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2012 CBA & Re-alignment: Lockout in Effect. Thanks Gary/Donald! PART II

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Old
11-24-2012, 07:43 AM
  #876
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingGoalie View Post
LeBrun from ESPN is kinda like Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...oser-to-a-deal

all is well, remain calm!
Quote:
Now those moderate players who stuck their neck out in pushing for that might feel beyond enraged at how the league took to their efforts.

"They just united us," one NHL player told me Wednesday night, pointing to the way the league handled the players’ offer.
Does this player mean the league thanking them and then saying it's not enough?

No, no..no..no.no

Yes. unite. again, and then proceed to lose "more" money.

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11-24-2012, 07:49 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by FlightlessBird View Post
Bad apples in every bunch.

Just have to hope too not hear this kind of stupidity from a player in the Pens organization.

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11-24-2012, 09:17 AM
  #878
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At least it's the Caps players that are fighting amongst themselves. That's a positive.

Only thing better would be if Girioux, Hartnell and Bryzgalov got in a media/twitter fight with each other.

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11-24-2012, 09:35 AM
  #879
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the NHLPA is like ****ing Jonestown.

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11-24-2012, 10:00 AM
  #880
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Originally Posted by Sivek View Post

I can only imagine what kind of conversations go on during the NHLPA meetings.

"So do we stick with the Gary thing"
"Hey, how about Puck Gary, get it?"
"****ing awesome Cole, Puck Gary, hahahahahaha"
*in unison*
"PUCK GARY!"

Also imagine they are all wearing ceremonial robes and/or elaborate carved masks to these meetings.
i don't know what's worse, erik cole's 5th grade level wit, or the fact that some nhl players found "puck gary" to be............................funny.

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11-24-2012, 10:04 AM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Bad apples in every bunch.

Just have to hope too not hear this kind of stupidity from a player in the Pens organization.
We already have from Joe Morrow

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11-24-2012, 10:07 AM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
We already have from Joe Morrow
"gary should stick to knitting" vs "puck gary"

who wins the weakest attempt at humor poll??? i'm embarrassed for both guys.

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11-24-2012, 11:51 AM
  #883
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You'd think the PA would have something in place to reprehend players using twitter. Regardless of their tweets being positive or negative, it just doesn't look good on the association's part.

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11-24-2012, 02:20 PM
  #884
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The bottom line is, these guys are hockey players, not political scientists. They have a very simplistic mindset / outlook on things (like a bunch of 18 year olds basically -- they know enough to throw insults and populist theories around) because all they've been doing their whole lives, is playing sports.

They live in a little bubble world where everything is cut and dry, win or lose, simple numbers, fan favorite or whipping boy. In short: most of them don't understand what's going on, regardless of who they're mad at. So far only Adams, Hamrlik and Biz Nasty have said anything that makes you think they might have a sense for the grey areas involved.

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11-24-2012, 03:15 PM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
We already have from Joe Morrow
Forgot about his tweet.

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11-24-2012, 03:35 PM
  #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
You'd think the PA would have something in place to reprehend players using twitter. Regardless of their tweets being positive or negative, it just doesn't look good on the association's part.
Do you really think the PA cares? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually encourage it. The more 'us vs them', winning vs. losing mentality that goes on, the easier it is to keep them unified.

I don't think Don Fehr gives a flying **** if you or I think the statements are disgusting, he just cares about keeping the union together. It's like the opening NHL offer, Paul Kelly did a radio interview and said he wasn't surprised at the offer, it was expected given the history between the NHL and NHLPA, that's how they've negotiated, give a lowball offer, meet in the middle (it's also how the other leagues have negotiated). Kelly mentioned that he thought one of Fehr's job would be to explain to them that it's not personal, that it's not meant as an insult. Do you really think Fehr relayed that message to his members, or do you think he thought, awesome, I'll use this as a rallying cry.

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11-24-2012, 07:19 PM
  #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
In short: most of them don't understand what's going on, regardless of who they're mad at. So far only Adams, Hamrlik and Biz Nasty have said anything that makes you think they might have a sense for the grey areas involved.
Since when does Biz have any sense?




Quote:
Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
Do you really think the PA cares? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually encourage it. The more 'us vs them', winning vs. losing mentality that goes on, the easier it is to keep them unified.

