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10-06-2012, 02:55 PM
  #211
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I can assure that is not at all how the guys who write for Hockey's Future do it, but if that's what you choose to believe then feel free.

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10-06-2012, 02:58 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
I can assure that is not at all how the guys who write for Hockey's Future do it, but if that's what you choose to believe then feel free.
It's either that or chinese fortune cookies.

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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Who would your top ten defensemen be, and, of those, who would you target in a hypothetical trade, if any. We'll assume that Smith is involved in this trade.

edit: nevermind. Question was answered above.
I would give my left nut for Shea Weber. I think he's the best Defenseman in the NHL. Another defenseman that would come cheap(er) and I think would really fit Detroit's system, as they have enough (scoring) PMD but not enough shut down go-to guys would be Jay Bouwmeester.

That said, I think Detroit should keep what they have and explore trade deadline if they feel they need to beef up the back end.

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10-06-2012, 02:58 PM
  #213
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You and every other DET fan would be tickled ****less if Smith became a D-Man as good as Pietrangelo.
Detroit fan quoting this for truth.

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10-06-2012, 03:00 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
It's either that or chinese fortune cookies.
Or they put a lot of effort into analyzing these players, and then forming lists displaying how they rank in their informed opinions. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean they aren't actually putting forth effort. That's a very narrow way to view the world.

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10-06-2012, 03:09 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Or they put a lot of effort into analyzing these players, and then forming lists displaying how they rank in their informed opinions. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean they aren't actually putting forth effort. That's a very narrow way to view the world.
I've read posts on HF from hockeywriters who admitted the didn't get to see "x" player play, or just watched him a few times in a game.

These guys don't have all the resources at their disposal to put together quality rankings. I'm sure they try. Heck, I know of a sure-fire way I think I can save the American economy and turn our job market around within a year... problem is I don't have the resources at my disposal to make it happen. That doesn't mean I don't have good intentions.

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10-06-2012, 03:11 PM
  #216
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I don't know about they're actual ordered rankings, but I certainly take their number-letter rankings with a grain of salt.

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10-06-2012, 03:13 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Pietrangelo was bloated because of Hitchcock's tight defensive system and a hot goalie.
Pietrangelo carried Colaiacovo/Huskins the entire year. He was paired with subpar linemates all year and still was one of the best defenseman in the league. The Blues were one of the best defensive teams last season and Pietrangelo was one of the, if not the, most important parts of that equation. The team benefits far more from Pietrangelo than Pietrangelo does from the team. If you need further proof of that point, evaluate the Blues team defense after he was injured in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Pietrangelo wouldn't be my top 10 choice to put on my team if I could pick any 10 defenseman in the league....
I'd be interested to see this list of your top ten defensemen who do not benefit from their goaltenders and the rest of their teammates playing good team defense.

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Fact is there were many dmen more qualified to be "4th" in voting.
This is not a fact. It is your opinion.

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10-06-2012, 03:18 PM
  #218
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I'm not going to try to change your mind. All I'm saying is when you say things like they only look at stats, highlights, and message board posts OR it's Chinese fortune cookies (a joke, I know) you pretty much dismiss any chance of them having good intentions, don't you? You just make them seem like a bunch of lazy people who don't put forth any effort at all.

Anyway, this off topic now. My bad.

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10-06-2012, 03:50 PM
  #219
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Pietrangelo carried Colaiacovo/Huskins the entire year. He was paired with subpar linemates all year and still was one of the best defenseman in the league. The Blues were one of the best defensive teams last season and Pietrangelo was one of the, if not the, most important parts of that equation. The team benefits far more from Pietrangelo than Pietrangelo does from the team. If you need further proof of that point, evaluate the Blues team defense after he was injured in the playoffs.
Lets see how well he does without a hot goaltender and after Hitchcock wears out his welcome. Hitchcock is known to get his team to over-achieve until he loses his team - which usually happens after a few years. I suspect next season many will see the Blues over-achieved as a whole. Another reason why Pietrangelo gets so overrated.


