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Nazem Kadri reports to camp in 'Unacceptable' shape

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11-20-2012, 12:11 AM
  #526
Gavy
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
What? Two players' numbers are similar at one level. No useful conclusions can be drawn. Use the next level to compare them. It's not rocket science dudes.
The next level after the NHL being....? Their numbers in the NHL are comparable, that's what I'm talking about. It's not rocket science

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11-20-2012, 12:21 AM
  #527
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The next level after the NHL being....? Their numbers in the NHL are comparable, that's what I'm talking about. It's not rocket science
Okay, let's walk through this. Junior success is an indicator of NHL success, true or false?

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11-20-2012, 12:28 AM
  #528
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Okay, let's walk through this. Junior success is an indicator of NHL success, true or false?
Post draft year junior numbers are similar, and Kadri did it on a team with one other PPG player on London (Brayden had 5). Brayden's last year AHL PPG did blew out Kadri's AHL PPG, but he only played 7 games. Right now Brayden's got 2 more AHL points. Not saying Kadri's better, Brayden's also almost a full year younger and was great in the NHL playoffs.


Last edited by TheLeastOfTheBunch: 11-20-2012 at 12:36 AM.
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11-20-2012, 12:30 AM
  #529
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Okay, let's walk through this. Junior success is an indicator of NHL success, true or false?
You don't get what I'm saying. Even though Kadri and Schenn have been pretty much the same in the NHL, you are still saying Schenn is better because he has "blown Kadri out of the water" which he hasn't).
So by your logic, Kadri gets 60 pts next year, and Schenn gets say 40. Is Schenn still better because he had better junior stats?
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying your logic is flawed

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11-20-2012, 12:33 AM
  #530
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How convenient to forget about Schenn's 9 points in 11 playoff games as a rookie, and he was 10th on the Flyers in average ice time among forwards. Anyhow, they're two completely different players. Kadri is supposed to be a flashy top six forward if he pans out (akin to Kessel, but probably less dynamic). Schenn has always been compared to the player who he was traded for, Mike Richards. It is also worth noting that the Leafs also made an attempt to acquire Mike Richards but apparently didn't have or offer what the Flyers were seeking.

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11-20-2012, 12:35 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
How convenient to forget about Schenn's 9 points in 11 playoff games as a rookie, and he was 10th on the Flyers in average ice time among forwards. Anyhow, they're two completely different players. Kadri is supposed to be a flashy top six forward if he pans out (akin to Kessel, but probably less dynamic). Schenn has always been compared to the player who he was traded for, Mike Richards. It is also worth noting that the Leafs also made an attempt to acquire Mike Richards but apparently didn't have or offer what the Flyers were seeking.
Sadly we can't compare NHL playoff performances of Kadri and Schenn

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11-20-2012, 12:38 AM
  #532
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Sadly we can't compare NHL playoff performances of Kadri and Schenn
No, we can't, but you have to take it into consideration when comparing what they've accomplished in the NHL.

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11-20-2012, 07:05 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by SaintTavares View Post
Lets not name him MVP just cause he won one player of the week award in the AHL. He's nowhere near being a bust, but for when and where he was picked, he should probably be a little more advanced right now.
How isn't he? B.schenn, isn't very far ahead of him this season.

B. schenn: 14 gp: 8g 17p -6
N. Kadri: 14 gp: 12 a 14p +1

Kreider... Whose value skyrocketed in the playoffs (people convinced he was on a very short path to stardom), isnt doing any better either, With only 2 goals and 8 points In 13gp.

Scouts at the 2009 NHL draft said it was 6 player draft, then a drop. Leafs picked Kadri at 7, so Kadri's development isn't really stagnant, given his position. Personally I like that Toronto, for once, is taking time with a prospect.

