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The John Davidson saga -- That's Incredible!

View Poll Results: Should we hire John Davidson?
Sure, what the hell. 69 92.00%
No, and I'll explain my "no" in a long-winded post. 0 0%
It's too soon in the season to be making any moves. 1 1.33%
I'm an idiot. 5 6.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-25-2012, 07:31 AM
  #301
BluejacketNut
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If he's smart, he'll also push to get rid of the strangling PSL fee

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Old
10-25-2012, 08:12 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fire View Post
Come on blahblah, can't I have a little fun on this board?
You did. I did as well.

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I wouldn't mind seeing Rims moved to color analyst, and a new play-by-play guy brought in. But, I like the guy, so can't wish anything bad on him.
The problem with that is that he would offer nothing useful as a color analyst. There is a reason why he is play-by-play. Sure you are free to like the guy, most people do. However, I am ready for a change in the booth. I can't help that their relationship causes me a great deal of pain and dread. If I have to hear one more time "And the Jackets change on the fly...." Ugh.

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10-25-2012, 08:16 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
If he's smart, he'll also push to get rid of the strangling PSL fee
Yes. I know the last time I got season tickets and didn't pay for PSL's I felt like I was being strangled...

Sure getting rid of PSL's would be great, but if you are a person wanting to get season tickets now and are actually going to be silly enough to pay for a PSL you are getting what you deserve.

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10-25-2012, 08:24 AM
  #304
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Didn't get to comment on this yesterday when it became official. This is a good move. This is the kind of move that makes a very jaded fan like me pull the CBJ jersey from the back of the closet and move it forward a bit. Maybe this organization doesn't become a regular playoff team under Davidson while he's still here, but its about putting pieces in place in the front office, the ice and elsewhere in the organization to make successful seasons a norm instead of the exception in the future.

As I sit back, I truly am amazed by the lengths ownership has gone to here... lets hope its not in vain.

And kudos to Howson, if true, for finally having the fortitude to push something for the good of the franchise in the long term to his bosses.


Last edited by KeithBWhittington: 10-25-2012 at 08:30 AM.
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10-25-2012, 11:03 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
Shouldn't take a year. The 12 years of failure should say something.
In other words, you're throwing your support behind Davidson...but if he decides to do an actual top-to-bottom analysis, then he's wrong.

Outside of this Stalinist mentality that people are inherently stained for life by mere association with an "undesirable" element, what would you be doing in this situation?

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10-25-2012, 12:19 PM
  #306
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Wow. Has this been confirmed previously? I wonder how that conversation was started.
The fact that this is actually a shock to people just depresses me. OF COURSE Howson and Priest are going to want more additional competent people to bounce ideas off of. They're well aware of the current situation and it's in their best interest to get better results while they're here.

Howson also recommended the Patrick hire; we know he likes having guys to talk to. Priest has given indications in the past that he knows hockey isn't exactly his top subject. Why would either object?

We're not dealing with control-freak Snidely Whiplash types here, folks. We're dealing with people with honest intentions and a legitimate desire to win. Don't confuse current inability with lack of will or want.


Seriously, y'all. One of our most frequent problems has been not having enough in the front office. Do you really think Howson and Priest are going to be fired immediately? Do you really think that helps? Of course not. Don't be absurd.

If you'll pardon the metaphor, we had a pair of solid but not great second-liners trying to play on the top line in the front office. We now have two top-line guys, which means the second-liners can now do that much better.

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Last edited by Viqsi: 10-25-2012 at 12:23 PM. Reason: when I say "more competent", I mean "additional", not "greater" :)
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10-25-2012, 12:21 PM
  #307
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So, of the three-headed monster in charge of the hockey operations (Howson, Patrick, and Davidson), who's the first to leave or can they all manage to co-exist peacefully?

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10-25-2012, 12:29 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Outside of this Stalinist mentality that people are inherently stained for life by mere association with an "undesirable" element, what would you be doing in this situation?
Judging by your characterization of the attitude, it sounds like the first steps would be airbrushing Scott Arniel out of all press photos, exhuming Mr. Mac (z''l) and putting him on display under glass in front of the Nat's Blueline, and maybe going after Doug MacLean with an icepick-wielding assassin.

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10-25-2012, 01:04 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
So, of the three-headed monster in charge of the hockey operations (Howson, Patrick, and Davidson), who's the first to leave or can they all manage to co-exist peacefully?
As of 2 p.m. yesterday, there is just a one-headed monster - JD.