I don't think Don Fehr gives a flying **** if you or I think the statements are disgusting, he just cares about keeping the union together. It's like the opening NHL offer, Paul Kelly did a radio interview and said he wasn't surprised at the offer, it was expected given the history between the NHL and NHLPA, that's how they've negotiated, give a lowball offer, meet in the middle (it's also how the other leagues have negotiated). Kelly mentioned that he thought one of Fehr's job would be to explain to them that it's not personal, that it's not meant as an insult. Do you really think Fehr relayed that message to his members, or do you think he thought, awesome, I'll use this as a rallying cry.
With all the players using "Gary" and not Bettman's last name, one reporter, unfortunately I do not recall who, kinda hinted that they wouldn't be shocked if it was a PA thing. Supposedly the PA denied it, but even if they didn't start it, they're not doing anything to discourage it either.

And totally agree with you on the 2nd part. I've asked several of my friends and family in negotiations with different aspects about the first offer and they've all said that's how it goes, esp when you know what one side wants (in this case everyone knows the league wants 50-50, but what do the players want to get there?).


As for other stories of the day:

Andrew Ladd told Hamrlik & Neuvirth to get their facts straight:
"“Everyone is allowed to state their own opinion, but if you’re going to do that, I would make sure that your facts are straight too....“I would encourage them to check into it a little more,” said Ladd, “be on some calls and get a little more information.”

Interesting considering apparently from Cole's words Hamrlik has been talking to other union members and still apparently doesn't have his facts "straight".

Also, Dave Bolland "apologized" for his RT:

“It was a mistake, I never meant to re-tweet that out,” Bolland told TSN. “I like to re-tweet for a lot of my fans and I just re-tweeted the wrong thing. I feel bad about it.”

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Old
11-24-2012, 07:47 PM
  #888
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The players do this every lockout, at some point they lose all sense of perspective and just start spewing really stupid crap.

It's worse this time because of social media, we've already had a couple Chelios moments, now we just need a Mike Modano, saying the salary cuts are insulting and he'd be left with enough to feed his dog.

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11-24-2012, 07:55 PM
  #889
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James Neal with 4 goals, being boo'ed after each goal. Heh.

Puck Gary chants during the game i believe and "We Want Hockey" chants.

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Old
11-24-2012, 10:52 PM
  #890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
Since when does Biz have any sense?
Beats me but recently:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biz
I [try to avoid] carving anyone. Gary Bettman's just trying to do his job. I know that's against what we're about as far as the players are concerned. But I know he's the messenger. If they're going to pay him $8 million to save them hundreds of millions, well there's a lot of people listening that would do the same job for the money he makes," said Bissonnette.

I'm more upset with a guy like [Boston Bruins owner Jeremy] Jacobs. It just sounds so hypocritical for him to think the last CBA was so awful and how garbage it was, and then go out and sign three of his top guys right before the last one expired.
Not rocket science or anything but at least it shows signs of critical thinking / not being a simpleton by bashing Bettman (i.e. acting like a professional), and by instead calling out one of the problem owners who got us into this mess. Although he should've felt free to mention a-holes like Liarpold as well, who is the perfect example of "my team's in trouble... so naturally I'm going to sign Parise and Suter to obscene contracts because there's a chance I might not have to pay everything I agreed to in order to get them." For whatever Jacobs' dewshery is, his team is a big money team so at least the angle of him signing people to big money deals wouldn't be totally incongruous with his financial situation and complaints.

Comparatively speaking Biz is showing more smarts than most of the players opening their mouths currently.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 11-24-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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11-24-2012, 11:06 PM
  #891
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My problem with that thinking is what are owners supposed to do? They're basically put in a damned if they do and damned if they don't situation. If Boston and MN don't sign FAs then Detroit and the Rangers do and what happens? Also 57% of HRR is more than just player salaries. Plus Parise & Suter knew just as well as anyone else those contracts would be affected by the CBA so its hard to feel sorry for them either.

Also for Biz's information the players have been crying and whining about the last CBA too, but had no problem continuing to want to play under it themselves while "negotiating". Sounds just as hypocritical.


Call me when their critical thinking involves blaming BOTH sides and not with a PA hashtag after it.

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11-24-2012, 11:10 PM
  #892
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I think criticism of the big market owners driving this nonsense is fair and more logical than bashing Bettman (as a player). The problem is, the owners pay their salaries, not Gary Bettman so they're reluctant perhaps to say who they're really pissed at. And even there, not all owners are equal in this scenario. Some are alleged to be much more destructive than others to the process, Jacobs and Snider being the big names I've read most often.

Not saying Biz is 100% right, only that if you're going to speak up at least show some sign you've given it some thought and you're not just going "YAH... Bettman SUCKS dude!" like a frickin HS kid. That's the impression I get from White, Versteeg, et al. Just running their mouths to sound outraged. **** and know something before you speak is all I'm saying. Act like a professional / like you know how to handle yourself in a political situation. Biz and Hamr did, the others didn't. And some of the "tow the union line" guys have stated professional as well, if only in the sense of not bashing Bettman.