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11-20-2012, 07:09 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Kadri = Schenn until proven else wise. It's too close to tell right now IMO. Of course people have different opinions though

But I wouldn't trade Kadri for Schenn straight up.
Offensively i would consider them equal, as prospects id take Schenn. He is better defensively and is almost a full year younger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
No, we can't, but you have to take it into consideration when comparing what they've accomplished in the NHL.
Problem is its well know that Kadri absolutely dominates when hes in the playoffs, so although expecting Schenn type production in the NHL post season may be a little far fetched, i would not be surprised at all to see it happen......if ever

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11-20-2012, 08:15 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
How isn't he? B.schenn, isn't very far ahead of him this season.

B. schenn: 14 gp: 8g 17p -6
N. Kadri: 14 gp: 12 a 14p +1

Kreider... Whose value skyrocketed in the playoffs (people convinced he was on a very short path to stardom), isnt doing any better either, With only 2 goals and 8 points In 13gp.

Scouts at the 2009 NHL draft said it was 6 player draft, then a drop. Leafs picked Kadri at 7, so Kadri's development isn't really stagnant, given his position. Personally I like that Toronto, for once, is taking time with a prospect.
dont show this to 7seven, im sure that -6 by bschenn is all his teammates while kadri's +1 is all his teammates.

if u want to nit pick yes b schenn has outscored him, but not by much.

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11-20-2012, 08:35 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
dont show this to 7seven, im sure that -6 by bschenn is all his teammates while kadri's +1 is all his teammates.

if u want to nit pick yes b schenn has outscored him, but not by much.
Top 5 scorers on the Adirondack Phantoms:

Brayden Schenn: 14gp - 8g - 9a - 17pts
Sean Couturier: 12gp - 3g - 8a - 11pts
Ben Holmstrom: 14gp - 2g - 5a - 7pts
Erik Gustafsson: 14gp - 2g - 4a - 6pts
Eric Wellwood: 13gp - 1g - 4a - 5pts

He has more goals than the #3 scorer on his team...

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11-20-2012, 09:25 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Top 5 scorers on the Adirondack Phantoms:


He has more goals than the #3 scorer on his team...
I was referring to their careers thus far, too. I'm not going to do the math, but I'm pretty sure that season wise, Kadri averages as much, if not close to the same amount of points/per game as schenn in the NHL. Considering you like comparing linemates, team scoring and all that fun stuff... I'd argue that it is more of an impressive feat for Kadri, then schenn given the success and abilities of their respective rosters. funny how people are so hard on Kadri, yet if you'd have watched his NHL games and ignored Wilson's reluctants to play Kadri, you'd have seen that he was actually a good NHL player (and John Mitchell actually was not). Don cherry saw it, and so did caryle, as caryle wanted to keep kadri up, but they couldn't due to the call up limit after the NHL deadline. Furthermore, Kadri was called out of shape, by Eakins, but Eakins coaching style is comparable to torts, just without the swearing. Hes straight up with his players, and expects a lot, especially conditioning (I'd argue that it's his biggests pet peeves). Believe it or not, Luke schenn was called out by the leafs last season, for questionable conditioning and Brayden schenn, himself doesn't look like no gym rat either. Some teams care, some teams don't, but i know that without a doubt the most successful players In the NHL aren't always Gym gurus, and the most fit guys, a lot of times arent the guys playing above the top two lines either.

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11-20-2012, 09:35 AM
  #538
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Brayden Schenn is better than Kadri in every area of hockey. You're really stretching it if you want to say they're equals.

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11-20-2012, 09:40 AM
  #539
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Boy, Kadri has sure been reporting to camp in unacceptable shape for a long time

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11-20-2012, 09:42 AM
  #540
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There should be a new book, ''From bust to hero''. How a Leafs prospect can go from underrated to overrated just by having a good game or two.

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11-20-2012, 09:51 AM
  #541
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Such different players. Schenn is a guy you're going to get the same from every night, theres no doubt hes more physical then Kadri on the ice. Schenn is more willing/able to go to the dirty areas and for that. However, Kadri is more creative, his hands are better and hes a premiere passer. Both are valuable pieces to a team.

Kadri = perimeter play maker

Schenn = rugged workhorse with some offensive upside

I'm a die hard leafs fan, and I'd rather Schenn on my team but to say that they are miles apart is an uninformed opinion.