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Originally Posted by underslept View Post
I'd be interested to see this list of your top ten defensemen who do not benefit from their goaltenders and the rest of their teammates playing good team defense.

weber
chara
keith
Doughty
suter
letang
Girardi
Seidenberg

If I am going for all out points, my choice goes to the top scorers in the league...

Karlsson
Green
Byfuglien

And another up and coming stud is Staal. Because of his size I would take him over Pietrangelo. It's not all about points. I think Pietrangelo is a great scoring dman (ala Ehrhoff), but he leaves more to be desired in other areas of his game. He is not aggressive and doesn't use his size.

Honorable Mention goes to Edler.

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10-06-2012, 03:53 PM
  #220
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Canucks fan here saying he would trade Edler and 2 1sts for Pietrangelo, even if he were signed long term.

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10-06-2012, 04:06 PM
  #221
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I'm having trouble figuring out how you don't see that Pietrangelo is a stud and one of the top D in the league. He's already a #1 and will probably only get better as he gets older.

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10-06-2012, 04:26 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Mhmm, Dustin Byfuglien scored more points in 15 less games. He should be all-star champion of the world considering Pietrangelo scored like 4 less points in many more games played and was 4th on voting.
Byfuglien also played for a better offensive team and didn't get the tough assignments that Peitrangelo did. If you're going to give Hitch's system all the credit for his defensive numbers, you have to admit his 50+ points is pretty impressive in a system like that.

Peitrangelo was also a really good corsi player, if your into that kind of thing.

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10-06-2012, 04:31 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
weber
chara
keith
Doughty
suter
letang
Girardi
Seidenberg

If I am going for all out points, my choice goes to the top scorers in the league...

Karlsson
Green
Byfuglien

And another up and coming stud is Staal. Because of his size I would take him over Pietrangelo. It's not all about points. I think Pietrangelo is a great scoring dman (ala Ehrhoff), but he leaves more to be desired in other areas of his game. He is not aggressive and doesn't use his size.

Honorable Mention goes to Edler.
The bolded part describes Karlsson to a tee, not Pietrangelo.

Weber, Chara, Keith, Doughty, and Suter are certainly players that are better or as good as Pietrangelo. Letang is certainly a great defenseman, but I'd rather have Pietrangelo in the long run. The rest of your list consists of fairly one dimensional players that are not better and likely won't ever be better than Pietrangelo. The only exception would be Karlsson, but he's going to have to become much more reliable in his own zone before I'll concede that. Many of those on your list, could be packaged in a trade for Pietrangelo.

You're trying very had to downplay Pietrangelo and stating you'd rather have one dimensional offensive defenseman over him, it's pretty clear you don't have much exposure to him or you've got an agenda you're working on.

Pietrangelo is close to and will be come a franchise defenseman (something at least half of your top ten will not achieve).

Also noting you aren't handicapping any of your top ten for the systems they play in or the help they get from their team, yet you're using it to cherry pick an argument the best you can against Pietrangelo. If you are jealous or don't like it, that's quite alright, but don't downplay his talents and abilities because of it.

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10-06-2012, 04:36 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Mhmm, Dustin Byfuglien scored more points in 15 less games. He should be all-star champion of the world considering Pietrangelo scored like 4 less points in many more games played and was 4th on voting.

Fact is there were many dmen more qualified to be "4th" in voting. Pietrangelo was bloated because of Hitchcock's tight defensive system and a hot goalie. Pietrangelo wouldn't be my top 10 choice to put on my team if I could pick any 10 defenseman in the league....
Since when did the Noris become about being the best OFD? And hot goalie? Hitch's system is famous for making below average goalies look better than Patrick Roy.

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10-06-2012, 04:42 PM
  #225
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Since when did the Noris become about being the best OFD?
Erik Karlsson says hello.

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