We can bash him all we want because we pay the owners and the league is here for our benefit. But as a player you don't cross that boundary unless comments are directed at you specifically or maybe your team.

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11-24-2012, 11:33 PM
  #893
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How can you blame just the big market owners when you have no idea who's on what side? I've seen people say Dolan & Illitch want to play but it is the small market owners who are driving the lockout. Notice how Biz used the one owner who is usually on the league side but no one else? Why not Snider who had no problem trying to add Shea Weber's contract to his already crowded stall or Illitch who was also trying to stuff Parise & Suter into his cap?


And Biz may have been better spoken in that interview, but he's been a PA screaming schill since the beginning. He may look better in comparison to White & Versteeg, but he's no different. Also as a player rep Biz could easily tell the rest of his union to pipe down on the "Gary" stuff, but that doesn't seem to have happened.


Also, if you think Biz being a critical thinker is going to somehow come in and save the day he's been RTing Walsh, believes what Whitney said, and also noted:

“We’re a union. We have to stay together,” Bissonnette said. “If anything, it’s the opposite of greedy. We’re not asking for more money, we’re just asking for what we signed for. At this point, would I take a little bit of a rollback? Absolutely, just to get back playing. But we trust what Fehr’s telling us, and the way he’s leading us. And that’s that.”


Doesn't exactly sound like he's doing all the critical thinking for himself.

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11-24-2012, 11:43 PM
  #894
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Anyway, someone else retweeted this earlier:


NHL's offer on player contracting
November 21, 2012 7:36:03 PM PST
ESPN.com's Pierre LeBrun has learned from a source what the NHL has offered to do on matters of player contracts. Unedited, from source:

On main areas:

(1) offered to give back the year in ELS (NHL has moved from 2+3 to 2 and now back to 3).
(2) dropped/withdrew request for mutuality of Salary Arb rights but maintained request for extra year to Salary Arb, also offered to synchronize timing of Club-elected Salary Arbs as per NHLPA request.
(3) suggested willingness to be flexible of 5% contract variability proposal but maintained request for 5 year term limits on contracts.





linky


Last edited by Homeland Security: 11-25-2012 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Can't post entire article.
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11-25-2012, 01:05 AM
  #895
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Increase in Playoff Pool?

How would they do that, by adding a best of 3 wildcard round 7v10 & 8v9?

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11-25-2012, 11:33 AM
  #896
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The longer the lock out goes on the more Fehr's legacy as a labor negotiator builds. He doesn't give two craps about the game or it's players legacy.

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11-25-2012, 03:04 PM
  #897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
How can you blame just the big market owners when you have no idea who's on what side? I've seen people say Dolan & Illitch want to play but it is the small market owners who are driving the lockout.

And Biz may have been better spoken in that interview, but he's been a PA screaming schill since the beginning.
You're right that I don't really know, so all I can do is take an educated guess based on human trends and behavior in these situations, and commonly it is the haves that always want to avoid sacrifice in order to put the have-nots in a better position. And some of the owners (Jacobs, Snider, Liarpold in particular) have a bad reputation already as being selfish / not focused on the big pictures, so people try and put two and two together. Again not saying Biz is right. Simply stating that I respect the manner in which he's said things vs. several other players who are clearly 100% clueless.

As for being a shill, they're all basically schills until and unless they openly question Fehr so it's a relative thing. I'm not advocating that Biz is some kind of business guru, only that he shows some signs of not being a total idiot (Versteeg, O'Neill, White, Bolland, Morrow etc).

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11-25-2012, 03:26 PM
  #898
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The longer the lock out goes on the more Fehr's legacy as a labor negotiator builds. He doesn't give two craps about the game or it's players legacy.
Amen.

How many professional sports leagues will he ruin before he retires? Christ.

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11-25-2012, 04:16 PM
  #899
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Increase in Playoff Pool?

How would they do that, by adding a best of 3 wildcard round 7v10 & 8v9?
I'd go by divisions: 1 gets a buy while 2 and 3 play, and it can continue that way until the Stanley Cup Final. You'd be adding one round while putting more stock in divisional standings (which should there-by up the intensity in games between those teams) while theoretically only adding 14 days to the season. You're also bringing it close to the original 2/3 ratio that the league had for most of its history.

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11-25-2012, 04:17 PM
  #900
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Amen.

How many professional sports leagues will he ruin before he retires? Christ.
I was wondering the same thing about Bettman.

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