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10-25-2012, 01:10 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by cbjfaninmo View Post
As of 2 p.m. yesterday, there is just a one-headed monster - JD.
If you really think JD is going to be micro-managing the day to day operations of this team, you're going to be extremely disappointed.

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10-25-2012, 01:17 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Judging by your characterization of the attitude, it sounds like the first steps would be airbrushing Scott Arniel out of all press photos, exhuming Mr. Mac (z''l) and putting him on display under glass in front of the Nat's Blueline, and maybe going after Doug MacLean with an icepick-wielding assassin.
We could put always put Mr. Mac under the ice somewhere. Maybe in the visiting goalie's crease staring straight up at him...

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10-25-2012, 01:23 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Howson also recommended the Patrick hire; we know he likes having guys to talk to.
So those Howson and above would like us to believe.

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10-25-2012, 01:32 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
In other words, you're throwing your support behind Davidson...but if he decides to do an actual top-to-bottom analysis, then he's wrong.
If he chooses to do an analysis, that is up to him. Some guys bring in their own guys day one. Howson is going to have a difficult time justifying his retention on record, so this is really going to be a fascinating to see how Davidson approaches it. He may take the approach of micro-manager with Howson. Lord knows he can't give him a ton of rope day one. Howson has no history of success, if Davidson keeps him around it's probably a reclamation project based on first impression potential. Another option might be, "We don't have the money to pay for another GM since we spent so much on you, so suck it up until his contract is over.". Isn't that just until the end of the 12-13 season or did he somehow get another year somewhere?

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10-25-2012, 01:40 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
If he chooses to do an analysis, that is up to him. Some guys bring in their own guys day one. Howson is going to have a difficult time justifying his retention on record, so this is really going to be a fascinating to see how Davidson approaches it. He may take the approach of micro-manager with Howson. Lord knows he can't give him a ton of rope day one. Howson has no history of success, if Davidson keeps him around it's probably a reclamation project based on first impression potential. Another option might be, "We don't have the money to pay for another GM since we spent so much on you, so suck it up until his contract is over.". Isn't that just until the end of the 12-13 season or did he somehow get another year somewhere?
Limited success, but still...


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10-25-2012, 01:54 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Limited success, but still...
Frankly, I the only credit I've really given to Howson for that was bringing in Vermette (a no brainer) and JW (and I'm certain he had no idea it was going to work out with JM the way it did. He didn't bother to even try bringing him back. It was more luck than skill with that move.). Ultimately that team over performed. That was all on the players and Hitch, not to mention the bond they formed with the fans. Howson was along for the ride.

The reason I say that it is because obvious the next off season he had absolutely no idea why his team was winning and what he needed to do to build upon it. I warned everyone that off season. I told everyone when we started hot it wasn't going to last. Sure enough, we collapsed and never recovered. That is all on Howson. The last couple of months of this last season was the first time I really felt like we kind of turned a corner.

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10-25-2012, 02:01 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
So, of the three-headed monster in charge of the hockey operations (Howson, Patrick, and Davidson), who's the first to leave or can they all manage to co-exist peacefully?
Patrick. JD will oversea all trades these days.

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10-25-2012, 03:00 PM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
If you really think JD is going to be micro-managing the day to day operations of this team, you're going to be extremely disappointed.
I did not say he would micro-manage. I believe he will do the opposite and the people that are given marching orders will be held responsible and accountable. He did not micro-manage in St. Louis and I don't think he'll start in Columbus. It will be a new, interesting chapter in CBJ history.

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10-25-2012, 03:01 PM
  #318
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A lot of supposition and guesswork going on. Doubt very much that any of us has any idea what the dynamics of the front office iare going to be. JD's modus operandi in STL was to put a team in place and let them work. Disclaimer: I have no first hand knowledge of how he went about managing, supervising, suggesting or dictating. It is second hand knowledge from what I have read in the various write ups about him.

Whether or not he keeps GMSH in place and for how long I haven't a clue. But it would seem from the model in STL that there will continue to be a GM position. How much general direction or micro determination there is we will probably not be aware of.

Davidson does not appear to be the sort that will walk in swinging an axe, seems more like the gather information, formulate a plan, implement the plan type. It is entirely possible than Scott Howson is a part of those plans, he may feel very comfortable working with him. It could be a short leash, it might be a detailed to do list, it could be a road map of the direction he wants to go. Time will tell. Brick by brick.

Today is day one.

