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Will the Owners and the PA ever TRUST each other...

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01-29-2005, 09:57 AM
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BLONG7
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Will the Owners and the PA ever TRUST each other...

To me this is where all the problems lie...What needs to happen is the owners have to come clean on the numbers...they just have to...I am leaning more towards the owners in this current CBA mess, but I also know the PA has some valid points, and the main one being that they feel there is some $$$$ being hidden, and in some cases they are correct and in some they are probably wrong depending on which markets you look at. So, if they were to be more up front about the revenue and an independant group were hired to Audit, or look at all hockey related revenues(once they were agreeing on what is revenue)could they not form a better partnership with the PA this way? These two groups need each other, yet they do not seem to understand this... Any thoughts...

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01-29-2005, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7
To me this is where all the problems lie...What needs to happen is the owners have to come clean on the numbers...they just have to...I am leaning more towards the owners in this current CBA mess, but I also know the PA has some valid points, and the main one being that they feel there is some $$$$ being hidden, and in some cases they are correct and in some they are probably wrong depending on which markets you look at. So, if they were to be more up front about the revenue and an independant group were hired to Audit, or look at all hockey related revenues(once they were agreeing on what is revenue)could they not form a better partnership with the PA this way? These two groups need each other, yet they do not seem to understand this... Any thoughts...
I think that as long as a new agreement stipulates that a 3rd party auditor is brought in to declare and audit all revenues I think that will be the first step towards building trust for the future.

I belive both "official" offers that were made and posted on the NHL/NHLPA's web sites had this clause in their agreements.

Of course, agreeing to what consititutes revenues is another issue but I'm confident both sides can work through that.

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01-29-2005, 01:23 PM
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04' hockey
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Do you get to look at your boss' books????????????

HARDLY.

Why should the hockey players be any different??????????????

They're EMPLOYEES!


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01-29-2005, 01:25 PM
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BLONG7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04' hockey
Do you get to look at your boss' books????????????

HARDLY.

Why should the hockey players be any different??????????????

They're EMPLOYEES!

Therein lies the problem, they refuse to believe they are just employees... everyone in the world knows they work for someone, except pro athletes, they think they work for themselves and that they are different, what I am saying is there a way to build some trust between these 2 parties that need each other...

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01-29-2005, 01:32 PM
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Polydorus
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Originally Posted by 04' hockey
Do you get to look at your boss' books????????????
You would if you are working on a percentage of the action like a commission.

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01-29-2005, 01:43 PM
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Strazzobosco
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Originally Posted by Polydorus
You would if you are working on a percentage of the action like a commission.
I agree. If you offer 54% of revenues, prove that it IS 54% of revenues. Agree to an audit (there never was one, and I doubt there ever will be). The owners have a bad history of trustworthyness (e.g. NYI, the Rigas, to name a couple).

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01-29-2005, 01:45 PM
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Does the UAW trust GM and Ford? Does the United Steelworkers of America trust U.S. Steel and Bethlehem Steel? Has labor in any industry ever trusted managment? Has managment ever trusted labor?
The answer to all the above is 'No'.

The trust issue is wholly overblown. There's a natural distrust between labor and management and this particular lockout isn't going to solve that. As soon as the players agree to the concept of cost-certainty they will have an opportunity to negotiate the definition of revenues and how those revenues will be allocated. Then they can hire their own auditors to make sure the owners aren't cheating them.

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01-29-2005, 02:41 PM
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How come nobody in the NHLPA camp talks about an audit being done? They have done nothing to try to get the "real" numbers. They know the numbers will show losses so they don't bother.

 
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01-29-2005, 02:43 PM
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leaflover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
Does the UAW trust GM and Ford? Does the United Steelworkers of America trust U.S. Steel and Bethlehem Steel? Has labor in any industry ever trusted managment? Has managment ever trusted labor?
The answer to all the above is 'No'.
Thats an overstatement.
Trust isn't a common issue amongst organized labor and contractors/employers.They often disagree on many issues but trust is rarely one of them.

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01-29-2005, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey_Nut99
How come nobody in the NHLPA camp talks about an audit being done? They have done nothing to try to get the "real" numbers. They know the numbers will show losses so they don't bother.

The players don't want an audit. Someone like D&T, E&Y or PWC is going to come in and analyze the financial statements that the NHL has. They are going to see if the financial statements are prepared in accordance with GAAP. They aren't going to remake them (generally, as this likely wouldn't be a compilation), they are going to attest. Chances are, the NHL books are done in accordance with GAAP and the auditing firm will likely give an unqualified opinion. The players claim the books are prepared in such a way that allows the NHL to underrecognize revenue. I don't think they are claiming they are done wrong, just not the way they want them done.

You could likely get the NHL's books audited and get an unqualified opinion. Then, the NHLPA could recompile the financial statements and have that audited. That too would likely get an unqualified opinion. Both would be acceptable, but the numbers would be different. It likely won't solve anything unless the owners are violating Generally Accepted Accounting Principles.

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