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11-20-2012, 09:53 AM
  #542
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
There should be a new book, ''From bust to hero''. How a Leafs prospect can go from underrated to overrated just by having a good game or two.
How about one called "Fleeced". A decade of trades that the Montreal lost.

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11-20-2012, 09:58 AM
  #543
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How about one called "Fleeced". A decade of trades that the Montreal lost.

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11-20-2012, 10:00 AM
  #544
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Clearly.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409746

I guess 'the message' was "you're tired"??




Hey it's nice that he actually responded well but the bad part is that it was needed in the first place. I'm only calling it like I see it but obviously, Leaf fans, feel free to view this however you want to.
Get ready for the mass post of players that were once benched. I'll start with Jake Gardiner.

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11-20-2012, 10:11 AM
  #545
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How about one called "Fleeced". A decade of trades that the Montreal lost.
Assuming you're a Leafs fan you don't have much in terms of lesson to teach us. I'll leave it at that

For the record I wasn't even trolling (unlike you). I only think people (and Leafs fans in particular, altho my own fanbase is of course guilty of that very often) are always far too swift in judging prospects.

Just like having a slow start and the conditionning issues wasn't proof Kadri is a bust, him having a few good and very productive games isn't proof that he's suddenly a superstar.

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11-20-2012, 10:14 AM
  #546
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Quite unfortunate that this thread immediately turns into an "whos _______ is bigger". Good for Kadri, hopefully its sustained. Ill save my Schenn post for when he is AHL player of the week.

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11-20-2012, 10:19 AM
  #547
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Kadri is doing the best he can at the level he's playing at.

You have to applaud and give the kid credit.

Sure, he hasn't "proven" it at the NHL, but guess what, AHL player of the week is as good as it gets right now, so just stop hating on him for a second and give him the props he deserves.

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11-20-2012, 10:40 AM
  #548
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Assuming you're a Leafs fan you don't have much in terms of lesson to teach us. I'll leave it at that

For the record I wasn't even trolling (unlike you). I only think people (and Leafs fans in particular, altho my own fanbase is of course guilty of that very often) are always far too swift in judging prospects.

Just like having a slow start and the conditionning issues wasn't proof Kadri is a bust, him having a few good and very productive games isn't proof that he's suddenly a superstar.
"For the record I wasn't really trying to steal this item..." Just because some posters on HFBoards feel the need to voice their uninformed opinion on prospects, it doesn't mean they're the voice of the fan base. I've talked to ton of reasonable Leaf fans on HFBoards and outside of it who knew Kadri was just having bad puck luck.

He's just back on track people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Kadri is doing the best he can at the level he's playing at.

You have to applaud and give the kid credit.

Sure, he hasn't "proven" it at the NHL, but guess what, AHL player of the week is as good as it gets right now, so just stop hating on him for a second and give him the props he deserves.
Hasn't really gotten a fair shake, last year he should've been up but it was clear the Leafs were going into a nose dive. When Kadri did get recalled for emergency we won two games straight iirc, so for the good of the tank he was sent down

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11-20-2012, 11:08 AM
  #549
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
There should be a new book, ''From bust to hero''. How a Leafs prospect can go from underrated to overrated just by having a good game or two.
Any reasonable person would understand that neither is possible, nor true.

Kadri received warranted criticism based upon underperforming expectations. It was a small data set, but not a good trend, if you can call it that. At the end of the day, looking good on the ice, doing the little things right etc., don't really matter in the results orientated sport.

Now, Kadri has had a good stretch, and is back on the expected pace. Should he continue at a PPG for the balance of the season, with good and bad stretches, I think most will be satisfied with his work in the AHL.

Should Kadri continue his pace that he has been on for the last five or six games, and goes some 2 ppg for the balance of the season, then maybe prudent people will start to get a bit excited.

Ultimately though, it is nice that he is back to doing well, but until we see a transition to the NHL, he still won't have made it. For now, he is doing what we expect, not beating expectations, just meeting them.

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11-20-2012, 11:44 AM
  #550
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Kadri just recently got his points in bunches. I'd rather see some consistency (points stretched over more games) than some player of the week award.

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