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10-25-2012, 03:21 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Frankly, I the only credit I've really given to Howson for that was bringing in Vermette (a no brainer) and JW (and I'm certain he had no idea it was going to work out with JM the way it did. He didn't bother to even try bringing him back. It was more luck than skill with that move.). Ultimately that team over performed. That was all on the players and Hitch, not to mention the bond they formed with the fans. Howson was along for the ride.

The reason I say that it is because obvious the next off season he had absolutely no idea why his team was winning and what he needed to do to build upon it. I warned everyone that off season. I told everyone when we started hot it wasn't going to last. Sure enough, we collapsed and never recovered. That is all on Howson. The last couple of months of this last season was the first time I really felt like we kind of turned a corner.
Roster players when Howson took over who were there for the playoffs:
Rick Nash
Fredrik Modin
Jason Chimera
Manny Malhotra
Rostislav Klesla
Marc Methot
Derick Brassard

Roster players when Howson took over who were traded or otherwise moved:
David Vyborny
Sergei Fedorov
Ron Hainsey
Nikolai Zherdev
Dan Fritsche
Anders Eriksson
Gilbert Brule
Alexander Svitov
Adam Foote
Duvie Westcott
Aaron Johnson
Bryan Berard
Derrick Walser
Jody Shelley
Jaroslav Balastik
Pascal Leclaire
Fredrik Norrena

Players Howson acquired who were part of the playoff team:
Jason Williams
Antoine Vermette
Kristian Huselius
RJ Umberger
Jan Hejda
Fedor Tyutin
Mike Commodore
Mike Peca
Raffi Torres

There were also a handful of various inherited players (Boll, Dorsett, Mason) who were in the system, but not in the NHL. Regardless, it's impossible to look at this type of monumental roster overhaul and simply say, "It was the players and coach; the GM gets no credit for actually putting this roster together."

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10-25-2012, 05:54 PM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Regardless, it's impossible to look at this type of monumental roster overhaul and simply say, "It was the players and coach; the GM gets no credit for actually putting this roster together."
I think what he's suggesting, though, is that while Howson did indeed bring in those players, he didn't quite follow how they'd managed to work together, and that's why it was doomed.

That just continues to suggest to me, tho, that having more hockey experience in the front office is a good thing, and that firing Howson is not necessarily a prerequisite to making the Blue Jackets a better organization and a better team.

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10-25-2012, 08:13 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Players Howson acquired who were part of the playoff team:
Jason Williams
Antoine Vermette
Kristian Huselius
RJ Umberger
Jan Hejda
Fedor Tyutin
Mike Commodore
Mike Peca
Raffi Torres
Oh good. Exactly two players left from that list. Great acquisitions.

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10-25-2012, 08:27 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I think what he's suggesting, though, is that while Howson did indeed bring in those players, he didn't quite follow how they'd managed to work together, and that's why it was doomed.
In a way, yes. More like he didn't understand how the pieces came together to form success.

He didn't recognize the issues on defense, of which years later he has completely overhauled it outside of Tyutin. He didn't understand the leadership dynamic and ultimately weakened it. He didn't understand how foolish it was to rely on Brassard for a top six role. He didn't understand the impact that Manny leaving would have with the top line, mainly because he didn't have an adequate replacement. He didn't understand the importance of the secondary scoring he didn't replace. He didn't have depth in key roles for injuries.

He handed Hitch a much weaker team and everyone seemed surprised they tanked when the margin of error was so small the previous year. We were exposed. People got way too many minutes in roles they really weren't close to optimal for.

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That just continues to suggest to me, tho, that having more hockey experience in the front office is a good thing, and that firing Howson is not necessarily a prerequisite to making the Blue Jackets a better organization and a better team.
So are we shooting for quantity of quality? The point I've made and no one can really debate it so they don't. There is no metric you can use to justify Howson's continued employment. Howson can't run on his record.

If Howson remains it's by the charity of others. Howson may be a very smart guy and ultimately he may turn out to be a good GM, even here. Having said that he has a lot to prove and he's put himself in a very vulnerable position.

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10-25-2012, 10:13 PM
  #323
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Let's just be happy for a day or two that Davidson is on board. Let's say until Sunday evening. Then on Monday people can go back to complaining.

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10-25-2012, 11:16 PM
  #324
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Oh good. Exactly two players left from that list. Great acquisitions.
A third (Williams) wanted to come back and was blown off.

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10-25-2012, 11:36 PM
  #325
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A third (Williams) wanted to come back and was blown off.
Not blown off, numbers game. He clearly wasn't good enough as he hasn't had a productive season since.

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